My problem with Blizzard...

[sobaka770]

Wow, I guess the main point of all this hatred is not WoW but actually the SC2 that got split in 3 parts? I've bought a collector's edition of this game and while some may argue that haveing just the Terran campaign is limiting, I had great fun with it.
This is the only developer out there that is actually committed to creating polished games from the get go. I mean I love Bioware and Valve and a lot of other publishers but Blizzard has never done a cheap or a cop-out game. I never felt that my money was poorly invested (khem DA2). SC2 had no bugs, only minor balance changes, it had one of the best if not the best campaign presentations in the whole RTS genre. C&C had nice cut-scenes but, achievements, upgrades, balance... those things take so much time to develop and to make them feel just right. I am glad that they released WoL as it was. The campaign is by no means short and if you're into multiplayer... well then the replay-ability is almost limitless.
I understand the people who have gripes with the story, but to say that it is a bad game or that it is a re-skinned SC1, is to not understand much in game development and the effort it takes.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

This is the only developer out there that is actually committed to creating polished games from the get go. I mean I love Bioware and Valve and a lot of other publishers but Blizzard has never done a cheap or a cop-out game.

But are you confident in applying that to every Blizzard game? Because...well, I'm sure mileage may vary, but Cataclysm struck me as painfully half-assed and rushed.

Don't get me wrong; haven't gotten sick of the game yet. But I wasn't impressed with Cata at all.

 

[Warready]

I haven't liked Blizzard for a while, probably since the end of BC when I quit WoW and swore I would never buy another Blizzard game again. Years later, I found I've bought SC21 and due to a now ex, while she bought and paid for the account, I tried FT and Cata. I think the biggest issue for me was the lack of innovation and the lack of care when telling their stories now.

While SC and WC weren't entirely ground breaking in themselves, there were little facets of the games that set them apart from other games. Resource management in WC and SC for example, most games at the time only had 1 resource requirement to fulfill and not many had hardcaps on units. The way WoW set up the worlds, where all the dungeons were persistent and the lands were all zoneless (minus dungeons and continent changes). The little quips the units made after constantly clicking on them in WC2 was hilarious. The addition of pop culture and nerd culture references in SC added a new twist. Little things like these revolutionized the genres and kept the RTS and MMO genres fresh.

But I've seen little in the past years in regards to Blizzard as groundbreaking or innovative. Everything from BC on that has been "new" was taken from some other game's crux and then redone and polished. This isn't innovative, its just "sharing" (and I use that term loosely when involving Blizzard). While the industry does this as a whole, there is a difference between what Blizz does and what other companies do. I don't want to go into detail as I'm sure other threads have covered it.

Its to the point where their games have almost regressed altogether. For example, SC2, in all its pomp and glitter for the single player storyline and shipboard campaign, the basic game play actually seemed to revert to a hybrid state of preWC3 and WC3 gameplay. The musty use of rock, paper, scissors, and OMGROLLFACEONKEYBOARD use of skills before the other person uses theirs is there to a greater extent. The reliance of a preset building/unit queue is still there in multiplayer (and I'd argue to say singleplayer now as well). You might say its all about adapting, I say its who gets to the breakpoint in the tech tree first. While there were still heroes in the storyline, they didn't differ from SC heroes in the fact they did more DPS and had more HP. What happened to the neat leveling/skill system you had in WC3, or the EXTREMELY basic equipment system you introduced in WC3? Yes I can buy upgrades on the ship but really? All you're really doing is unlocking unit upgrades, the most of which are normally available from upgrade structures in normal gameplay.

While I'm not saying every game should progress with other games, for example squad-based as opposed to single units, from an RTS standpoint this game seems to be a throwback to the old days.... Or the developers just didn't really care, which I would say is more apropos considering the state of the other games and the mindset of Kotick. SC2 just does not feel like a modern RTS. It feels old, and while it gave me a week of entertainment before I beat the campaign a second time on hard setting, the multiplayer is just not fun because of that feeling.

Blizzard prides itself on story. Diablo for example was extremely well told and all encompassing within the games. The use of story in their games now is hodgepodge at best. I love to read books, but I refuse to read a book that comes under the premise of canon for future expansion, part of the reason I dislike the Halo series so much. So yes, I've missed quite a bit running the main quest lines in the WoW expansions and the main storyline of SC21:se1:ep1. While I won't say the stories were bad, they weren't good either, just sort of bland. I won't say they're cliched either, as well honestly, I'm not a creative person and I couldn't do better. They just feel empty.

I had an issue with WoW around BC when they started rewriting parts of the lore or progressing lore in awkward states. The introduction of the draenei race for example was one of those. I'm not going to touch on the universe of SC as a whole, as I am not going to fan the constant SC/WH40k debate, but yeah, you have to admit some of the ideas are just downright stolen, from both sides for that matter, not necessarily from each other but the genre as a whole, but I tend to be much more biased to the WH40k universe (unfortunately just by mentioning it I've probably got some frothing nerd on the other side of the internet hate machine about to have a conniption).

I hope with the expansion of the Blizzard campus and their, hopefully, "new" MMO they will use the new ideas of a new generation of gamers. The industry needs some new ideas right now and they have the company structure and fan base to allow it, particularly during these economical hard times. But, in my opinion, I doubt it. Maybe I'm just starting to get old, but the company ain't what it used to be. Its like this newfangled music, crap.

Now get off my lawn ya damned kids!

 

[Darkmantle]

although I love the Sc2 story, and think people are way too hard on it for no reason

There is a reason and you stated it. Some people violently oppose the fact that the story is fleshed out in other mediums. There are moments in cut scenes you feel like something private happened that you didn't understand because you didn't do your book report.

What kind of reasoning is that? If they failed to tell a story within a game, they failed to tell a story within a game. A book based on a game is made to flesh out the story and the characters, not providing backstory that's essential to understanding the main plot in the game the book was based upon.

You really shouldn't be obliged to read a fucking book because the developers failed to tell a coherent narrative in their own game, that like a Universe where Matrix 1 never existed, and when people saw Matrix 2 and were extremely confused because nothing was explained, the directors would just go "Hey, someone wrote a book, you have to read it to understand the movie".

If a game tells a story, it shouldn't be hiding important details in a book nobody heard nor cared about. It pains me that Blizzard are completly oblivious to this fact, and it pains me even more that people, normal human beings (instead of the insane dumbass weirdos that occupy Blizzard story-department) are fooled by this.

As I stated in my post, I find the story enjoyable and quite "coherent" and have yet to see a good argument to the contrary. I have never read any of the books. I never found any important details to be missing, furthermore I found many little details many missed (and subsequently complained about not being obvious enough). Please, enlighten me to what doesn't make sense in the story, games only.

Also, as a starting point, I'm not saying the game's story is perfect, only that it takes way to much heat when it is a fairly decent and easily understood story. The overmind "ret-con" was a little, odd, but doesn't differ too significantly from the original, even if you don't like the direction. Many people complain about the "prophesy" but I consider that to be a moot point, one of the themes of the story is destiny vs. free will, and Jim struggles with that question. I think one of the biggest threats to the narrative is the news station. It was clear to me it was meant as comic relief and not to be taken seriously, but apparently most people just couldn't handle that and instead rail about how the news anchors act, I find it irrelevant really, it's just supposed to be funny, but I see how it undermines the narrative a bit.

Besides those little points a thought the story was one of the best of it's time. My new favourite character is Tosh (yeah one of those characters that you can't understand because they were "fleshed out" in the books.) I thought he was very unique and well characterized. Many disagree.

anyway, what are your problems with the story?

 

[Darkmantle]

although I love the Sc2 story, and think people are way too hard on it for no reason

There is a reason and you stated it. Some people violently oppose the fact that the story is fleshed out in other mediums. There are moments in cut scenes you feel like something private happened that you didn't understand because you didn't do your book report.

What kind of reasoning is that? If they failed to tell a story within a game, they failed to tell a story within a game. A book based on a game is made to flesh out the story and the characters, not providing backstory that's essential to understanding the main plot in the game the book was based upon.

You really shouldn't be obliged to read a fucking book because the developers failed to tell a coherent narrative in their own game, that like a Universe where Matrix 1 never existed, and when people saw Matrix 2 and were extremely confused because nothing was explained, the directors would just go "Hey, someone wrote a book, you have to read it to understand the movie".

If a game tells a story, it shouldn't be hiding important details in a book nobody heard nor cared about. It pains me that Blizzard are completly oblivious to this fact, and it pains me even more that people, normal human beings (instead of the insane dumbass weirdos that occupy Blizzard story-department) are fooled by this.

As I stated in my post, I find the story enjoyable and quite "coherent" and have yet to see a good argument to the contrary. I have never read any of the books. I never found any important details to be missing, furthermore I found many little details many missed (and subsequently complained about not being obvious enough). Please, enlighten me to what doesn't make sense in the story, games only.

Also, as a starting point, I'm not saying the game's story is perfect, only that it takes way to much heat when it is a fairly decent and easily understood story. The overmind "ret-con" was a little, odd, but doesn't differ too significantly from the original, even if you don't like the direction. Many people complain about the "prophesy" but I consider that to be a moot point, one of the themes of the story is destiny vs. free will, and Jim struggles with that question. I think one of the biggest threats to the narrative is the news station. It was clear to me it was meant as comic relief and not to be taken seriously, but apparently most people just couldn't handle that and instead rail about how the news anchors act, I find it irrelevant really, it's just supposed to be funny, but I see how it undermines the narrative a bit.

Besides those little points a thought the story was one of the best of it's time. My new favourite character is Tosh (yeah one of those characters that you can't understand because they were "fleshed out" in the books.) I thought he was very unique and well characterized. Many disagree.

anyway, what are your problems with the story?

Apperently you didn't read my post, which is be a little unfortunate. My post was about Blizzard telling a large part of their stories in books, and never mentioning this in the games. I really can't see how you comment a post without even reading.

Apparently you didn't read mine because I said I don't give a fuck, it doesn't detract from the story.

They didn't "fail to tell a story in the game" as YOU put it. the books also don't "provide backstory that's essential to understanding the main plot in the game" and I don't feel "obliged to read a fucking book because the developers failed to tell a coherent narrative in their own game" because they DID tell a coherent narrative in their game. Are yougoing to back up those claims or continue to pretend that I "didn't read your post" . Perhaps you should reread your own posts before you respond to mine.

EDIT: oh, and it doesn't participate in "hiding important details in a book nobody heard nor cared about." either, I even mentioned people missed many details in the games because they were too lazy to look for them.

 

[Darkmantle]

although I love the Sc2 story, and think people are way too hard on it for no reason

There is a reason and you stated it. Some people violently oppose the fact that the story is fleshed out in other mediums. There are moments in cut scenes you feel like something private happened that you didn't understand because you didn't do your book report.

What kind of reasoning is that? If they failed to tell a story within a game, they failed to tell a story within a game. A book based on a game is made to flesh out the story and the characters, not providing backstory that's essential to understanding the main plot in the game the book was based upon.

You really shouldn't be obliged to read a fucking book because the developers failed to tell a coherent narrative in their own game, that like a Universe where Matrix 1 never existed, and when people saw Matrix 2 and were extremely confused because nothing was explained, the directors would just go "Hey, someone wrote a book, you have to read it to understand the movie".

If a game tells a story, it shouldn't be hiding important details in a book nobody heard nor cared about. It pains me that Blizzard are completly oblivious to this fact, and it pains me even more that people, normal human beings (instead of the insane dumbass weirdos that occupy Blizzard story-department) are fooled by this.

As I stated in my post, I find the story enjoyable and quite "coherent" and have yet to see a good argument to the contrary. I have never read any of the books. I never found any important details to be missing, furthermore I found many little details many missed (and subsequently complained about not being obvious enough). Please, enlighten me to what doesn't make sense in the story, games only.

Also, as a starting point, I'm not saying the game's story is perfect, only that it takes way to much heat when it is a fairly decent and easily understood story. The overmind "ret-con" was a little, odd, but doesn't differ too significantly from the original, even if you don't like the direction. Many people complain about the "prophesy" but I consider that to be a moot point, one of the themes of the story is destiny vs. free will, and Jim struggles with that question. I think one of the biggest threats to the narrative is the news station. It was clear to me it was meant as comic relief and not to be taken seriously, but apparently most people just couldn't handle that and instead rail about how the news anchors act, I find it irrelevant really, it's just supposed to be funny, but I see how it undermines the narrative a bit.

Besides those little points a thought the story was one of the best of it's time. My new favourite character is Tosh (yeah one of those characters that you can't understand because they were "fleshed out" in the books.) I thought he was very unique and well characterized. Many disagree.

anyway, what are your problems with the story?

Apperently you didn't read my post, which is be a little unfortunate. My post was about Blizzard telling a large part of their stories in books, and never mentioning this in the games. I really can't see how you comment a post without even reading.

Apparently you didn't read mine because I said I don't give a fuck, it doesn't detract from the story.

They didn't "fail to tell a story in the game" as YOU put it. the books also don't "provide backstory that's essential to understanding the main plot in the game" and I don't feel "obliged to read a fucking book because the developers failed to tell a coherent narrative in their own game" because they DID tell a coherent narrative in their game. Are yougoing to back up those claims or continue to pretend that I "didn't read your post" . Perhaps you should reread your own posts before you respond to mine.

EDIT: oh, and it doesn't participate in "hiding important details in a book nobody heard nor cared about." either, I even mentioned people missed many details in the games because they were too lazy to look for them.

*sigh*, I was arguing with a guy that developers shouldn't relay on a lot of the games's story being based a book, based on a game. Feel free to join into the right discussion, but this has nothing at all to do with the quality of SC 2:s story, it's about games hiding important content in books.

You did not so much as not read the whole of my post, but attempt to start an entiely new discussion on a matter I currently wasn't even discussing, while currently believeing that I was the one who srated the conversation.

when the second line of your post is"If they failed to tell a story within a game, they failed to tell a story within a game." you do not set yourself up to have a discussion of the problems with relying on outside sources, you just said the story sucks and elaborated on it. Furthermore half of your complaints are unjustified. "" the directors would just go "Hey, someone wrote a book, you have to read it to understand the movie"."" you don't have to read the books, so that's invalid, it didn't hide important details, so that's invalid, and AGAIN it DIDN'T provide backstory needed to understand the game, invalid.

So since all your apparent problems with the starcraft books existing are invalid, what is your problem with them, because nothing in your post addresses that, as I have pointed out and wanted to discuss in my post. But apparently that's not what we're talking about? BS.

EDIT: and, correct me if I'm wrong, but SC2 takes place AFTER the books, not during, so it's not even based on the books, they just said the books were canon.

 

[veloper]

And then that black day came...I hop onto the Blizzard site and find a new bit of news waiting for me. "We just can't fit everything we want to do onto one disc. So we're going to break the game into three pieces each with a $60 price tag and release them all completely seperately from one another." I didn't buy that BS about not being able to fit it all onto one disc, for starters (though having spoken with people who have played the games, the campaigns are apparently quite massive so fair enough). But even so....why sell the games seperately? Why slap a full price on a game that's only 1/3 of a greater whole? A game that, were it made a decade before, would have been sold as a completed product? What would be wrong with releasing a single game with multipe discs? To me, the move to break up a game that fans of the series had been waiting over a decade for and sell it to them in three $60 chunks was just the absolute epitomy of greed. Why did they do this? Because they knew you'd buy it.

I don't think we will, not for $60 expansion packs.
We'll just have to wait and see if Blizzard is really that stupid, or worse, that the gaming masses are that stupid and fork over another $60, twice.

As for the Terran campaign being 1/3 of a campaign, I feel the SC2 missions are superior to the original missions in SC1, because there's more variety in the objectives now. Not mere skirmishes against the AI, just with unit types disabled.
Maybe the 3 SC1 campaigns did take a bit longer to complete (I don't recall exactly anymore), but for each race it was unit tutorial missions all over until the end and a couple base interior missions.

I never cared much for the story itself, it's bad and so was SC1's writing, but here atleast alot more work went into the presentation. The content in Wings of Liberty cannot honestly be considered any less complete than previous Blizzard titles.

I do wonder if Blizzard will be able to come up with anything resembling a story for the zerg campaign though. The only zerg with any kind of personality was Kerrigan. The upcoming expansion is where I expect to find the deepest lows in the series.

 

[Darkmantle]

And then that black day came...I hop onto the Blizzard site and find a new bit of news waiting for me. "We just can't fit everything we want to do onto one disc. So we're going to break the game into three pieces each with a $60 price tag and release them all completely seperately from one another." I didn't buy that BS about not being able to fit it all onto one disc, for starters (though having spoken with people who have played the games, the campaigns are apparently quite massive so fair enough). But even so....why sell the games seperately? Why slap a full price on a game that's only 1/3 of a greater whole? A game that, were it made a decade before, would have been sold as a completed product? What would be wrong with releasing a single game with multipe discs? To me, the move to break up a game that fans of the series had been waiting over a decade for and sell it to them in three $60 chunks was just the absolute epitomy of greed. Why did they do this? Because they knew you'd buy it.

I don't think we will, not for $60 expansion packs.
We'll just have to wait and see if Blizzard is really that stupid, or worse, that the gaming masses are that stupid and fork over another $60, twice.

As for the Terran campaign being 1/3 of a campaign, I feel the SC2 missions are superior to the original missions in SC1, because there's more variety in the objectives now. Not mere skirmishes against the AI, just with unit types disabled.
Maybe the 3 SC1 campaigns did take a bit longer to complete (I don't recall exactly anymore), but for each race it was unit tutorial missions all over until the end and a couple base interior missions.

I never cared much for the story itself, it's bad and so was SC1's writing, but here atleast alot more work went into the presentation. The content in Wings of Liberty cannot honestly be considered any less complete than previous Blizzard titles.

I do wonder if Blizzard will be able to come up with anything resembling a story for the zerg campaign though. The only zerg with any kind of personality was Kerrigan. The upcoming expansion is where I expect to find the deepest lows in the series.

I just hope they have the sense to price it at about 40$, blizzard did say that HotS would be priced as an expansion, not a full game, so they MUST mean lower than 60$, right? I honestly don't think they would charge full price for HotS, and I am totally willing to eat these words if they do.

EDIT: oh btw, you play as Kerrigan in HotS just thought you should know.

 

[michael87cn]

I was browsing around on the front page of Escapist, seeing if any new articles had been posted, when I noticed an article under "Required Reading" called "Azeroth is Burning". I clicked it and read through, expecting to find it about someone who became disillusioned with WoW as I had years ago. Turns out it was actually about how Cataclysm revitalized the writer's desire to play and explore the World of Warcraft once again, to see all the places he had roamed back in the days of standard WoW and see how much they have change while basking in the warm glow of the memories that once filled the now-ruined landscape that will never be the same as it once was. While it was a very interesting article, I felt it necessary to bring a different side to the argument, one from the perspective of a former WoW player who couldn't get sucked back in.

That's when I noticed that the article had been written waaaaaay back in August of 2010.

As such I decided it'd be best to air my grievances here.

Like countless other souls, I too was utterly devoured by WoW when it first game out. I had loved the WC RTS games and was very eager to throw $15 a month at Blizzard if for nothing else but to continue the story line from where it left off at the end of Frozen Throne. I spent countless hours working my way up from a no-name cadet with naught but rags on my shoulders and a big clumbsy mallet in my hand to being someone of great importance to my faction's cause, having audiences with high-ranking military officers who told me that I was the only one now who could possibly stop (insert dungeon boss name here). Granted, I wasn't so foolish as to believe that said dungeon boss hadn't already had his face crushed in by countless other random adventurers, but still, as someone who actually enjoys the story: I enjoyed thinking that yes, /I/ am the hero that the Night Elves of Desolace had been waiting for.

This magic was lost when I started created new characters to experience other classes, at which point all the heroism of my first play-through had been exchanged for a simple running of the motions necessary to level up "Alright, at lvl 20 I go here, that'll get me to lvl 35 at which point I can go to this zone, that'll get me up to 42 so I can go to Stranglethorn Vale." Gone were the days of exploring caves and new areas, seeking out new life and new civilizations, boldly going where no Undead Warlock had gone before! So that was really the first blow - albeit a small one - against my enjoyment of the game.

The true downfall came when I had finally reached lvl 60 with my warlock and was ready to enlist in an end-game raiding guild. The guild I signed up with was a pretty top-notch bunch who had already conquered Blackwing Lair...I recall getting an entire set of Felheart (think that's what that set was called) minus two pieces on my /trial/ run with the guild. Good lord I was absolutely thrilled! I was now walking around in what was at the time the best possible armor for my class! Woo-hoo! Now raids are more of a social event than anything, just something to do every Wednesday, Friday, and sometimes Sunday if anyone was interested. And so I was actually sucked even further into the game because I actually felt a sense of need and purpose...if I wasn't there to soul-stone the priest for wipe-protection, keep the tank inflated with my imp's stamina buff, and keep the target weakened with curses that opened the door for even bigger DPS from our mages, then the guild's chances of winning were reduced. Obviously they could get by just fine without me, but I still felt like I had a very necessary and important job to do - just as everyone else did - against whatever raid boss we were taking on.

And so I stayed and paid and played and enjoyed myself for a few years. I was there when the gates of AQ opened, unleashing an army of bugs and massive egyptian deities upon the land. I was there when the Dark Portal was rebuilt and the hellish world of Outland was once again linked to Azeroth and the threat of the Burning Legion returned. I was there when Kael'thas betrayed Illidan and sold out his people to join the demon lord Kil'Jaden. Hours of my time just sent to the slaughterhouse, but with each new raid dungeon that came out and with each slaying of Illidan, I began to notice something...something seriously wrong.

I was essentially paying $15 a month to play fantasy dress-up.

As Yahtzee pointed out in his review of WoW, you find yourself asking "Why do you raid?" "To get the best gear!" "And why do you want the best gear?" "So I can raid!" I looked around at all the other warlocks in my guild...in EVERY guild...and realized we were all cookie-cutter print-outs of the exact same person. We might have different talent specs, but even then there's only two or three legitimate builds to make your character the best possible for the role you desire it to play. But in the end: one warlock is just the same as every other warlock. One mage was the same as any other. One warrior was the same as any other. More and more it began to seem to me that the only reason Blizzard releases new material is to keep people playing...to dangle that shiny new armor tier in their faces and say "YOU WANT THIS!" Ok, so I got it....now what? "HELP OTHER PEOPLE GET IT!" Penny-Arcade put out a comic a long while ago when Blizzard released a WoW trading card game that depicted Satan being brought in as an advisor to the Blizzard team, trying to help them get more money. Blizzard Employee: "We've already got them paying us for WoW, but studies show that at certain times people DON'T play WoW...how can we get money from them during such times?" Satan: "Lo, you shall create a trading card game. And the rarest and most expensive of these cards shall have special codes that can be redeemed for in-game content!" Blizzard Employee 1: "That...that's just evil!" Blizzard Employee 2: "HAIL SATAN!" BE 1: "Yeah, Hail Satan!" (those might not be exact quotes, but that's the jist of things).

But I could deal with it, I still liked the social aspect of raiding, so I didn't particularly mind the fact that more and more Blizzard was making itself out to be nothing but a money grubbing company that was riding it's cash-cow as hard and deep as it possibly could. Fair enough, a business has one objective: make a profit. And I don't mind that. So I played it out until the end of Burning Crusade, and it was about that time that Blizzard revealed itself to be not just trying to make a profit, but just being outright greedy. Coincidentally, the straw that broke the camel's back for me didn't even have anything to do with the soul-devouring behemoth known as WoW......it was all about Star Craft II.

SC II is a game that eager players had literally been waiting over a decade for...knowing that it's supposed to come out, that sooner or later they'll have to take a break from this new pet-project known as WoW and get back to making some SC goodness. And huzzah! At last the day had come when they announced that SC II would be arriving within a year! South Korea rejoices with massive festivals and pretty much made the SC II announcement day a national holiday! Eagerly I returned to the Blizzard website on an almost daily basis. Hoping to find some new news, or to find a new unit had been revealed. I, like I imagine many others, was practically drooling over the thought of finally getting to play SC II! Again, while I really enjoyed the multiplayer as a casual gamer, the biggest draw was finding out what happens after Kerrigan stands triumpahnt over all her foes on an infested space platform over the smoldering planet of Char. What was meant by Duran's ominous message in the bonus level? Were the legendary Xel'Naga about return and wipe clean the grand experiment they had started with the Protoss and Zerg? I couldn't wait!

And then that black day came...I hop onto the Blizzard site and find a new bit of news waiting for me. "We just can't fit everything we want to do onto one disc. So we're going to break the game into three pieces each with a $60 price tag and release them all completely seperately from one another." I didn't buy that BS about not being able to fit it all onto one disc, for starters (though having spoken with people who have played the games, the campaigns are apparently quite massive so fair enough). But even so....why sell the games seperately? Why slap a full price on a game that's only 1/3 of a greater whole? A game that, were it made a decade before, would have been sold as a completed product? What would be wrong with releasing a single game with multipe discs? To me, the move to break up a game that fans of the series had been waiting over a decade for and sell it to them in three $60 chunks was just the absolute epitomy of greed. Why did they do this? Because they knew you'd buy it. You've been waiting for so long to get a taste of SC II's goodness that you won't mind paying a total of $180 just for a single RTS game.

It was the exact same as that shiny new gear the next raid update for WoW promised. "Hang with us for two more months and you'll get this shiny new armor!" had been replaced by "Hang with us for five more years and you'll finally own the entire SC II game!" It's a highly anticipated, longly awaited game being dangled on a string right in front of you. The only way to get Blizzard to lower the string is to fork over $60 and even then they only lower the string just enough for you to tear off 1/3 of the game.

It all became clear for me at that point...WoW was itself a soul-sucking, wallet-eating monster. But it had now turned Blizzard into a soul-sucking, wallet-eating monster. So much time is dedicated to the upkeep of WoW that Blizzard might as well change it's company name to WoW. Gone are the days of engaging fantasy stories about adventures beyond the stars or beyond the dark portal. They have been replaced by a company who's sole purpose is to string its customers along, siphoning more money from them in any way they can. To me, they've become nothing more than digital drug-dealers with shady grins, more than happy to give their customers their next watered-down fix....so long as said customers are willing to pay far out the ass for it.

And thus ends my rant on Blizzard. For anyone who actually read all that, I truuly applaud you and thank you for reading.

I was there for some of that too. But mostly, I was the opposite of you, realised immediately the unimportance of gear/item obtaining and instead, only wanted to experience the content that was so easily given in WC1, 2 and 3.. but so hard to see in WoW. I wanted to see the rest of the story and was neither willing nor able to provide the time, WORK or socializing REQUIRED to play the 'end-game' 'content'.

If you noticed, I capitalized the words required and work, not to emphasize yelling, but the words themselves.

Games shouldn't have required elements, and they should be fun, not work.

I am waiting for WoW, and MMORPGs to come around and stop being about loot. Someday we'll have good MMOs again. That is my hope.

 

[RJ 17]

Snip.

I don't think we will, not for $60 expansion packs.
We'll just have to wait and see if Blizzard is really that stupid, or worse, that the gaming masses are that stupid and fork over another $60, twice.

As for the Terran campaign being 1/3 of a campaign, I feel the SC2 missions are superior to the original missions in SC1, because there's more variety in the objectives now. Not mere skirmishes against the AI, just with unit types disabled.
Maybe the 3 SC1 campaigns did take a bit longer to complete (I don't recall exactly anymore), but for each race it was unit tutorial missions all over until the end and a couple base interior missions.

I never cared much for the story itself, it's bad and so was SC1's writing, but here atleast alot more work went into the presentation. The content in Wings of Liberty cannot honestly be considered any less complete than previous Blizzard titles.

I do wonder if Blizzard will be able to come up with anything resembling a story for the zerg campaign though. The only zerg with any kind of personality was Kerrigan. The upcoming expansion is where I expect to find the deepest lows in the series.

Big Snip

More Snippage

I just hope they have the sense to price it at about 40$, blizzard did say that HotS would be priced as an expansion, not a full game, so they MUST mean lower than 60$, right? I honestly don't think they would charge full price for HotS, and I am totally willing to eat these words if they do.

EDIT: oh btw, you play as Kerrigan in HotS just thought you should know.

To you both: I have heard numerous times that "Oh Blizzard said they'll be pricing the next installments of SC II at "expansion prices", so it won't be full priced." Maybe you're right, unfortunatey past evidence says that Blizzard making such a statement is absolutely meaningless. I'll give the WoW expansions a pass at being full price because of the nature of MMO's and the fact that they add so much content with free content expansions down the line for each expansion. However as far as the RTS games are concerned, Brood Wars and Frozen Throne were expansions, and both of them cost full-game price.

Good lord man, you actually quoted my entire OP?

I was there for some of that too. But mostly, I was the opposite of you, realised immediately the unimportance of gear/item obtaining and instead, ONLY WANTED TO EXPERIENCE THE CONTENT THAT WAS SO EASILY GIVEN IN WC1,2 AND 3.. but so hard to see in WoW. I wanted to see the rest of the story and was neither willing nor able to provide the time, WORK or socializing REQUIRED to play the 'end-game' 'content'.

If you noticed, I capitalized the words required and work, not to emphasize yelling, but the words themselves.

GAMES SHOULDN'T HAVE REQUIRED ELEMENTS, AND THEY SHOULD BE FUN, NOT WORK.

I am waiting for WoW, and MMORPGs to come around and stop being about loot. Someday we'll have good MMOs again. That is my hope.

I caps'd the parts of your statement that I specifically wanted to address, because that's exactly how it was for me: I had originally got WoW because damn it I wanted to know what happens next! Frozen Throne ends with Arthas taking his place as the all-power Lich King, and I was REALLY hoping that's where it would pick up...but instead the original WoW, while still fun, gave us nothing but a buncha dungeons and stories that had absolutely nothing to do with the events at the end of Frozen Throne...in fact we had to wait for 2 expansions before we could get any closure on the Arthas saga.

And yeah, that was one of the major points I've been talking about all along: the game began to feel more like a job or a chore, but instead of getting paid to do said job/chore, I was having to pay in order to do it. I did have fun for the first few years, but just couldn't convince myself it was worth continuing to pay for.

 

[MetallicaRulez0]

I'm currently on hiatus from WOW while I play SWTOR. I finally got tired of the hamster wheel of raiding. New raid tier, go grind it! New raid tier, go grind it! It's gotten to the point where even the bosses are formulaic. Here's the DPS check boss, here's the add fight, here's the gimmick encounter, oh and on hard mode all of them gain an ability that annoys everyone.

Which brings me to my #1 complaint with the game in it's current state: hard modes. Who the FUCK thought replacing new content with an extra boss ability and 20% more health was a good idea? I mean, come the fuck on. Seriously? You can't make 10 unique bosses per tier instead of making 6 with hard modes? Don't give me the "it's like a brand new boss" bullshit either, it isn't. It's the same damn boss with an extra mechanic tacked on that no one finds enjoyable.

Ask ANY hardcore player from vanilla/BC what they think of hard modes. I bet you 95% of them say they hate them with a passion, but they do them anyways because "they feel obligated to their guild". At least that's how I felt when I still raided 5 nights a week.

 

[RJ 17]

I'm currently on hiatus from WOW while I play SWTOR. I finally got tired of the hamster wheel of raiding. New raid tier, go grind it! New raid tier, go grind it! It's gotten to the point where even the bosses are formulaic. Here's the DPS check boss, here's the add fight, here's the gimmick encounter, oh and on hard mode all of them gain an ability that annoys everyone.

Which brings me to my #1 complaint with the game in it's current state: hard modes. Who the FUCK thought replacing new content with an extra boss ability and 20% more health was a good idea? I mean, come the fuck on. Seriously? You can't make 10 unique bosses per tier instead of making 6 with hard modes? Don't give me the "it's like a brand new boss" bullshit either, it isn't. It's the same damn boss with an extra mechanic tacked on that no one finds enjoyable.

Ask ANY hardcore player from vanilla/BC what they think of hard modes. I bet you 95% of them say they hate them with a passion, but they do them anyways because "they feel obligated to their guild". At least that's how I felt when I still raided 5 nights a week.

Good lord, man...raiding FIVE nights a week?! Even at my prime when I was still enjoying the game, every guild I was in only raided 2 nights a week...3 if there were enough people for an optional raid on one of the smaller dungeons.

But I do hear you, and you did a good job at summing up my major problem with why I became disinterested in raiding. Every boss is essentially the same as every other: watch your DPS or deal with the adds or know some kind of special manuever/positioning to ensure a raid-wiping attack doesn't go off. Same shit, different packaging.

 

[Torrasque]

I read it all, and you're right.

I've quit WoW a bit after Cata, Blizzard was making everything so easy (to attract new players = more money!). The required skill to become an 'elite' was going away. You just needed to grind dailies over and over again, and in the end you had the best gear there was. This made the game so boring. No wonder they lost a lot of players.

But i am afraid Blizz will just keep on going until nobody wants to play their games anymore.

I agree as well, you hit the nail on the head.
I don't agree with your sentiments about SC2, but WoW died out for me when things got way too easy and felt way too much like wotlk did.
The last time I had fun in WoW, was Ulduar. That was the last challenging raid, the last time my guild played to have fun and not "for progression" and the last time all the people I had fun with, were in my guild. From there, I lost more and more people with each new raid, until Cata came along and I didn't recognize half of my guild =|

I still like Blizzard as a company because Wings of Liberty was absolutely amazing and D3 will be amazing, but I will probably never go back to WoW. They would have to take away the easymode built into the game for me to be even slightly interested.

 

[RedPulse]

I read it all, and you're right.

I've quit WoW a bit after Cata, Blizzard was making everything so easy (to attract new players = more money!). The required skill to become an 'elite' was going away. You just needed to grind dailies over and over again, and in the end you had the best gear there was. This made the game so boring. No wonder they lost a lot of players.

But i am afraid Blizz will just keep on going until nobody wants to play their games anymore.

Being "elite" never required much skill, unless we're talking server first-kills or finishing first in an arena season. All it took was enough free time to get the gear/enchantments/potions/etc, combined with having half a brain.

True, but my point is, since Cataclysm Blizzard just throws everything in your lap, and Blizzard admits it. They are making the game easier, so new people level up faster, and are easier hooked up in end-game content.

 

[Asehujiko]

I've quit WoW a bit after Cata, Blizzard was making everything so easy

Have you considered that maybe you might be a bit better at a game now that you've been playing it for years?

 

[skywolfblue]

I'm currently on hiatus from WOW while I play SWTOR. I finally got tired of the hamster wheel of raiding. New raid tier, go grind it! New raid tier, go grind it! It's gotten to the point where even the bosses are formulaic. Here's the DPS check boss, here's the add fight, here's the gimmick encounter, oh and on hard mode all of them gain an ability that annoys everyone.

Which brings me to my #1 complaint with the game in it's current state: hard modes. Who the FUCK thought replacing new content with an extra boss ability and 20% more health was a good idea? I mean, come the fuck on. Seriously? You can't make 10 unique bosses per tier instead of making 6 with hard modes? Don't give me the "it's like a brand new boss" bullshit either, it isn't. It's the same damn boss with an extra mechanic tacked on that no one finds enjoyable.

Ask ANY hardcore player from vanilla/BC what they think of hard modes. I bet you 95% of them say they hate them with a passion, but they do them anyways because "they feel obligated to their guild". At least that's how I felt when I still raided 5 nights a week.

I rather liked hard modes, especially (I absolutely adored) ulduar style hardmodes that changed the fight up a lot.

The only problem is that, like you pointed out, blizzard decided to use hardmodes as an excuse to not produce anywhere near the same amount of content. TBC was packed to the brim with new fights, LK had Ulduar, ICC and the rest was either re-hashed or dull, and Cata was even worse. (I quit before Cata came out)

 

[RJ 17]

I've quit WoW a bit after Cata, Blizzard was making everything so easy

Have you considered that maybe you might be a bit better at a game now that you've been playing it for years?

What's there to be better at in WoW? You know your class, you know what abilities to use and in what order. All that's left is to go to some forum/website to read each boss fight strat and try with the rest of your guild to execute said strat perfectly until you manage to pull it off and the boss goes down.

My point is that you don't really get "better" in WoW in terms of increasing your skill to a finer degree than other players...the only way you get "better" is by getting better gear.

 

[RedPulse]

I've quit WoW a bit after Cata, Blizzard was making everything so easy

Have you considered that maybe you might be a bit better at a game now that you've been playing it for years?

What's there to be better at in WoW? You know your class, you know what abilities to use and in what order. All that's left is to go to some forum/website to read each boss fight strat and try with the rest of your guild to execute said strat perfectly until you manage to pull it off and the boss goes down.

My point is that you don't really get "better" in WoW in terms of increasing your skill to a finer degree than other players...the only way you get "better" is by getting better gear.

Exactly, and as i said, After Cataclysm(New expansion = Everyone starts from scratch), I guess i had too much of a life to go through all that grinding AGAIN.