My recent lesson in sexual politics

[JustJeff88]

I don't honestly know if "sexual politics" is the right word, but I don't know a better one. By the way, this is going to be a long post, so if you don't want to read it, don't.

I will give you the background as quickly as I can: When I was an undergraduate student the second time (I have a BA and a BS), I met this girl we'll just call L. We had a really good rapport from the first meeting despite a sizable age gap, but she had a serious boyfriend back in her home town and I graduated at the end of her first year. I went to grad school for 2 years where we barely spoke and, after graduating, I came back to the town where I had been an undergrad to live. She was about to start year 4 of a 5-year plan (for those of you not familiar with American universities, 4 years for an undergraduate degree is the "norm" but 5 years, especially for multiple degrees, is quite common) and as we had many mutual friends in the area, we started to see each other sporadically at parties and cultural events. Bit by bit, the romantic tension kind of started to mount. Still, she was seeing this guy who I knew (but thought was kind of a twat) and I didn't make any sort of move.

By summer of 2010, we were talking regularly and it was obvious even to someone as thick as I that she was interested in me. She was still with the twat, though, so I did nothing despite her obvious interest. At one point, she called a mutual friend of ours to get my mobile number and called me out of the blue, which is a first for me, not to mention tremendously flattering. Finally, in early fall, she dumped him and after a few weeks we went out. We really clicked and had a great time, but she was rather distant and I knew that something was amiss. When I tried to set up a follow-up date the next week, she didn't respond. Shortly thereafter, I got a Facebook from her saying that she had fancied me for years and had indeed had a great time, but she was going back to the twat. I've never been flattered and sad at the same time - it's an interesting cocktail of emotions.

We had no contact until June of this year other than a very distant and guarded message to each other when her birthday came 'round in March. I found out that she was graduating and had lined up a great job 800 miles away, and in an uncharacteristic moment of bravery I asked her to my flat the night before she was to leave.

I cooked her the best meal I knew how to prepare, and we had a great time. Eventually, we ended up on the sofa cuddling, then kissing, then making out/snogging very heavily. At one point, she really surprised me by getting up and straddling me and grinding into me while we kissed - I didn't expect her to be so aggressive as she is normally rather quiet. Shortly thereafter, she dropped a bomb on me by intimating VERY strongly, without directly saying, that she wanted to have sex. While I was certainly physically interested and find her very attractive, I wasn't up for it. I wasn't going to have what would ostensibly be a one-night stand with her moving away for good, and for me sex is more about intimacy than physical gratification, so my heart wasn't truly into it. I didn't say anything in response to her proposition and we fooled around for a bit longer before a very long and bittersweet parting in the small hours in the morning.

Well, we agreed to keep in touch after we parted ways, but I tried texting her about 3 or 4 times with no response before giving up. For whatever reason, she clearly didn't want to talk to me. I was really worried that she was upset that I didn't want to make love and felt hurt, unattractive, or whatever, because I've had that happen before with women that I have known.

Well, I posted a more detailed version of this account on another large forum (that will remain nameless) because I wanted a neutral, third-party perspective. I was and still am very sad about how things played out with us because I really think that we would have had a future together, and while I have to make peace with that I didn't want her going away feeling slighted. I was just hoping for some insight, especially from some of the ladies.

I really respected (note the past tense) this forum, but I was rather surprised and dismayed to see a large number of people, in essence, eviscerating me for what I did: all sorts of charming insults, attacks on my character, sexuality, and just a lot of truly charming vitriol. Basically, I was a man who turned down sex with an attractive woman, so apparently I must be punished. Let me firmly reiterate that I do not regret my decision; I have never once looked back on that night and said "Bugger me, I wish that I'd hit that!" What really resonated with me is that several people jumped to my defence and said that if I were a woman talking about a man, the response would have been totally different, which I am certain is a spot-on interpretation of the impetus behind many of the insulting and condescending responses. It truly amazes me that so many people still have that perspective on male sexuality, where a man has to take whatever he can get and he who does not take is not really a man, somehow.

After reading replies for no more than a day I stopped following the thread out of pure exasperation. Now I just sort of half-smile and shake my head when I think of it, because I guess I should have bloody well known better, but it really showed me a unique kind of sexism and that gender stereotypes and the values attached to them haven't much changed in Western society over the last few decades.

Oh, and they also slagged me off for using British English in a post that mentions an American university... apparently the idea of someone emigrating and having dual citizenship never occurred to any of the slavering horde who found my sexual practices unacceptable. Churchill isn't the only one with an American mother, and I make no apologies for my idiolect. I'm also bilingual - thank God I didn't say anything in French or they would have traced my IP, come to my house, and nailed me to a tree.

Edit: First reply has a point that I never considered - this post doesn't really have any discussion value, which is not in the spirit of this forum. I never thought of that while writing it and I am sorry for technically breaking the rules. That said, in order to mould it into legitimate food for thought, do you think that the animosity that I garnered is for the reason that I think, or is there some other sociocultural factor here that I'm missing? It seemed very obvious to me, but perhaps my ill-will towards the original respondents coloured my judgement.

Cheers - and apologies again to the mods for writing a long post that was ironically empty, in a way.

 

[Stoic raptor]

Interesting story. What is the discussion value though?

I guess I will discuss your previous experience with the forum. First of all, its the internet. I know you probably don't like that answer, but there it is. If it counts, the Escapist is the closest to a respectable forum I have seen. But I don't know how other people here will react.

Your not the first person to tell their love problems (would this even be considered a love problem?) on this forum, and some people have gotten sick of it.
And there is also the discussion value. People take a LOT of pride in this forum, and they have really strict rules. One of those rules is, don't make a thread without a discussion value. As in, what was the point? What should we talk about?

Despite all that, there are a lot of people here who help with that sort of problem (I believe there is a continuous thread about peoples relationship problems). Hesitant to say that, as that is not your reason for posting this story.

Also, welcome to the Escapist.

 

[Episode42]

Interesting story. What is the discussion value though?

I guess I will discuss your previous experience with the forum. First of all, its the internet. I know you probably don't like that answer, but there it is. If it counts, the Escapist is the closest to a respectable forum I have seen. But I don't know how other people here will react.

Your not the first person to tell their love problems (would this even be considered a love problem?) on this forum, and some people have gotten sick of it.
And there is also the discussion value. People take a LOT of pride in this forum, and they have really strict rules. One of those rules is, don't make a thread without a discussion value. As in, what was the point? What should we talk about?

Despite all that, there are a lot of people here who help with that sort of problem (I believe there is a continuous thread about peoples relationship problems). Hesitant to say that, as that is not your reason for posting this story.

Also, welcome to the Escapist.

I'm so glad i'm not the only one who read that whole thing, got to the end and thought 'Well that's fascinating, haven't got anything to add though'

 

[Aidinthel]

Rather than "politics" I'd suggest "double standards".

 

[Thaluikhain]

My normal advice for this sort of thing is not to pay too much attention to randoms on internet forums.

Second hand information from someone involved isn't really enough for us to come up with anything terribly in-depth or useful to say.

 

[INF1NIT3 D00M]

Perhaps you should explain your worries to her, ask her if you're correct in your assumption, and offer an apology and explanation. This may or may not be a stupid, terrible idea. It's what I'd do, but I really have no idea whether or not it would really work.

As for the forum thing, I'd say that your experience is a case study in Internet Culture. It doesn't really seem to matter where people are from, the internet community is pretty random in its cruelty. Some people out there are just filled with a terrible rage by relationship questions. Others are merely trying to tease you over your decision because you can't punish them due to anonymity. And still more are trying to help but are most likely buried under trolls. It would probably be easier to talk to a few close friends or even just start a conversation about this with a stranger.

I hope stuff works out for you.

 

[orangeban]

The response you gathered from that other thread seems about on par with some conversations I've had on these forums.

It's definetly a type of misandry, a belief that men are randy bastards and if you're not your either a girl or gay and should therefore be punished. Huh, just noticed that it's not just a misandric thing, it's also misogynistic and homophobic! Hat trick!

Anyway, it's basically anti-slut shaming, where you are shamed for not wanting sex. I know from some conversations that certain people (even fellow males!) believe that it is literally impossible for a man not to want sex with an attractive lady. Which is a really strange idea that should be crushed like a rancid cockroach.

Shame about the girl though, that sounds like it sucks. And welcome to the Escapist!

 

[Jedoro]

Just don't let it get to you at all, people tend to suck. Do what you believe is right (which you did) and live without regret (which you are), and things will at least appear to turn out okay. Only other thing I have to say is that if you still want her, don't stop trying to reach her.

 

[VoidWanderer]

As a guy that believes that women are there for something other than sexual gratification, I think that the guys who attacked you have yet to, emotionally at least, leave High School.

If I was in your situation, I would've responded the way you would have.

 

[Jodah]

I heard this analogy somewhere about the double standard in question:

Men are like keys and women are like locks. If you have a key that opens many locks its a Master Key! If you have a lock that is opened by many keys its a shitty lock!

That being said, women aren't just objects for sexual gratification as many men seem to think.

 

[the spud]

OK, well, I'm not sure why you were expecting good relationship commentary on a site where at least 8% of the users have only had intimate relations with the disc loading tray on their $3000 gaming rig, but whatever.

OT: It is easy to give people that kind of advice when they are giving it to a random stranger, and I doubt most of them really believed that you should do what they were telling you.

 

[targren]

Allow me to be the first to voice an opinion on this matter...

The way I figure is that you rejected her and she moved on, women tend to be a lot more sensitive than guys when it comes to this as we're retarded and will keep trying.

Good point. Another thing to consider is, from the way you described it, you two were pretty close even when you weren't "involved." You both knew she was leaving, which is, as you said, the reason you made the decision that you did. I disagree with your decision, but not for any of the tiny-dicked macho reasons you got flamed by a bunch of probably-high-school-aged trolls for.

Maybe what you rejected as a one-night stand was, to her, a memory that she wanted to bring with her when she was gone.

Just something to think about.

 

[Redford Blade]

Maybe what you rejected as a one-night stand was, to her, a memory that she wanted to bring with her when she was gone.

Just something to think about.

A romantic notion (and I happen to like those), but as Beyonce said, "If you liked it then you shoulda put a ring on it." The OP seems to have been looking for a serious relationship, not to be someone's memorable fling. If that was part of his reasoning, I salute him for his self-respect. If not, I still respect his committment to principle.

TO THE OP:
If I might ask, what type of forum did you originally post to? Obviously I don't need a specific site, I'm just curious as to what "sort" of people you presented this matter to, as that might shed some light on their reactions.

Also, at any point did this woman intimate why she was returning to "the Twat," despite the chemistry between you two?

 

[targren]

Maybe what you rejected as a one-night stand was, to her, a memory that she wanted to bring with her when she was gone.

Just something to think about.

A romantic notion (and I happen to like those), but as Beyonce said, "If you liked it then you shoulda put a ring on it." The OP seems to have been looking for a serious relationship, not to be someone's memorable fling. If that was part of his reasoning, I salute him for his self-respect. If not, I still respect his committment to principle.

Oh, I didn't intend for it to come off as impugning his decision (@OP: I apologize if it did). I just disagreed because, IMO, life is too long to live without good memories waiting for "the one" that may never show up.

What I was more going for was the "What you heard might not have been exactly the same thing as what she was saying," metaphorically speaking.

 

[Nickolai77]

Personally i probably would have done it if i were in your shoes, after all you've known her for quite a while and have a lot of history together, it would have been significant. But if you want to have sex with "the one" instead then that's perfectly fine, i respect that.

In some circles primitive attitudes do exist, where the quality of males for instance may be judged by their sexual prowess for instance. I imagine that's the case with chav's back in the UK, and also with quite a few guy's who you see night-clubing, but certainly not the majority.[footnote]My former house-mate who's doing her year abroad in France reports that they keep the ratio of males to females two females to every male in French nightclubs, and that girls get into clubs free. Apparently in France the whole idea of a nightclub is just to get laid.[/footnote]

I like to think that most Escapists are above all this, but of course that's not going to be the case on some forums.

 

[Sarah Frazier]

The fact that you turned down a one night stand with someone you've been wanting for so long makes you a bigger man than all the others who'd do it and ignore any consequences. There may be a good reason why she isn't responding to you, or she may just be upset that she didn't get one last quick fling before moving away. You're the one who knew her, but sometimes even knowing a person doesn't mean they won't surprise you with something.

Don't completely give up on her. If anything, a quick text every month or so saying "Wish you were here" or something may get her to respond some day even if it's "Go away already".

 

[6unn3r]

As the old saying goes;

You dont know how good you've got somthing until its gone.

I think OP will live to regret not making the most of that night even if he felt that it was amazing, she knew she was leaving and clearly wanted to make the most of the time the two of them had left and she was shot down. Probably making her feel really unwanted.

No mention is made if OP asked WHY she decided to go back to the twat, but there must have been a reason. Might help to find out what that was to shed more light on the matter.

Don't completely give up on her. If anything, a quick text every month or so saying "Wish you were here" or something may get her to respond some day even if it's "Go away already".

Also this, dont give up. You will never know unless you keep trying.

 

[Floppertje]

As the old saying goes;

You dont know how good you've got somthing until its gone.

I think OP will live to regret not making the most of that night even if he felt that it was amazing, she knew she was leaving and clearly wanted to make the most of the time the two of them had left and she was shot down. Probably making her feel really unwanted.

No mention is made if OP asked WHY she decided to go back to the twat, but there must have been a reason. Might help to find out what that was to shed more light on the matter.

Don't completely give up on her. If anything, a quick text every month or so saying "Wish you were here" or something may get her to respond some day even if it's "Go away already".

Also this, dont give up. You will never know unless you keep trying.

I kinda have to disagree there... He's made it clear he wants to stay in contact with her and she ignores him. I'd say it's her turn now to show a sign of life.
Is it really a better idea to keep going after a girl who lives 800 miles away and is apparently no longer interested, than to move on?

@OP: I think you did the right thing but unless she's moving back in the forseeable future or you happen to move closer to her, my advice would be to just let it go. maybe send her an e-mail explaining why you did what you did (or rather didn't) and saying that you're getting the feeling that she's no longer interested and that you're moving on if she really isn't.

Hat's off to you OP, hope I helped a bit.