My feelings towards gamers with "Better" conditions AND opinion on piracy

[Rooster Cogburn]

I don't strongly condemn piracy, but seriously: man up. All these justifications are just that- justifications of what you know is a criminal and morally tenuous act. I have friends who pirate, and I don't like it, but at least they don't pretend they have some contrived right to it.

EDIT: I would add, that I actually sympathize with those who cannot afford to have the things they want. But stealing is not the best way to correct the problem. Can anyone think of a different solution?

 

[mcknee]

If a game is falsely advertised, you have legal recourse to demand refund from the company. If you disagree with the opinions of others concerning the 'awesomeness' of the game, there is no legal, moral, or justifiable reason it should suddenly be free of charge for failing the 'mcknee-level of awesome' requirement.

And when did i say it should be free exactly?? If you actually read my other post further up you will notice i said games should be CHEAPER not free. Get your facts right before you judge please. Cheaper games would stop the majority of people pirating games because if they don't like it, then they're not much out of pocket, giving them less reason to complain about it. This also means the companies would be making more money even though the price is lowered, because more people can afford to buy it. There's always going to be someone who pirates games, but you can't please everyone.

A good example, that's non game related, is adobe products. Do they really need to charge £500+ for the software? I am an artist and i can't afford to shell out that much money for something i can do for free (pencil and paper). If they lowered the price to £100 or so, then i'd buy it tomorrow, but that's never going to happen because big companies like that are all about making money. At the end of the day, more people would buy these products if they were actually affordable, which would actually increase their profit. I don't know anyone who has a legit copy of Photoshop, but i know plenty of people who have downloaded it. Pretty much all of them said it was because it was too expensive.

The same applies to games. It's not like they have to make them super cheap, just don't rip us off. They say you get what you pay for, but in this case you don't, you just end up out of pocket and pissed off.

Plus, what about the parents who have kids demanding all these games? They end up shelling out for a game that keeps their "little darlings" entertained for 5 minutes. Then they want another one. Yes the parent is responsible for buying the games, and it's upto them to do that, but at the end of the day it costs more than it's worth, and this is why the majority of people download games. So in short, lower your prices and lower piracy at the same time(thus gaining more profit in the long run), and it's win win.

 

[nikomas1]

Okay, so you're saying major company A went and bought indy company A, sacked a load of the original team and bastardised the company because of piracy? And not because they saw a great game in their catalogue that they could whore for the next decade or two?

AGAIN (how many times?), I'm not saying everyone should download everything. I'm not even saying people should download independent stuff, I stated that I (personally) see nothing wrong in 'trying before you buy'. Demos aren't always accurate and may only let you play a half decent portion of the game and hide the fact the rest of it is a pile of poop. And we all know what I've said 18 times about reviews in this day and age. It's not about finding a reviewer with "my taste", it's about finding a reviewer that isn't going to whore something so they'll get money, free stuff.....OR FRIENDS ON INTERNET FORUMS!

Payola scandal anyone?

If it were as simple as taking a game back to the store and getting what I paid for it, then it would be a different matter.

"Indy company A" is under no obligation to sell themselves to anybody if they believe they can make money on their own. Why do they do it, then?

So because you've heard of one or more reviewers padding their reviews in return for some sort of reward, all reviewers must be doing so? By that logic: we've heard some people never pay for the games they play, so everyone must be doing it.

 

[DannyDamage]

So because you've heard of one or more reviewers padding their reviews in return for some sort of reward, all reviewers must be doing so? By that logic: we've heard some people never pay for the games they play, so everyone must be doing it.

And you obviously don't have a single burnt CD, Game or DVD in your collection? Of course not.

[/interest in repeating my OPINION to the "perfect gamers"]

Take it easy everyone else

 

[mcknee]

If you can't handle his reply to your post then keep your mouth shut, moron.
You are making excuses for your bad judgement - you want people to take care of you. You're too dumb to make smart purchasing decisions so you think you should be protected from that and that it's the game company's fault that your subjective idea of good doesn't match theres and your inability as a clueless consumer to not listen to marketing lingo.

Again, it's your own fucking fault for spending money on a virtual pet. Read reviews before you buy, rent games, try the demos, stop acting like a tool and then whining like a child because you want trade-backs.

Oh look at how mature we are with the name calling... sigh. And here i am thinking we can have an adult discussion about things.

I don't see why you are attacking me for having an opinion. I am not in any way insulting any of you and i refuse to resort to your mentality.

Yes, i do read reviews before i buy, but most reviews are quite varied. Some people sugarcoat it, others lay into it when it's not deserved. At the end of the day the only way you can know if a game is any good or not is to buy it. So yes it is my fault, but that doesn't mean my opinion isn't valid, and it doesn't give you the right to throw insults around. I would rent games if there was actually some place round here that rents them, but unfortunately there isn't as i live in a small area, we're lucky we even have a Game shop. I am not a moron, a tool or a child thank you and i don't personally download games. All i'm saying is things should be cheaper for what you get. It would help both the gamers and the companies in the long run, and this is why the majority of people download games in the first place.

Can you honestly say you would object to games being cheaper??

 

[nikomas1]

And you obviously don't have a single burnt CD, Game or DVD in your collection? Of course not.

[/interest in repeating my OPINION to the "perfect gamers"]

Take it easy everyone else

So if one person does it, it's okay?

And if I said I don't, you'd somehow believe ME? Fine:

My response to the RIAA suing small families for exhorbitant amounts of cash for one of their kids downloading songs? I stopped buying CDs from any music label represented by the RIAA. Even if a song I hear on the radio by a band sounded good - if they were under one of those record labels, they're not getting my money, and I can live with not listening to whatever else they might have that could be good. I've got my old CDs, and some of those are crap. Still not pirating.

Any games I have that are on non-original media are literally and honestly backups, because I learned I'm an uncoordinated klutz after epic all-nighter play session. Before I learned to back stuff up, (and during times when my damned burner stops working) I've repurchased games that I've damaged. Rock Band being the recent example. Never drum for hours and then hop over to push the eject button on your 360 so you can watch a movie... or at least don't be a klutz like me when you do. Ended up effectively punching the 360 because my arms felt like noodles; the CD flopped around in the 360, and I got the circle-burn effect. I also have quite a collection of crap games. Still not pirating.

I'm not trying to say the industry doesn't need change. I'm just saying that if you practice piracy, accept that you've made that decision and all that it entails, and don't try to justify it as mandated by this or that. Those may be your reasons for doing it, but they're not justifications.

Piracy isn't going to change the system for the better, either. Only people getting through to the game developers that they have got to change, as it's only now (finally!) starting with the music industry.

 

[DeadlyFred]

Point of interjection: you cannot compare the theft of a tangible commodity to downloading bytes off the internet, period. If someone cannot afford to buy a game, then there would be no sale involved in the first place and hence no money lost if that same person were to download the game. If you are downloading things simply to avoid paying for them, that is a different matter entirely. Opting to spend your money predominantly on console titles rather than PC titles simply because pirate copies are so easy to acquire is the point at which software piracy does begin to have a real, negative impact on the industry.

Quite WRONG! Just because he doesn't have the money NOW doesn't mean he won't in the future.

Furthermore, you ARE a whiny little kid. I only had a Super Nintendo when I was younger. I never had a Playstation or a Dreamcast. I got my Nintendo 64 for Christmas from my Financially Secure Father, whom I only saw on Christmas and for two months in the summer. I was raised in a fairly poor family and we NEVER minded only getting a new game every other month or so. YOU are the spoiled one.

The only time we got any help with our gaming habit was when my mom went thirds with my brother and I on the Playstation 2 we got for the house. Other than that, we bought our own games (That started back when I was 10 or so) and accessories. Grow up and realize how good you really have it.

I don't know who the hell you're talking to, son. You must have me mistaken for someone else. I've bought every console/game I own, my plasma tv, my computer and I pay bills/mortgage on my house--by myself with my money. So you need to direct that little tirade where it belongs, not to me. I had both a SNES and a PSX when I was younger, because I bought them, again, with my own money.

 

[nikomas1]

Whoa, everyone, deep breath. It's a hot issue, but lets not start with personal attacks. A little fire and feeling behind your arguments, fine, but no outright flaming (name calling, etc). Don't make me break the glass and dig out the emergency banhammer - I'm a klutz, remember? It'll get messy.

 

[poleboy]

@DeadlyFred: If you step back for a second and look at Mobius' post, I think it's pretty clear that the part that pissed you off was directed at the OP, not you.

I don't pirate anymore... too much fuss, and nothing beats the disappointment of waiting a week to download a cool new game, then end up with some crap that doesn't work or... something worse *shudder*.

I have a pretty low income, but I'm reasonably good with finances so I manage. I hardly ever buy games at release. The initial price for most games is ridiculous, console games in particular. I don't mind waiting a month or two to let the price drop to reasonable levels. There are tons of old games I can pick up cheap/used if I really need a fix.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

EDIT: I would add, that I actually sympathize with those who cannot afford to have the things they want. But stealing is not the best way to correct the problem. Can anyone think of a different solution?

It isn't stealing. It is copyright infringement. I'm tired of people dramatically mischaracterizing this act. When a pirate copies a game, the initial game remanes unscathed and intact, no theft is occurring. The pirate's computer doesn't increase in weight, he is just manipulating the ones and zeros on his hardrive (which he legally purchased) to match the ones and zeros from a game disc... this is ethically wrong but it is still not stealing.

It is the difference between going into the store and taking a candy bar versus going into the store with a replicator and replicating your own candy bar.

 

[mcknee]

Whoa, everyone, deep breath. It's a hot issue, but lets not start with personal attacks. A little fire and feeling behind your arguments, fine, but no outright flaming (name calling, etc). Don't make me break the glass and dig out the emergency banhammer - I'm a klutz, remember? It'll get messy.

Thank you for that I know we had a little dispute earlier but i am not here to offend anyone, just simply to join in the discussion like everyone else. I know i'm new but i'm no troll and therefore do not need to be flamed.

I'm simply just trying to give reasons for why people may download games, and a possible solution for the problem. I don't think it's fair to flame someone who actually buys games in a piracy forum. It's a tad hypocritical if you ask me.

I agree it is a touchy subject and i'm afraid we can't please everyone, so lets try to keep it civil please. We all have our own opinions, right or wrong.

 

[mark_n_b]

Point of interjection: you cannot compare the theft of a tangible commodity to downloading bytes off the internet, period.

Point of interjection: you most certainly can. And you should. I don't disagree with the points you made about piracy, but by being willingly obtuse about it, you just feed fuel to the anti-file sharing crowd.

Fact is games are overpriced, there are many solutions to deal with this and because industry figures refuse to deal with it, piracy is the issue it is. Look at the Spore fiasco.

I accept that piracy is a part of the culture and it is one that needs to be dealt with, but not by making things harder to pirate, by addressing the reasons for piracy. Look at the hundreds of thousands of dollars that was lost by Ubisoft as a result of the Assassin's Creed file sharing incident. That is why piracy is bad. If that happened to the Blaid crewe, the game's industry would have lost company that moved the very foundations of contemporary gaming culture.

Here we have a passionate gamer who is being put into a spot where he cannot participate in the culture because of the inhibiting practices of corporate gaming industry. Because he is pirating, he is ultimately becoming a more significant and passionate gamer pumping more money into the industry as a whole. his years (what three maybe) of purchasing second hand games and downloading software has lead to an increase in the investment in first hand games.

Just keep doing what you're doing, and it's alright to be a little jealous of the spoiled kids, but remember they are the spoiled kids, and I find myself easily able to respect this kid.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

Being 21 and struggling to FIND a damn job in my field, and being behind in videogame purchases for most of my life I can sympathize. It can be very tempting, and very easy to pirate. I may or may not have done it myself on unspecified dates with unspecified titles in and unspecified country... *shifty eyes* but I'd encourage you to resist the temptation. Concerns for the industry aside, which are awefully distant for someone like you or me, the CONSEQUENCES if the legal system plucks you out of the millions on the internets are horrible. And they do have ways of catching you. I once (possibly, maybe *shifty eyes*) downloaded a game and got an E-mail from my ISP telling me they DETECTED a Torrent being transmitted over my connection and if it happened again they'de cut me off. I doubt they had anything concrete or you bet i'd have been getting a legal summons or something, but non the less it made an impression.

I don't like to do internet commerce due to the identity/security risks, so I can only speak from a "Brick and Mortar" experiance, but if you want to get your games cheap/cheaper you should shop around, and don't be impatient. Wait a while- let the lemmings buy the games at 60 bucks (a mistake i've made several times for games I've really wanted), you can wait for it to reduce to half that in cost in just a few months. Also be careful WHAT you buy- I thought I would really enjoy Dragon Quest The Quest for the King XIVW+1 or whatever numeral they're on now, felt it was..eh, mediocre, but FORCED myself to play a while just to justify having bought it. Then I also payed 50 bucks for FF12- also a dissapointing title. Be careful what you shop for and how you shop. Don't base your purchases on previews or hype, wait until the games been out and reviewed, and check the opinions of several different sites before you make a choice to buy.

It can get complicated finding good gems that are hard to find like Okami and Star Wars: Republic Commando, though... But we manage. A Gamestop employee called two different nearbye stores and found me a NEW copy and had the manager reserve it for me- and I didn't even ask him too. Yeah, a Gamestop employee. I was shocked too. I even told him so.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

It isn't stealing. It is copyright infringement. I'm tired of people dramatically mischaracterizing this act. When a pirate copies a game, the initial game remanes unscathed and intact, no theft is occurring. The pirate's computer doesn't increase in weight, he is just manipulating the ones and zeros on his hardrive (which he legally purchased) to match the ones and zeros from a game disc... this is ethically wrong but it is still not stealing.

It is the difference between going into the store and taking a candy bar versus going into the store with a replicator and replicating your own candy bar.

Revised: I think you are splitting hairs. Whether or not the act of pirating a game technically constitutes stealing may be debatable, but the effect is much the same.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

It's stealing. Your depriving the manufacturer of money, so it's theft. Quibble as much as you want it's theft. Just deal with that. I'm not telling you to STOP, but people need to stop deluding themselves.

It's theft, and no court in the land is going to buy your BS argument.

 

[Sayvara]

Please dont call me a Whiny kid because im shure others have to feel this way too

*snip*

I just cant afford PC games. I have a 360 and a "Slow-Arse" PC and when i get enough money together for a game I have to buy a 360 one because thats the only one i know it will work on.

Because of this i have to "Illigaly" download my PC games "And/or" movies. So to me downloading these is justefied, And IF i enjoy the game (And it runs ok) ill buy it, Some examples are C&C decade and CoH (Both games). And don't pull the "It's entertainment so it can't be justefied that way" crap on me.

I should also mention im a complete game addict and it's MY LIFE. So if i took it away it would leave me completly empty.

I would like some other opinions on this, Than you.
- Johan

My opinion is that if you download games without paying for them, then you should have the good graces to keep quiet and not be a whiny kid about it. You don't have any right to demand to be allowed to play games. Playing games is a luxury that is not essential for living and as such none of the poor excuses you posted here justify your pirating.

Let me respond to each argument:

Argument: We should not call you a whiny kid just because other people are whiny kids too.
Response: Just because other people whine doesn't make it any less commendable, nor immune to scorn and ridicule.

Argument: You cannot afford games so it is justifiable for you to download.
Response: No it is not. If you don't have money, you don't get to play. Tough beans. The argument becomes especially hollow when you claim that if you do like the game then you buy it. So suddenly you do afford to pay for them.

Argument: You're a "game addict" so therefore you must be allowed to play games even if you can't afford them or your life would be empty.
Response: Seek professional help. Alternatively: stop abusing the word "addict" and save it for those that do have a pathological condition that justifies the use of the term. Also I'd like to remind you that not even 20 years ago people were perfectly able to fill their lives without the help of computer games. So seek new interrests if you cannot afford your gaming.

/S

 

[nikomas1]

Initial Post

My opinion is that if you download games without paying for them, then you should have the good graces to keep quiet and not be a whiny kid about it. You don't have any right to demand to be allowed to play games. Playing games is a luxury that is not essential for living and as such none of the poor excuses you posted here justify your pirating.

Let me respond to each argument:

Argument: We should not call you a whiny kid just because other people are whiny kids too.
Response: Just because other people whine doesn't make it any less commendable, nor immune to scorn and ridicule.

Argument: You cannot afford games so it is justifiable for you to download.
Response: No it is not. If you don't have money, you don't get to play. Tough beans. The argument becomes especially hollow when you claim that if you do like the game then you buy it. So suddenly you do afford to pay for them.

Argument: You're a "game addict" so therefore you must be allowed to play games even if you can't afford them or your life would be empty.
Response: Seek professional help. Alternatively: stop abusing the word "addict" and save it for those that do have a pathological condition that justifies the use of the term. Also I'd like to remind you that not even 20 years ago people were perfectly able to fill their lives without the help of computer games. So seek new interrests if you cannot afford your gaming.

/S

Let me respond to you. Also I do not belive that I have the "right" to downlaod games but I will still defend my reasons for it.

Argument one: I don't recall me writing "Don't call me whiny 'cause others are whiny".

Argument two: I meant WHEN i could affort a game i would save for that good game that's better than the rest.

Argument three: I consider myself addicted to games in the same meaning as my mother has to smoke several times a day.

On another note I havn't been home for a while and and havn't been able to respond.
I respect your arguments and I listen to what others write instead of blindly sticking to what i belive, But I think it's in my rights to say what I think/belive.

 

[GeeDave]

I consider myself addicted to games in the same meaning as my mother has to smoke several times a day.

Here's a thought... consider yourself not addicted. The problem with being addicted to nicotine (as I am)... is that you will get real withdrawel symptoms when you try to stop, and the temptation to just pick up another one and smoke away becomes immense. Games do not have this kind of power over the human mind and body, it is simply a case of you needing to get outside more, or even doing something else.

When we refer to games as being addictive, we mean that they are enjoyable to play, and hold a good level of replay value. What we don't mean, is that they are literally addicting. If you are getting any sort of withdrawel symptom from not playing games... then you seriously need some fucking help man.

But, as I mentioned previously... I do believe you're lying on this point, or just extremely exagerating the truth.

 

[huntedannoyed]

Clever budgeting helps. Since you are trading in old games, 02yGamefly is a cheap way to go if you don't want to keep the games.

 

[nikomas1]

I consider myself addicted to games in the same meaning as my mother has to smoke several times a day.

Here's a thought... consider yourself not addicted. The problem with being addicted to nicotine (as I am)... is that you will get real withdrawel symptoms when you try to stop, and the temptation to just pick up another one and smoke away becomes immense. Games do not have this kind of power over the human mind and body, it is simply a case of you needing to get outside more, or even doing something else.

When we refer to games as being addictive, we mean that they are enjoyable to play, and hold a good level of replay value. What we don't mean, is that they are literally addicting. If you are getting any sort of withdrawel symptom from not playing games... then you seriously need some fucking help man.

But, as I mentioned previously... I do believe you're lying on this point, or just extremely exagerating the truth.

You want the full explenation? Here you have it.

Now i could go outside more but there's circunstances. Going outside by yourself isn't fun at all, As is playing football against a wall, Again by yourself. Beggining to se pattern here? So I turn to my only way to socialize, The internet and gaming, So when i can't play games or chat, (This forum latley) I fell very depressed and lonley.
That's the long story short I guess.

I could write the long version but it would include to much about my life and you would probarly be bored.