My Issue with Dragon Shouts in Skyrim

[ediblemitten]

Dragons have claws and can bite as well... I see no issue with a shout that sped up their clawing or biting speed. Also, you've seen the issues a single dragon can have against a few bears. Why is a shout that calms nature at all farfetched?

 

[RedDeadFred]

The reason Dragon Shouts are only really essential to the main quest and not for success in the game in general is because a lot of people like to ignore the main quest and go off and do their own thing. This has been a staple of the series for a long time and the developers didn't want to take that away.

 

[RedDeadFred]

Because it's a game. It's the same reason why you can take ten arrows to the face and carry ten sets of armor in your pockets.

Some day, the excuse of "because it's a game" won't work to cover up a plot point not meshing with gameplay. Getting real sick of seeing that tossed in to ignore a legitimate question.

At some point there has to be a line drawn here. It's called "Gameplay and Story Segregation [http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mCUx43F96Gc]", at least by the TVTropes crowd. Granted, it can overstep a certain line, but that line is very thin and definitely undefinable. It's different for every game. You can't have every single cutscene and gameplay scenario perfectly mesh, which is why in Mass Effect cutscenes everything takes one bullet and gameplay sometimes requires a few clips.

Exactly!
It's like in Starcraft II when in the gameplay, 20ish marines can bring down a battle cruiser but in the actual lore they wouldn't even make a scratch and would all be killed almost instantly.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

Now the shout I really have a problem with is the Calm Animals Shout.

How about this?

Dragon: I'm hungry. Oh look! A bunch of bears! This will do nicely!

Bears: RAWR!! I WONT LET YOU EAT ME!!!

Dragon: ...You know what? I'm too hungry for this shit. *CALM ANIMAL!*

Bear: *wimper*

Dragon: *EASY LUNCH, didn't even need to break a sweat*

 

[Torrasque]

1. The main problem I have with the shouts is that, other then a few plot points in story, they don't change the game or make an impact. The concept of the Dragonborn and his Shouts are woven together in the story. As you are one, you can do the other. Or since you can naturally do one, you are the other. But really in the course of game play, they don't matter if you have them or not (except like I said a few plot points), or if you use them or not. You can still go through the whole game as a Warrior, Sneak-thief, Mage, or any combination of skills you want. It reminds me of the game Bioshock. All through the game they drill it into your head that Plasmids and Adam were super important, and frankly, the biggest thing about the game and game play. Yet you can still go through the whole game using shotguns and such and it doesn't matter a bit. My point is, like in Bioshock with the plasmids, the Shouts in Skyrim were/are pretty hyped up to mean something, to really matter. But when you play the game, they really don't effect game play at all and don't seem to matter.

2. The dragon shouts were created by dragons, for them to use. (Except of course the one specific shout later in story, not getting into that.) So the idea is, if they created them, they were made for their use in mind. My issue with this is some of the shouts don't make much sense for the dragons to use or create. Such as the shout that speed up the attacks of your weapons. Why would dragons create this shout when they don't use weapons? Or the shouts that draw animals to fight for you, or calm animals in a fight. I really can't think why a huge, powerful dragon would make the 'summon animal allies' shout. (My two guesses are it was made for small young dragons for playthings or easy food, or some dragon made this shout to watch the cute animals throw themselves at foes and get slaughtered, for amusement.) The throwing your voice shout also seems not to make sense to me. Again, why does a huge powerful dragon, need to trick foes into thinking he is thirty yards off to the side? Once more, all I can think of is it was made for amusement to mess with the 'lesser' mortal beings.

Now the shout I really have a problem with is the Calm Animals Shout. But also I find it the most puzzling and hilarious concept of all the shouts. These are words of power in the dragon tongue, that are roared/yelled out in order to work. Oh this wolf here is scratching and biting at his foot. What does he do? Swivels his head down to him and bellows out a roar that basically says "CALM THE FUCK DOWN!" and then the wolf hunkers down to the ground and whimpers or rolls over on his back. I'm not against this shout in use, though I don't see why a dragon would bother creating it and not just eating the animal, its just the concept of the mental image of it being used cracks me up.

You have three big misconceptions about the shouts in Skyrim.
1. The shouts are another ability you have that make the game a bit easier and fun to play. Skyrim wouldn't be able to be big and open-ended if it forced you to use shouts. If it did force you to use shouts (for example, you can only damage dragons with shouts), then they would have to really buff shouts, and that would throw out the balancing of the game.
Shouts are another tool in your arsenal, and while it would be neat for shouts to be more significant than they are, it is not realistic in any game for them to be.

2. The shouts were NOT created by dragons. Shouts are words of power spoken in the dragon language, which makes the shouts. These words of power are discovered/invented by humans (the game is kind of unclear about that). You are thinking dragons say FUS ROH DAH and blast shit apart, when they don't. Dragons just speak or blow fire, and that blasts shit apart. While a dragon is certainly capable of saying FUS ROH DAH, it is not reasonable.

3. You are Dragonborn because you are the only person that can kill dragons permanently--absorbing their souls--and you have a natural gift of shouts. The Graybears are normal people that spend years mastering their shouts, but you can walk in there and do something in 5 minutes that took them 5 years. You are not Dragonborn because you can shout, you are Dragonborn because you can permanently kill dragons, and have a natural aptitude for shouting. People just recognize you as the Dragonborn because of your ability to shout since it is the easiest test (like gearscore in WoW).

I hope that cures your confusion.

 

[LooK iTz Jinjo]

I can see where you're coming from with your first point, but in an open world RPG generally it is best if you don't force a player to play in a certain way, that's the beauty of Skyrim. Whereas in a platformer or Adventure game like a Banjo-Kazooie or Zelda, you learn a new ability or gain a new item etc and then suddenly the entire area, dungeon, level, world etc seems to revolve around using that one new ability or item. Skyrim doesn't fall into this trap and the game is better for it allowing the player to play the game in any way they chose.

As for you're second point, honestly you're just over thinking something that isn't even an issue.

 

[StriderShinryu]

I think one aspect that has to be considered is that the dragons were once revered by some as gods, perhaps indicating that they aren't/weren't just the sort of mindless beasts you typically see in the game. Maybe it's my DragonLance fanboy showing, but I can easily see uses intelligent dragons would have for things like throwing their voice, forcing calm and controlling animals. Heck, you could even take it a step further and look at those shouts as watered down or humanized versions of silent communication with someone who doesn't speak your language, forcing weaker minded enemies to lay down their arms and mind control over lesser creatures (which, for a dragon, would mean humans and not just animals). These are definitely the sort of thing an intelligent god like creature would make excellent use of.

 

[King of the Sandbox]

I feel they're weak. A riften guard can stand up to my fully upgraded flame shout...

I've seen Riften guards stand up to a dragons breath weapon, soooooo.... yeah.

 

[ThisJustin]

2. The dragon shouts were created by dragons, for them to use. (Except of course the one specific shout later in story, not getting into that.) So the idea is, if they created them, they were made for their use in mind. My issue with this is some of the shouts don't make much sense for the dragons to use or create. Such as the shout that speed up the attacks of your weapons. Why would dragons create this shout when they don't use weapons? Or the shouts that draw animals to fight for you, or calm animals in a fight. I really can't think why a huge, powerful dragon would make the 'summon animal allies' shout. (My two guesses are it was made for small young dragons for playthings or easy food, or some dragon made this shout to watch the cute animals throw themselves at foes and get slaughtered, for amusement.) The throwing your voice shout also seems not to make sense to me. Again, why does a huge powerful dragon, need to trick foes into thinking he is thirty yards off to the side? Once more, all I can think of is it was made for amusement to mess with the 'lesser' mortal beings.

Now the shout I really have a problem with is the Calm Animals Shout. But also I find it the most puzzling and hilarious concept of all the shouts. These are words of power in the dragon tongue, that are roared/yelled out in order to work. Oh this wolf here is scratching and biting at his foot. What does he do? Swivels his head down to him and bellows out a roar that basically says "CALM THE FUCK DOWN!" and then the wolf hunkers down to the ground and whimpers or rolls over on his back. I'm not against this shout in use, though I don't see why a dragon would bother creating it and not just eating the animal, its just the concept of the mental image of it being used cracks me up.

It is actually said that the mortals, or human type characters created more than the Dragonrend shout. Become Ethereal you are told was also created by mortals because the Dragons don't have use for it, they are immortal. It's also suggested that the shouts that don't make sense for dragons were made by mortals.

 

[DustyDrB]

Though I do agree that you are over-thinking this, it was an entertaining read. "CALM THE FUCK DOWN" made me laugh.

Some shouts are fantastic, though. My character is a hunter/survivalist type who uses no magic. Aura Whisper is the win button for me, as I sneak attack crit EVERYTHING.

 

[PinkiePyro]

perhaps the weapon one works differently for dragons

(kind how the pokemon works different for ghost types then all other types perhaps)

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

Playing on higher difficulties make shouts mean the world. I don't know what I would do without ice form and marked for death.

Edit: Dragonrend is only specified as the first human made shout, people have had a long time to invent new ones.

 

[brunothepig]

The dragons don't create the shouts, they speak words in their language and imbue them with their power. No, they would never, ever have the need to calm animals. But they would need words for animal and calm etc. The Dragonborn has to hunt down the words, then absorb the soul of a dragon so he/she can use the power of a dragon, shaping it's power with that word. Or something, the game is a little vague about it but that was my interpretation.

It would probably be a lot easier for the Dragonborn if the Greybeards would just teach them the language, but they're douchebags like that. I was disappointed, first because the shouts aren't all that special, more so because I was hoping you'd have to figure out the combination of words, so one word could be used in more than one shout. So yeah, I don't use many more shouts than Unrelenting Force and Throw Voice for stealthing.

 

[TheEndlessSleep]

1. snip

On higher difficulties I certainly find them necessary - and even on lower difficulties they add a new dimension to combat.

I certainly wouldn't sniff at the ability to breath fire or blast my enemies off of cliffs by shouting...

2. snip

You're treating this like the words which comprise the shouts in Skyrim add up to ALL of the words in the dragon language... they don't.

This is a language, not just a set of spells - The langauge is just so awesome that its words have magical effects.

If you think about it, anybody with knowledge of the dragon langauge could make any shout they wanted to have any effect - It's not simply limited to those few that are included in the game.

 

[SidingWithTheEnemy]

Yes, pretty much all important stuff has been said.

I wonder though, why those dragons don't use the "Slow Time" or "Become Etheral" shout more often. Would make them quite fearsome and percieved like:

"Oh crap now he is now 5 times as fast and it hurts!"
or
"Waah I can't kill it, it's invunerable!"

Do dragons suffer from speech impediment, all they normally use is Yol and Fo even the Draugr Overlords know their vocabulary better?

 

[Jandau]

What I don't like about Shouts is how they gradually get overshadowed by everything else in terms of usefulness. I'm level 50 now and any of the damage dealing Shouts are just a waste of time. In fact, all the Shouts are a waste of time. This isn't just a problem with Shouts, it's a general problem with the game and how it handles scaling (or lack of it).

Some things scale VERY well, like Melee combat being simultaneously boosted by several skills at the same time (Smithing, One/Two-Handed, Enchanting, Alchemy), allowing it to go to insane power levels.

On the other hand, some things scale far less, like Destruction Magic damage, which is only boosted through a few Perks and then stays the same, meaning that it peaks far sooner and then continues to gradually grow insignificant.

Some things don't scale at all, like Shouts. Sure, you can learn extra Words for each Shout, but each additional Word prolongs the Cooldown, meaning that it's an even trade at best. And at high levels, even a 3 Word Frost Shout is barly a scratch to even regular enemies.

All in all, Skyrim is quite poorly balanced and that's one of the biggest changes I'm expecting from the mods. Bethesda really screwed it up in that regard and it's quite annoying...

 

[The Heik]

Spoiler

Not all shouts were created by the dragons. Dragonrend was created by mortals, so why shouldn't the "speed up weapons" one have been made by humans as well?

As I said, I know that one was made by humans. And the game tells you it is the only one made by humans. So the question on the weapons one still stands to me.

Well it's more that the "Elemental Fury" Shout speeds up the speed of your attack, not the speed of your weapon. Having a bite or claw attack go faster than normal is a pretty good thing against more nimble opponents.

More so, Dragon Shouts are simply combinations of the draconic language, so the words themselves exist outsides of the shouts they are used in. Until they are focused into a shout they're just standard vocabulary.

However, this by no stertch means that any of these shouts are at all useless to a Dragon. In fact I can find a use for pretty much every dragon shout that there is in the game. Allow me to demonstrate:

Animal Allegiance: While Dragons are unmatched predators, they will still be confounded by certain situations, such as prey running into a thick forest, or being particularly maneuverable (ie being able to reverse direction quickly, which for a big old dragon is bit harder), so sometimes it's just simpler to call the animal to you and eat them while they're docile.

Aura Whisper: Some creatures (eg mud crabs) are more difficult to detect than others, so being able to sniff them out via their life force is far easier than by the old-fashioned method.

Become Ethereal: It's probable that Dragons often get in fights with one another. And it's probably that sometimes one gets knocked out of the air, so being able to hit the ground, yet not get hurt would be a useful thing indeed.

Clear Skies: Flight is a hazardous enough thing without bad weather to foul it up, and even though Dragons are incredibly powerful, smacking into a mountain is certainly not going to end well for the Dragon. Clearing up the weather means the best possible flying conditions, hence the best flight.

Disarm: Dragons are powerful, but they've learned that swords and the like can still hurt them. Being able to disarm their opponents at worst gives them a few seconds to gather themselves or strike in a few strategic hits, and at best gets rid of the weapons for good.

Dismay: Having to fight multiple enemies is annoying, even for a Dragon. Making the more cowardly ones run away in fear not only clears up the battlefield, but adds to the Dragon's fear factor, which frankly is more valuable than Fire Breath in terms of dominance.

Fire Breath: Lights things on fire. Enough said

Frost Breath: Polar opposite of Fire Breath. Still as dangerous.

Ice Form: Stops smaller enemies in their tracks, and potentially freezes bigger opponents, which gives the Dragons time to prepare a more powerful attack.

Kyne's Peace: Dragons need to land at some point. And being blind-sided by a pack of wolves or attacked by a mammoth can still hurt them, even if it's not necessarily deadly. Being able to placate them gives the Dragon time to either take off or hit them while they're cowed.

Marked for Death: The bigger the enemy, the more important the little advantages matter. Being able to weaken a more powerful enemy such as a giant or rival dragon can mean a world of difference, often the difference between life and death (which for a dragon doesn't mean as much, but the assumption here is that defeat makes the Dragon lose influence and rank, which to an immortal superbeing is an undesirable thing)

Slow Time: If a dragon were to ever get knocked down or similarly discombobulated, slowing time gives it some breathing room to figure out what to do next.

Storm Call: Sometimes a Dragon will get bushwacked on the ground by another Dragon, and height is a big advantage is air combat. Storm Call forces to the rival Dovah to dodge the lightning and use the Clear Skies Shout, giving the grounded Dragon time to get off the ground and gain some altitude.

Throw Voice: Dragons are big. Often too big to fit into smaller spaces such as caves. So mortals often hide there to escape the Dragon threat. The only way to get the mortals out is to lure them out, and Throw Voice does just that.

Unrelenting Force: Sometimes an enemy needs to be knocked off balance for a killing blow to be landed, or a larger object needs to be knocked down, and Dragons for all their size and power are not based upon a frame particularly capable of brute force, so Unrelenting Force gives them that extra measure of brute power.

Whirlwind Sprint: Dragon skeletons were designed to fly, not to walk, so they're a bit clumsy on land. This Shout gives them that little extra bit of maneuverability that they normally lack for ground battles.

There you go, each and every dragon-based shouts, each with a practical purpose in a dragon's existence. Now granted, they don't actually use them like that in the game, but that level of AI complexity would not only damn near impossible to implement, but would also make fighting them insanely hard even on the lowest difficulties (imagine fighting a Dragon whilst trying to find the sword that he Disarmed from you and knocked down a mountain)

But if practicality doesn't fit the bill you can always remember that time and power usually lead to weird things. Seriously, we humans on average don't live past a hundred years, yet we've created some of the craziest things imaginable. You take an immortal being with superpowers, and that equation increases exponentially. After all, eternity gets a little boring if you don't find a pet project to keep you busy......