My feelings towards gamers with "Better" conditions AND opinion on piracy

[nikomas1]

There is no place to rent games near were i live, Games are just not rentable here.
Reviews are a good measuement yeah, BUT ill take Project Sylpheed as an example, That game got an avarage of 6 - 7 and i gave it a 9 so most games are of personal taste realy.
Most demos give a realy vauge belife of what to expect, I will admit that some are well done

Edit: Dang you guys beat me to it ^^.

 

[GeeDave]

I'm not entirely sure how much I have to say on this topic... but lets get started.

Okay, you're young... no job, no money. Fair enough. But as pointed out earlier, you don't NEED games. If you simply want to play them, then you've got to get money... or play a bunch of free ones, there are LOADS of free old-school style graphic adventures out there, they could keep me going for weeks on end. And I'm more than sure there are hundreds of thousands of other free games. Legally free, I mean.

I don't condone pirating games, and I'm sick to death of the "I'll buy it if I like it" excuse. Most games have fucking Demos, Get them instead! Teams of developers worked their ass off on that game, so you'll bloody well buy it if you want to play it.

I'm not entirely without sympathy for you though, but there's no pretty way to paint a picture of pirating, if you simply can't afford to pay for the things you want to do... then it's unfair on everyone else if you do them for free. As it's the legitimate people who then suffer... and you'll also fall into that category yourself eventually. Constant DRM's, limited installs and insane security measures will make you wish you had never of stolen. Worse case scenarios are too much pirating = less money for industry which = llower wages, lower wages = unhappy staff = poor work = poor sales = less money = staff are forced to leave = no more games = the end.

 

[nikomas1]

. Constant DRM's, limited installs and insane security measures will make you wish you had never of stolen. Worse case scenarios are too much pirating = less money for industry which = llower wages, lower wages = unhappy staff = poor work = poor sales = less money = staff are forced to leave = no more games = the end.

I get the point and i play a lot of flash games.

On the DRMs, They are expensive useless things, I mean what do they do? Slow down the pirating a day or 2 and not much more. Also most DRMs can hurt the computer badly (Starforce anyone?) and hurt the regular consumer.

Sins of a solar empire didn't use protection and that game have many sales to date.

 

[The Wooster]

. Constant DRM's, limited installs and insane security measures will make you wish you had never of stolen. Worse case scenarios are too much pirating = less money for industry which = llower wages, lower wages = unhappy staff = poor work = poor sales = less money = staff are forced to leave = no more games = the end.

I get the point and i play a lot of flash games.

On the DRMs, They are expensive useless things, I mean what do they do? Slow down the pirating a day or 2 and not much more. Also most DRMs can hurt the computer badly (Starforce anyone?) and hurt the regular consumer.

Sins of a solar empire didn't use protection and that game have many sales to date.

DRM's are actually more problematic for those who've legally purchased the games than those who've pirated it.

On the earlier discussion. You can argue that demos don't show a large portion of the game but I argue that the first 3 or 4 episodes of anime certainly don't show the overall quality of a series.

As for Sins of a Solar empire. It's very easy for (Stardock isn't it?) to do things like that because they're a smaller comapny with less money invested and they don't have to answer to god knows how many investors and a crazy ass board of directors. There's also a question of novelty, the lack of DRM in Sins was a selling point (it was also an awesome game) and people are going to buy it to make a point. But how long will that novelty last? How many games in before we forget the bill of gamer's rights and just start downloading their shit because we're cheap?

I understand companies trying to protect their product. But I can't agree with the way they do it.

 

[DannyDamage]

.........Constant DRM's, limited installs and insane security measures will make you wish you had never of stolen. Worse case scenarios are too much pirating = less money for industry which = llower wages, lower wages = unhappy staff = poor work = poor sales = less money = staff are forced to leave = no more games = the end.

IMO, Companies are getting greedy and all of these "counter piracy measures" are actually pissing people off INTO pirating their games. People pirated before and that will NEVER end. I remember being 5 years old and seeing an older family member copying a SPECTRUM ZX cassette, retro as hell!

There will always be a way to copy things. The companies make more than an adequate amount and they should just be happy that so many people are (possibly) enjoying their games AND they get to make a living doing something they (apparently) love.

 

[nikomas1]

. Constant DRM's, limited installs and insane security measures will make you wish you had never of stolen. Worse case scenarios are too much pirating = less money for industry which = llower wages, lower wages = unhappy staff = poor work = poor sales = less money = staff are forced to leave = no more games = the end.

I get the point and i play a lot of flash games.

On the DRMs, They are expensive useless things, I mean what do they do? Slow down the pirating a day or 2 and not much more. Also most DRMs can hurt the computer badly (Starforce anyone?) and hurt the regular consumer.

Sins of a solar empire didn't use protection and that game have many sales to date.

DRM's are actually more problematic for those who've legally purchased the games than those who've pirated it.

On the earlier discussion. You can argue that demos don't show a large portion of the game but I argue that the first 3 or 4 episodes of anime certainly don't show the overall quality of a series.

As for Sins of a Solar empire. It's very easy for (Stardock isn't it?) to do things like that because they're a smaller comapny with less money invested and they don't have to answer to god knows how many investors and a crazy ass board of directors. There's also a question of novelty the lack of DRM in Sins was a selling point (it was also an awesome game) and people are going to buy it to make a point. But how long will that novelty last? How many games in before we forget the bill of gamer's rights and just start downloading their shit because we're cheap?

I understand companies trying to protect their product. But I can't agree with the way they do it.

*Sigh* Well i won't admit defeat yet but my men are losing morale (The battle in my head).
Sins was a great game indeed and that's why I wen't and bought it. I respect that company for that they did not include DRMs and thats mainly why i bought it, Luckily that time i also had some spare cash.

My friend once told me this.
The DRM is like a locked door, It symbolises that you dont want people to break in, Shure you could use a crowbar (Crack) to get past it but is that right? That one stuck in my head for a while before i could dismiss the thought.

 

[GeeDave]

Sins of a solar empire didn't use protection and that game have many sales to date.

Yes, lots of games have no DRM and sell just fine.

DRM's are actually more problematic for those who've legally purchased the games than those who've pirated it.

Yes, that was my point. That pirating games causes publishers to enforce stricter security measures, which doesn't effect the piraters one little bit, only us... the one's who aren't stealing.

On the earlier discussion. You can argue that demos don't show a large portion of the game

Well that's kind of the point... they're demonstrations, they're supposed to leave you wanting more, why the hell would they offer out a large portion of their game, in a demo? That's just absurd.

Plus, on a technical level... demos actually demonstrate the majority of how the game works. The "demo" stage of a game can often take longer than completing the entire project. As once all the mechanics are in place and working... it's just a case of filling it with content. Which is why developers often *palm-face* when publishers expect a fully working demo before they'll back the project itself.

Edit

IMO, Companies are getting greedy and all of these "counter piracy measures" are actually pissing people off INTO pirating their games. People pirated before and that will NEVER end.

I'm not entirely sure I understand your "companies are getting greedy" thought process, care to expand on that?

And no, DRM's don't force people to pirate, they stop people from buying the game legitimately. Pirate's will pirate regardless... I get that, DRM's are stupid... I get that too. What I don't get... is your point?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Okay with games getting released constantly and everyone talks about how awesome everything is i ofter feel a little "Left out". That game quantity thread made me think even more about it, I have to buy almost all my games used and i always have to trade in my older games for them. While I hear others preorder games several months pre-release.

You could call me yealus and if you do your right, I am indeed. The ONLY game i have ever preorderd was GTA4 and that was only because I could trade some year old 360 games for it.
I still concider myself a gamer but this makes me a little sad when i think about it.

Please dont call me a Whiny kid because im shure others have to feel this way to, And I will still never figure out how people can afford several consoles and a high end PC, Im running on a PC that was "Average" 3 years ago.

This brings me to another question, PIRACY.

Whe all know how widespread this is and if you read the above you will se how I just cant afford PC games. I have a 360 and a "Slow-Arse" PC and when i get enough money together for a game I have to buy a 360 one because thats the only one i know it will work on.

Because of this i have to "Illigaly" download my PC games "And/or" movies. So to me downloading these is justefied, And IF i enjoy the game (And it runs ok) ill buy it, Some examples are C&C decade and CoH (Both games). And don't pull the "It's entertainment so it can't be justefied that way" crap on me.

I should also mention im a complete game addict and it's MY LIFE. So if i took it away it would leave me completly empty.

I would like some other opinions on this, Than you.
- Johan

Just a quick point about something that jumped out at me.

You don't, as you say, HAVE to illegally download games. You just don't. If you didn't, nothing would happen. You would not die. Therefore, you are not, I repeat, NOT, justified in pirating software.

And if your life really would be 100% empty without video games... You should really try some other things.

 

[nikomas1]

Sgt.Pepper
Your talking as if im going to die because of this.

Its more like id have 80% of *Insert interest here* space in my mind.

 

[The Wooster]

Perhaps you should take up reading. You know, that thing with the blocks of pulped dead wood and the squiggles?

I heard you can download books from kazaa.

 

[DannyDamage]

Perhaps you should take up reading. You know, that thing with the blocks of pulped dead wood and the squiggles?

I heard you can download books from kazaa.

Save paper, good idea

 

[nikomas1]

Well I used to read... Untill i exaugsted the local library of the things i found worth reading now im waiting ofr the next book in a series.

Downloading books, Thats over the line even for me im afraid.

 

[GeeDave]

Its more like id have 80% of *Insert interest here* space in my mind.

Then it's probably best you get off games for a long while then! I fear the day when all those who are now 13 - 17 will one day be in a position of authority and power, the "deciders" and workers of our silly little world. We'll be fucked, basically, because they'll all be dribbling from the mouth and craving their next halo fix.

I mean seriously, you claim to get "drug like reactions" from not gaming? You're either lying your ass off, or you've got some SERIOUS issues that need sorting.

I would word this more respectfully, but you've openly admitted to pirating AND tried to defend yourself for doing it, and I happen to be an artist within the games industry, I'm one of the many trying to make a living out of pouring content into these games that people like you steal.

 

[nikomas1]

Its more like id have 80% of *Insert interest here* space in my mind.

Then it's probably best you get off games for a long while then! I fear the day when all those who are now 13 - 17 will one day be in a position of authority and power, the "deciders" and workers of our silly little world. We'll be fucked, basically, because they'll all be dribbling from the mouth and craving their next halo fix.

I mean seriously, you claim to get "drug like reactions" from not gaming? You're either lying your ass off, or you've got some SERIOUS issues that need sorting.

I would word this more respectfully, but you've openly admitted to pirating AND tried to defend yourself for doing it, and I happen to be an artist within the games industry, I'm one of the many trying to make a living out of pouring content into these games that people like you steal.

Huh then I understand why you may be pissed about it, But okay here's the deal.
I openly defended it because I need that confidence for myself mostly.

Also on the reaction thingy I also pointed out that I'm growing out of it. A year ago when it was on it's worst i'd litrearly go beserk (The full extent of the word) but i've Almost grown out of it. I'm still very dependant on computers and games.

Third thing, I often play strategy games, Race games and Arcade/Sim Air combat games, Yeah I know its not the useal gaming interest of a 16 year old but so what? I concider myself more mature than some other people i know (classmates) when it comes to gameing.

 

[GeeDave]

Well when it boils down to it, it's very easy for me to judge. I have a job, I have money, I'm in that comfortable stage of my life where I can afford to do the things I enjoy (even if I do only get about 4 hours of home time* for 5 days of my week), you don't... which is why in my first post in this thread I stated that I was not entirely without sympathy for you.

On the plus side... statistically speaking, the majority of todays piraters will be tomorrows legitimate users. You enjoy games... and there's no doubt in my mind that when you start earning money, you will definitely purchase things yourself. In fact now that i've taken the time to think this one through... piracy due to lack of funds doesn't bother me. It's sort've like drug dealers giving out free samples... and when the people get hooked, make 'em pay.

The big difference being of course, that there is currently no way to make people pay for games. God only knows they're trying... and I would love to ***** slap the folk who come up with the ideas that make it through. Back to the point though... Most young "piraters" will one day get a job, gaming will still be a hobby of theirs... and that's where some of their money will go.

This is all wishful thinking though. And unfortunately a continuous cycle. As someone starts buying all their games... someone else, somewhere else will learn how to torrent and go nuts.

* not including the average 8 hours sleep.

 

[DannyDamage]

Well when it boils down to it, it's very easy for me to judge. I have a job, I have money, I'm in that comfortable stage of my life where I can afford to do the things I enjoy (even if I do only get about 4 hours of home time* for 5 days of my week), you don't... which is why in my first post in this thread I stated that I was not entirely without sympathy for you.

On the plus side... statistically speaking, the majority of todays piraters will be tomorrows legitimate users. You enjoy games... and there's no doubt in my mind that when you start earning money, you will definitely purchase things yourself. In fact now that i've taken the time to think this one through... piracy due to lack of funds doesn't bother me. It's sort've like drug dealers giving out free samples... and when the people get hooked, make 'em pay.

The big difference being of course, that there is currently no way to make people pay for games. God only knows they're trying... and I would love to ***** slap the folk who come up with the ideas that make it through. Back to the point though... Most young "piraters" will one day get a job, gaming will still be a hobby of theirs... and that's where some of their money will go.

This is all wishful thinking though. And unfortunately a continuous cycle. As someone starts buying all their games... someone else, somewhere else will learn how to torrent and go nuts.

* not including the average 8 hours sleep.

And when you get home from your job, sit down with the new full priced game you've bought and find out you've spent your hard earned cash on a piece of shit, you see justice in that?

There's nothing I hate more than spending my cash on something that turns out to be much shitter than expected. And with all the hype surrounding EVERY bit of media (games, film, tv, music) that counts for quite a lot of potential purchases, or "MUST BUYS" as every product claims to be and a lot of potential disappointments.

That's why I try before I buy, and not with demos. If something is genuinely good, then I'll still enjoy it AFTER finishing the download and buying a legit copy and finishing it all over again.

Speaking of those same media, they may as well be forcing you to buy it. Simple psychology (if not further in some cases) followed by beautiful graphics and breasts (in most cases) with some voice over shouting "BUY THIS GAME! THIS MAGAZINE SAID IT'S THE BEST, THAT ONE SAID IT'S FUCKING AWESOME, SOME OF 'EM SAY IT'S BETTER THAN ANYTHING IN THIS WORLD, BUY IT NOW AT THESE PLACES FOR FAR MORE MONEY THAN YOU SHOULD PAY.........GO.......GO........GOOOOOOOO!"

Oh, and drug dealers that give away free samples? That's news to me. Do they go do to door or stick samples on the front of magazines?

 

[nikomas1]

Lets se this has been an interesting tipic for me, I will buy games when i get a job thats for sure. I think piracy is wrong but i cant se any other options exept for the unaceptable one.

Now I better turn of the laptop and sleep... If i fall asleep now ill get the aceptable 4 hours of sleep i need... God morning then!

I wonder if you guys could keep this thread alive for 4 hours?

Edit: oh yeah computers are responseble for me not sleeping well