My Issue with Dragon Shouts in Skyrim

[Odd Water]

The concept of the Shout power is something so hard wired into being the Dragonborn that it plays a big part of who and what you are. You have the soul of a dragon. But what does that do for you as the player? Are you stronger and tougher? Faster or more agile? More magically powerful? No, they left those ideas to the side to allow players the freedom to play the type of character they wished, which I agree with was a good move. So many games attribute being 'part dragon' as being something along those lines. What being the Dovahkiin means you can naturally use the power of dragon Shouts, speaking words in the dragon tongue that are so powerful, they actually effect the physical world and reality. Which is a great concept and idea. There are however two specifics to this idea that don't sit well with me.

1. The main problem I have with the shouts is that, other then a few plot points in story, they don't change the game or make an impact. The concept of the Dragonborn and his Shouts are woven together in the story. As you are one, you can do the other. Or since you can naturally do one, you are the other. But really in the course of game play, they don't matter if you have them or not (except like I said a few plot points), or if you use them or not. You can still go through the whole game as a Warrior, Sneak-thief, Mage, or any combination of skills you want. It reminds me of the game Bioshock. All through the game they drill it into your head that Plasmids and Adam were super important, and frankly, the biggest thing about the game and game play. Yet you can still go through the whole game using shotguns and such and it doesn't matter a bit. My point is, like in Bioshock with the plasmids, the Shouts in Skyrim were/are pretty hyped up to mean something, to really matter. But when you play the game, they really don't effect game play at all and don't seem to matter.

2. The dragon shouts were created by dragons, for them to use. (Except of course the one specific shout later in story, not getting into that.) So the idea is, if they created them, they were made for their use in mind. My issue with this is some of the shouts don't make much sense for the dragons to use or create. Such as the shout that speed up the attacks of your weapons. Why would dragons create this shout when they don't use weapons? Or the shouts that draw animals to fight for you, or calm animals in a fight. I really can't think why a huge, powerful dragon would make the 'summon animal allies' shout. (My two guesses are it was made for small young dragons for playthings or easy food, or some dragon made this shout to watch the cute animals throw themselves at foes and get slaughtered, for amusement.) The throwing your voice shout also seems not to make sense to me. Again, why does a huge powerful dragon, need to trick foes into thinking he is thirty yards off to the side? Once more, all I can think of is it was made for amusement to mess with the 'lesser' mortal beings.

Now the shout I really have a problem with is the Calm Animals Shout. But also I find it the most puzzling and hilarious concept of all the shouts. These are words of power in the dragon tongue, that are roared/yelled out in order to work. Oh this wolf here is scratching and biting at his foot. What does he do? Swivels his head down to him and bellows out a roar that basically says "CALM THE FUCK DOWN!" and then the wolf hunkers down to the ground and whimpers or rolls over on his back. I'm not against this shout in use, though I don't see why a dragon would bother creating it and not just eating the animal, its just the concept of the mental image of it being used cracks me up.

 

[jthwilliams]

The concept of the Shout power is something so hard wired into being the Dragonborn that it plays a big part of who and what you are. You have the soul of a dragon. But what does that do for you as the player? Are you stronger and tougher? Faster or more agile? More magically powerful? No, they left those ideas to the side to allow players the freedom to play the type of character they wished, which I agree with was a good move. So many games attribute being 'part dragon' as being something along those lines. What being the Dovahkiin means you can naturally use the power of dragon Shouts, speaking words in the dragon tongue that are so powerful, they actually effect the physical world and reality. Which is a great concept and idea. There are however two specifics to this idea that don't sit well with me.

1. The main problem I have with the shouts is that, other then a few plot points in story, they don't change the game or make an impact. The concept of the Dragonborn and his Shouts are woven together in the story. As you are one, you can do the other. Or since you can naturally do one, you are the other. But really in the course of game play, they don't matter if you have them or not (except like I said a few plot points), or if you use them or not. You can still go through the whole game as a Warrior, Sneak-thief, Mage, or any combination of skills you want. It reminds me of the game Bioshock. All through the game they drill it into your head that Plasmids and Adam were super important, and frankly, the biggest thing about the game and game play. Yet you can still go through the whole game using shotguns and such and it doesn't matter a bit. My point is, like in Bioshock with the plasmids, the Shouts in Skyrim were/are pretty hyped up to mean something, to really matter. But when you play the game, they really don't effect game play at all and don't seem to matter.

2. The dragon shouts were created by dragons, for them to use. (Except of course the one specific shout later in story, not getting into that.) So the idea is, if they created them, they were made for their use in mind. My issue with this is some of the shouts don't make much sense for the dragons to use or create. Such as the shout that speed up the attacks of your weapons. Why would dragons create this shout when they don't use weapons? Or the shouts that draw animals to fight for you, or calm animals in a fight. I really can't think why a huge, powerful dragon would make the 'summon animal allies' shout. (My two guesses are it was made for small young dragons for playthings or easy food, or some dragon made this shout to watch the cute animals throw themselves at foes and get slaughtered, for amusement.) The throwing your voice shout also seems not to make sense to me. Again, why does a huge powerful dragon, need to trick foes into thinking he is thirty yards off to the side? Once more, all I can think of is it was made for amusement to mess with the 'lesser' mortal beings.

Now the shout I really have a problem with is the Calm Animals Shout. But also I find it the most puzzling and hilarious concept of all the shouts. These are words of power in the dragon tongue, that are roared/yelled out in order to work. Oh this wolf here is scratching and biting at his foot. What does he do? Swivels his head down to him and bellows out a roar that basically says "CALM THE FUCK DOWN!" and then the wolf hunkers down to the ground and whimpers or rolls over on his back. I'm not against this shout in use, though I don't see why a dragon would bother creating it and not just eating the animal, its just the concept of the mental image of it being used cracks me up.

1. I don't think the shouts make you special so much as the abiity to learn them by eating a dragons soul as a clear indicator. Thinking of it as a less disturbing version of Stigmata. The fact that you can do this means that the gods have selected you, not that it will give you anything special itself.

Also the reason it does make you special is that anyone other than you kills a dragon, it will just come back, If you kill a dragon, it is now trapped as part of you and will never come back.


2. This is only a probelm if you think dragon shouts are hard work for dragons. The way I read it was that dragon shouting is more or less just knowing the dragon language and putting your will into it. Hard for humans but not for dragons.

 

[skywolfblue]

1. The main problem I have with the shouts is that, other then a few plot points in story, they don't change the game or make an impact. The concept of the Dragonborn and his Shouts are woven together in the story. As you are one, you can do the other. Or since you can naturally do one, you are the other. But really in the course of game play, they don't matter if you have them or not (except like I said a few plot points), or if you use them or not. You can still go through the whole game as a Warrior, Sneak-thief, Mage, or any combination of skills you want. It reminds me of the game Bioshock. All through the game they drill it into your head that Plasmids and Adam were super important, and frankly, the biggest thing about the game and game play. Yet you can still go through the whole game using shotguns and such and it doesn't matter a bit. My point is, like in Bioshock with the plasmids, the Shouts in Skyrim were/are pretty hyped up to mean something, to really matter. But when you play the game, they really don't effect game play at all and don't seem to matter.

They do make an "Impact", they're pretty darn handy, sure you *could* go through the game without using plasmids or shouts, but you'd be a LOT worse off. They DO affect your play, pretty significantly. Personally I think it's a good thing that the game allows you to choose how you play rather then requiring you to have a specific shout to win (yes, there are some main quests that require that, and it's ok because it's only a handful of missions).

2. The dragon shouts were created by dragons, for them to use. (Except of course the one specific shout later in story, not getting into that.) So the idea is, if they created them, they were made for their use in mind. My issue with this is some of the shouts don't make much sense for the dragons to use or create. Such as the shout that speed up the attacks of your weapons. Why would dragons create this shout when they don't use weapons? Or the shouts that draw animals to fight for you, or calm animals in a fight. I really can't think why a huge, powerful dragon would make the 'summon animal allies' shout. (My two guesses are it was made for small young dragons for playthings or easy food, or some dragon made this shout to watch the cute animals throw themselves at foes and get slaughtered, for amusement.) The throwing your voice shout also seems not to make sense to me. Again, why does a huge powerful dragon, need to trick foes into thinking he is thirty yards off to the side? Once more, all I can think of is it was made for amusement to mess with the 'lesser' mortal beings.

Spoiler

Not all shouts were created by the dragons. Dragonrend was created by mortals, so why shouldn't the "speed up weapons" one have been made by humans as well?

 

[Odd Water]

Spoiler

Not all shouts were created by the dragons. Dragonrend was created by mortals, so why shouldn't the "speed up weapons" one have been made by humans as well?

As I said, I know that one was made by humans. And the game tells you it is the only one made by humans. So the question on the weapons one still stands to me.

 

[Phlakes]

Because it's a game. It's the same reason why you can take ten arrows to the face and carry ten sets of armor in your pockets.

 

[Delta7]

For #2, the way I understand it, shouts are just collections of draconic words. They may not have ever used the fast weapon shout themselves, but they had words for "fast", "weapon" or whatever, and then mortals can use those words in shouts of their own design. I may be wrong, but it sounded like Dragonrend was unique because it's words were "Mortal, finite, temporary", words the immortal dragons had no need for. Basically, any shouter could turn any three words into a shout, but the ancient nords who made dragonrend were the special because they also made new words.

 

[Slycne]

Spoiler

Not all shouts were created by the dragons. Dragonrend was created by mortals, so why shouldn't the "speed up weapons" one have been made by humans as well?

As I said, I know that one was made by humans. And the game tells you it is the only one made by humans. So the question on the weapons one still stands to me.

As much as lore and game mechanics generally fit together, they are always going to butt heads a little and I think this is one of those areas. Being able to slash more quickly with its claw "weapons" would be pretty effective for a dragon.

 

[DarkRyter]

Elemental Fury likely speeds up their claw strikes and bites and whatnot.

Dragons didn't think up "calm animals" on purpose. They just happened to have words for calm and words for animal (these aren't the words but go along with it) and saying them did the effect.

I use shouts all the time. You are just plain wrong on that part.

 

[Lionsfan]

Because it's a game. It's the same reason why you can take ten arrows to the face and carry ten sets of armor in your pockets.

Or if you're super awesome you can carry Eleven sets of armor in your pockets.

OT: I would imagine that it's one of the Shouts that would left out in later retellings of the Lore, just Gameplay stuff to make it more interesting/give you a reason to kill the Dragons

 

[Kyle Tracz]

With the speed up weapons it speeds up the speed of your punches so it could be used by dragons and there are 8 dragon priests who were people who made and used shouts and they served under the leader dragon

 

[Furioso]

2. The dragon shouts were created by dragons, for them to use. (Except of course the one specific shout later in story, not getting into that.) So the idea is, if they created them, they were made for their use in mind. My issue with this is some of the shouts don't make much sense for the dragons to use or create. Such as the shout that speed up the attacks of your weapons. Why would dragons create this shout when they don't use weapons? Or the shouts that draw animals to fight for you, or calm animals in a fight. I really can't think why a huge, powerful dragon would make the 'summon animal allies' shout. (My two guesses are it was made for small young dragons for playthings or easy food, or some dragon made this shout to watch the cute animals throw themselves at foes and get slaughtered, for amusement.) The throwing your voice shout also seems not to make sense to me. Again, why does a huge powerful dragon, need to trick foes into thinking he is thirty yards off to the side? Once more, all I can think of is it was made for amusement to mess with the 'lesser' mortal beings.

It's their language, anyone can learn a new language, as evident by the Draugr, but they clearly didn't have the power to use them effectively, or didn't live long enough to learn how, now the language is almost lost, and only the Greybeards can use them well, after training for their whole lives mind you, and you because your special. And it could be argued that the speed up your weapons shout could speed up their biting or clawing, those teeth/claws can easily be classified as weapons. You make a good guess for the summon animals. Throwing your voice can be explained too, if a dragon wanted to sneak attack another dragon, use throw your voice, he turns to roar at the noise, and the dragon bites his neck from behind, the sneaky bastard. Finally, the calm animals could be explained if a dragon just wanted to get some sleep, wasn't hungry, and didn't feel like fighting a bunch of pissed off bears.

All in all I think your reading waaaaay to far into it

 

[The_Blue_Rider]

Well shouts are essentially just how dragons regularly talk, i mean when you look at the shouts theyre fairly common words, all elemental fury means is Air, Battle, and Grace, its not unthinkable that people could just piece it together from those words

 

[Sudenak]

Because it's a game. It's the same reason why you can take ten arrows to the face and carry ten sets of armor in your pockets.

Some day, the excuse of "because it's a game" won't work to cover up a plot point not meshing with gameplay. Getting real sick of seeing that tossed in to ignore a legitimate question.

From my gameplay experience, shouts aren't that strong and don't really deter people. In the cutscenes people lose their minds if they find out you're dragonborn. Why is it, then, that shouting doesn't invoke any kind of reaction during gameplay? It's just another skill to use, and using it on anyone or anything doesn't make them give pause. Considering how hyped it was, you'd think it'd be more finely meshed between the story and gameplay. Instead, as usual, the story is distantly peering over at the gameplay.

And if shouts were so powerful, then everyone's strategy would revolve around them. It'd be truly interesting if you could use them to change the tide of a battle. Instead, I never use them because they just don't mesh with my gameplay style.

So, I don't know. I wasn't very hyped about them to begin with, so I wasn't very disappointed when they weren't exciting. I mostly just wanted to tell Phlakes that using that excuse for why a game is divorced of its own story really needs to stop.

 

[Antari]

Shouts are basically a horrific attempt to repair the damage they did to the magic/enchanting system from my point of view.

 

[SLy AsymMetrY]

Perhaps those 'odd' shouts are merely the Dragonborns' human translation of dragon language and not how the dragons use those Shouts themselves.

 

[Raddra]

My main issue with shouts is that they mostly feel too weak and the delay between uses is too long.

So I really hardly ever use them. Which feels kind of wrong considering.

 

[EHKOS]

I feel they're weak. A riften guard can stand up to my fully upgraded flame shout...

 

[aristos_achaion]

1. Well, it only makes sense gameplay-wise that the Shouts not be 100% necessary...otherwise, it wouldn't matter what class you played as, you'd just be Shouting your way through the game. But if you find yourself never using your Shouts...well, you're really ignoring a pretty useful aspect of the game. I start almost any fight with a Marked For Death shout, and a Storm Call shout can turn a desperate, outmanned struggle into a hilarious rout.

2. As for Shouts dragons can't use,

Spoiler: major plot spoilers

the Dragonrend shout is said to be the first Shout created by men rather than dragons...since men did that, there's no reason they couldn't have made more Shouts, e.g., for weapon-speed. Or maybe the Dragons meant it for biting or wing-slashing (since it works on unarmed combat as well), and humans just preempted it for weapons.

Throw Voice...well, if you haven't noticed, it can be pretty hard to see dragons up in the sky...their roars are really the best way to know they're there. Maybe dragons used Throw Voice to their tactical advantage, leading human rebels into traps and ambushes. Or used it to make humans think they were surrounded or outnumbered, by throwing their voices to all sides.

As for Calm Animal...have you *seen* what a mammoth can do to a dragon?

 

[anthony87]

Look at it this way, if a dragon tells you in a firm manner to calm the fuck down, you're gonna calm the fuck down.

Besides it's mentioned that to the dragons, shouting is basically the same thing as talking so it stands to reason that they have a shout for....everything.

ROS YO DAN!=BAM! Instant French Toast!

 

[Phlakes]

Because it's a game. It's the same reason why you can take ten arrows to the face and carry ten sets of armor in your pockets.

Some day, the excuse of "because it's a game" won't work to cover up a plot point not meshing with gameplay. Getting real sick of seeing that tossed in to ignore a legitimate question... I mostly just wanted to tell Phlakes that using that excuse for why a game is divorced of its own story really needs to stop.

So, you'd rather have the world be actual scale and take hours to walk between cities, and have one hit from any weapon injure or cripple you, too? Games =/= realism, even a game's internal realism. Because if games were completely realistic, they would be shit.

It's not an excuse. It's one of the most basic elements of game design.