My Only Problem with Reach

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Naota_391

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DarkSoldier84 said:
My problem with Halo: Reach is that Jun falls through a plot hole. You see how Jorge, Kat, Carter, Emile, and Six go down, but Jun just disappears after evacuating from Sword Base. Developer commentary says he's still alive, but that's not revealed in-game.
Jun evacuated with Dr. Halsey-- as in he went with her to make sure she left the planet alright. So, yeah, he totally survives. My only issue with that is that I'm pretty sure a lot of things in this game completely go against the cannon of The Fall of Reach book...
 

Naota_391

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Reep said:
Well it might just be me, but i felt bad for Jorge and Emile. I truly liked Jorge, he was shown as more than a death machine.
Emile on the other hand, the only reason i felt bad was because i couldnt be up there killing the zealots with him.
God, I love that line, "I'm ready... Are you?" Great last words.
 

koeniginator

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I don't know if it's just me, but it's kind of disturbed me that in halo 1 spartans were the silent protagonist, but nowadays they're these characters filled with real emotion and personality.

Edit: Might as well just remove the whole tinted visor thing and just reveal their faces while you're at it, Bungie.
 

DazBurger

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Judgement101 said:
dogstile said:
Judgement101 said:
Well, Halo games have never been good at making you like their characters.
Lies, everyone loved johnson :p
Well, you got me where, but no one really cares what happens to Generic Space Marine #195.
Im actually happy about Bungie not forcing me to like everyone in Halo... Since just about everyone either dies or go MIA.




...
Was I the only one who really liked Jorge?


...


blobby218 said:
-snip
Spartans never die, they're just missing in action.
(love that phrase)
Do you know the story behind that phrase? :p

To keep the morale up amongst the marines, UNSC list all killed or missing Spartans MIA... Even when they have the body.
 

Korten12

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koeniginator said:
I don't know if it's just me, but it's kind of disturbed me that in halo 1 spartans were the silent protagonist, but nowadays they're these characters filled with real emotion and personality.

Edit: Might as well just remove the whole tinted visor thing and just reveal their faces while you're at it, Bungie.
Master Chief talked in Halo CE.
 

koeniginator

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Korten12 said:
koeniginator said:
I don't know if it's just me, but it's kind of disturbed me that in halo 1 spartans were the silent protagonist, but nowadays they're these characters filled with real emotion and personality.

Edit: Might as well just remove the whole tinted visor thing and just reveal their faces while you're at it, Bungie.
Master Chief talked in Halo CE.
Barely.
 

LightspeedJack

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The only Halo character I gave a crap about was Jorge because he was british and had chain gun.
R.I.P. big guy
 

StriderShinryu

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Judgement101 said:
dogstile said:
Judgement101 said:
Well, Halo games have never been good at making you like their characters.
Lies, everyone loved johnson :p
Well, you got me where, but no one really cares what happens to Generic Space Marine #195.
Yeah, but you could say the same thing about generic character X in pretty much any game (or movie, or book, etc.). That's why they're generic. They exist to provide a little more semblance of life and population, and nothing more.
 
Apr 28, 2008
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It did feel a tad short and felt like they cut out some big things. Shame really, I'd have loved a giant send off. I'd would have loved if they were able to make each character unique, and something more than slightly interesting chiche's.

Sadly thats not the case. Still enjoyed the story though, the after-credits one was absolutely amazing.
 
Apr 28, 2008
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kman123 said:
koeniginator said:
I don't know if it's just me, but it's kind of disturbed me that in halo 1 spartans were the silent protagonist, but nowadays they're these characters filled with real emotion and personality.

Edit: Might as well just remove the whole tinted visor thing and just reveal their faces while you're at it, Bungie.
They were Spartan II's. Master Chiefy was a Spartan 3. 3's were created from scratch to be super soldiers, while the 2's were real soldiers who were melded with the technology. So emotions and crap remained.
I think you got that backwards.

Chief is a Spartan II. II's are the taller, stronger spartans, while the III's are what you play and what your squad in Reach are. Except Jorge, who's a II.
 

Miles Tormani

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kman123 said:
koeniginator said:
I don't know if it's just me, but it's kind of disturbed me that in halo 1 spartans were the silent protagonist, but nowadays they're these characters filled with real emotion and personality.

Edit: Might as well just remove the whole tinted visor thing and just reveal their faces while you're at it, Bungie.
They were Spartan II's. Master Chiefy was a Spartan 3. 3's were created from scratch to be super soldiers, while the 2's were real soldiers who were melded with the technology. So emotions and crap remained.
You have that backwards. Spartan-IIs are made into what they are as children, and must have incredibly specific genetic makeup. Master Chief was one, as was Jorge. Spartan-IIIs (the rest of Noble Team) on the other hand, are the ones who were augmented at a later age (I think 15?), and because they didn't go through nearly as many augmentations, the genetic makeup can have looser restrictions.

In response to bolded part of quote... you did play the game, right?

EDIT: Damn it. Ninja'd by Irridium.
 

ultrachicken

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How would you have developed the characters? Have Emile and Six discussing philosophical ideas while they stab a grunt in the brain?
 
Sep 14, 2009
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nin_ninja said:
....was that none of the characters were developed.

True, I was sad when Kat and the others died, but I couldn't really connect to the characters because the single player was short, and they weren't even around all that often.

I find this to be a problem with FPS, and shooters in general. Often these characters don't say much that isn't a taunt or something to advance the plot, and as a result you find it hard to sympathize with them.

Most other game series don;t have this problem, as you are often given points in the story to interact and just TALK with these characters.

Look at Mass Effect 2, we all love it (just a figure of speech folks), and 90% of the game is dialogue. Granted, its Bioware, but still, it would be nice to have some down time and be given some time to explore these other characters.

Exceptions to this case are people who appear throughout sequels and are given more chances to shine. Cortana, Soap, Wesker, all examples of characters who have developed somewhat over their game series. But this is because they live throughout. The whole of Noble team dies (well mostly) and none of them appear in any of the books, shorts, or comics, and they never will. I rally wanted to see Jorge interact with that Hungarian scientist more, I wanted to know more about Emile's history, but now I never will.

What are your thoughts on these topics?

EDIT:
This was not only a problem with Reach, just FPSs in general.
No, I miss Jorge too.
No, I was not expecting some deep characters, I'm just sad that they couldn't have been more developed.
How in anyway was Kat's death stupid? A sniper took her out from a place impossible to predict.
There were some other Spartans besides Master Chief who survived Reach, so it's too bad that none of the team besides Jun make it.
Kinda want a non-cannon Halo RPG like Mass Effect 2 where you assemble a team to destroy some grave Covenant threat.
Also want to know what happens to all these random A.I. like Dot, Serina, and the Superintendent.
the reason why everyone doesn't like kat's death, was it was completely random and had no purpose, just about everyone's death had some purpose or wasn't random, and it actually built up to the moment kat was just "*do do do do skipping along in the hallway* BLAT! *no shields?!?!*"
 

Vicarious Vangaurd

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ultrachicken said:
How would you have developed the characters? Have Emile and Six discussing philosophical ideas while they stab a grunt in the brain?
Yes, that would be quite awesome. Two badass Spartans killing Covenant while talking about philosophical stuff. Much like Red vs. Blue and why are we here and the sniper rifle.
 

vento 231

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OK, I loved reaches story, except tthe fact that I knew reach would fall before I played and knew most ofthe main charicters would die, I was very happy with the story line and the references to thom (who I wish had been a decent part of the story) I would definitly buy Legendary edition if I had the money. Granted the campain is a little short, I was heartbroken when Jorge died, and thrilled when Jun lived, so overall it was well writen, but I'm not exactly a critic. I didn't even like carter or kat at all, but Nobles 3,4, and 5 seemed decently likable, and was happy to see a younger captain keyes also. I liked the deliver hope trailer where thom sacrafices himself, and sets up the reach story, plus the little easter eggs showing all of the nobles. Sorry for the bad wording in this paragraph, I'll work on it.
 

Miles Tormani

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gmaverick019 said:
the reason why everyone doesn't like kat's death, was it was completely random and had no purpose, just about everyone's death had some purpose or wasn't random, and it actually built up to the moment kat was just "*do do do do skipping along in the hallway* BLAT! *no shields?!?!*"
I want to point out in this poster's defense, that we are not just getting snippy with game mechanics over plot (Aeris Phoenix Down scenario). The cutscenes in Halo: Reach make a point to ensure that physics between cutscene and game are the same. That's why you, say, see the shields go off when Emile and Six jump out of the Pelican later on. Seeing those shields function outside of gameplay just added more fuel to the "Kat's death was bullshit" fire.

With this in mind, pay attention to the shot that killed Kat. It's from a fucking Needle Rifle. Those take, what, six shots just to get through the shields?

The only explanation I can accept so far is that the explosion from earlier in the scene caused an EMP, but even that's debatable. Consider the length of time between explosion and death, and how long it normally takes for shields to recharge.
 
Sep 14, 2009
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Miles Tormani said:
gmaverick019 said:
the reason why everyone doesn't like kat's death, was it was completely random and had no purpose, just about everyone's death had some purpose or wasn't random, and it actually built up to the moment kat was just "*do do do do skipping along in the hallway* BLAT! *no shields?!?!*"
I want to point out in this poster's defense, that we are not just getting snippy with game mechanics over plot (Aeris Phoenix Down scenario). The cutscenes in Halo: Reach make a point to ensure that physics between cutscene and game are the same. That's why you, say, see the shields go off when Emile and Six jump out of the Pelican later on. Seeing those shields function outside of gameplay just added more fuel to the "Kat's death was bullshit" fire.

With this in mind, pay attention to the shot that killed Kat. It's from a fucking Needle Rifle. Those take, what, six shots just to get through the shields?

The only explanation I can accept so far is that the explosion from earlier in the scene caused an EMP, but even that's debatable. Consider the length of time between explosion and death, and how long it normally takes for shields to recharge.
exactly what i was going for, maybe if she had been defending that spot while the rest of the team fell back, and was going down that hallway, and then she got shot in the face by a needle rifle, that'd be believable and i wouldn't have been sayin "wtf" but that was one random ass hole with a random ass shot in which her death was a "wow...ok? fucking shit."
 

Naota_391

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Referring to the books (yet again), I think it makes perfect sense that Master Chief spoke so little.

First off, once the Spartans had grown up, become full on soldiers, and developed as a team, they didn't even speak to each other that much. They all seemed to have a pretty good understanding of each other, and when in the battlefield they used a lot of hand motions to direct each other.

Most of the UNSC looked at the Saprtans like they were aliens, and I have to imagine the Spartans felt like that when they were around other people. Especially around the ODST's.

The biggest difference between Noble Team and Master Chief is obvious-- Noble Team was a TEAM. They had each other to talk to. The Spartan II's were raised together and still functioned as a unit. Master Chief, however, had to function without his team throughout the Halo trilogy. So far as hew knew, his entire team was dead, and the only real company he had was Cortana. In that context, it doesn't surprise me in the least that he never had much to say to anyone. I'm sure if we saw him in the company of his own personal squad when they were still alive, he'd be a bit more chatty.