My Stance on Women in Gaming

[AusGamer44]

Now let me tell you all My Stance on Left Handed People in Gaming.

Are they going to join my hobby, and want all the right-handed joysticks taken away?

Not only that, we're going to censor all depictions of right-handed protagonists. We're also going to write petitions with our left hands everytime a left-handed person is objectified in video games.

No, no, no! That's way too extreme. We should let people choose whether they want to play left-handed or right-handed protagonist. None of that funny ambidextrous business, though. Dualwielding is unnatural and we should take a stance against such unholy filth!

Heh, as a lefthanded woman I am finding this discussion mighty interesting.
Forget our depiction in games,I'd be happy to make it mandatory that every pc game comes with the ability to customize key bindings.
After getting a cramp last week trying to play Murdered Soul Suspect because the game won't let you change the keys(followed by a virus after downloading GlovePie to change them)I'll play the manliest man that ever manned if I can just change the keys.

FWIW,I sometimes enjoy playing as a man as a nice expression of my inner animus, but if the choice is there to be a powerful,interesting female lead, it'a nice thing to explore. If developers can just mix it up a little, I'm happy. Perhaps the problem is not so much a lack of good female protagonists,but a variety in the type of protagonist in different kind of genres in general. How many brown-haired white American dudes have I played while playing FPSES? How many damaged loners in a post-apocaplyptic landscape does it take to kill a zombie? One of the reasons I loved The Walking Dead was the two leads were something you don't see quite as much in those kind of games: an ordinary non-roided black history teacher & a little girl.I'm less concerned with gender these days & just want to play a character with something a bit interesting to offer.And if the story is solid & game mechanics fluid & fun to play, then it's all good.

 

[NPC009]

Any game that have engaging narrative will instantly get the female audiences attention. I don't know if this is enough, but Final Fantasy and the Mass Effect series tend to gather an overwhelmingly good amount of girl fans. Plus, I do check DeviantArt and Twitter all the time, and games like the Metal Gear series, The Elder Scrolls especially, Skyrim, Outlast and Silent Hill series are getting focus for female gamers, artist and cosplays, so I guess that's good enough evidence.

When I had a chance to talk to the producer of the Tales of series we actually talked about this for a bit. Roughly 30% of the Japanese Tales of players are women (most between the age of 15 and 25). While the battle system (in case you're not familiar with the series: imagine a fighting game with RPG elements) is one of the main reason for male players to play these games, most of the women are in it for the characters and the way the interact with eachother. I don't have any data for western players, but I imagine they're not all that different.

As for a purely personal experience: whenever I try to introduce women to gaming, one of their first real questions is: "Why?" Sure, shooting is fun, but why are they shooting? They want to know about the protagonists goals, motivations and so on. I think many women find 'big' games more enjoyable when they require some emotional investment. If someone made a story heavy racing game about a failing race car driver being forced to choose between his passion and his family, and it's up to the player to make that decision through racing and interaction with his friends and family, I think it would attract more female gamers than usual.

 

[nomotog_v1legacy]

You heard it here first ladies! Stick to your Farmvilles and Sims! The other stuff, the vast majority of stuff actually, is for men!

And while we're at it, you should probably stay out of offices and politics. Those are for men too! But there are still plenty of waitress and stripper positions for you!

Okay, now that my snark sponge has been wrung out, do you ever wonder why those genres have more female players? Why they like them more? Perhaps it's less "Ladies just don't like shooters!" And more "Certain aspects of this game or series of games are so hostile and unwelcoming to anything other than straight white males they'd rather go somewhere else".
One of these things is a copout, and the other is a problem. Fortunately it's a solvable problem, but it will take work and change. Unfortunately, those two things few people really like or are willing to do, especially when they're receiving all the benefits of the current status quo.

Yes i am well aware that gamers play what they enjoy playing and that there are plenty of women playing shooters or racers and also plenty of men playing stuff like Sims.
Again since no-one here seems to get this:
I am NOT talking about what games people should or shouldn't play. People should play the games that they think are fun and that they enjoy, not matter the genre or marketing or anything.
I am talking about towards what audience these games are advertised towards or with what audience in mind these games are designed.
My point was, while the majourity of triple A games are designed with men in mind, there are also plenty of games and genre's that are designed with women in mind allready. Additionally there are also games which aren't designed with any specific gender, like Adventure games for example.
But i still don't deny that there are too many games designed with men in mind out there, at least in the AAA space. It would be good to have some of those choose a more gender-neutral approach. With complaints about lacking inclusiveness of big titles like AC we might just get more gender-neutral designed games in AAA in the future. Although i personally don't think that AC was THAT bad to begin with. The protagonist was always male, to be sure, but there were often some badass women in the stories as well.
Personally the most hilarious scene in Black Flag is when Mary Read reveals "surprisingly" that she is a women. It was just so obvious with her body shape and voice that she is a women, i always thought it was more of an inside joke of the pirates that they pretended she was a man. But no they were just idiots the whole time.

What are you trying to say? You have wrote a lot, but I can't really find what your stance is. You say that the majority of AAA games are made for men, but that alone isn't much of a stance. If you want to take a stance, then you need to comment on this. Is it a good thing that AAA games are made for men? A bad thing? Maybe your option is somewhere in-between.

--
In blackflag, The mary read thing well it's more a historical thing. She was a real historical character. I think the game was counting on you knowing who they were before you even played the game.

 

[Amaror]

What are you trying to say? You have wrote a lot, but I can't really find what your stance is. You say that the majority of AAA games are made for men, but that alone isn't much of a stance. If you want to take a stance, then you need to comment on this. Is it a good thing that AAA games are made for men? A bad thing? Maybe your option is somewhere in-between.

--
In blackflag, The mary read thing well it's more a historical thing. She was a real historical character. I think the game was counting on you knowing who they were before you even played the game.

My stance is that having the majourity of AAA games aimed exclusively at men is bad, but i think that it's allready in the process of changing. I think it will take quite some time until the audience AAA games are aimed towards will be truly diverse but we are seeing more and more smaller gender-neutral games and also some games aimed exclusively at women. Basically the current situation isn't good, but it's moving in the right direction as far as i can evaluate it.
Additionally with a lot of criticism towards games like Watchdogs or Shadow of Mordor aimed towards the main character being a bland, grizzled white dude, i think we can hope that AAA may get that we are kindof tired of bland, grizzled, white dudes as protagonists. Maybe.

 

[Vivi22]

My thoughts? As soon as someone needs to say they have a "stance on women in gaming," something is horrifically wrong with the industry.

And I don't view an industry where most of the games that are actually catering to women directly are some of the most vapid and poorly designed F2P garbage as healthy either.

 

[Fox12]

The problem I have is that most of the games you listed for women are casual, and most of the games you listed for men are more hardcore. This is unfortunate, really, and I think it can be improved. But I do see your point.

My main issue, though, is how women are portrayed in games, and not necessarily about meeting a quota for games aimed at women. Lord of the Flies has an all male cast because it targets male sexuality and and violence, and societal breakdown. I don't think adding female characters would have improved the novel. I want creators to be free to make the kind of art they want, without restrictions. I just don't want to see women portrayed in a negative or demeaning light, which is unfortunately common.

 

[visiblenoise]

My main issue, though, is how women are portrayed in games, and not necessarily about meeting a quota for games aimed at women. Lord of the Flies has an all male cast because it targets male sexuality and and violence, and societal breakdown. I don't think adding female characters would have improved the novel. I want creators to be free to make the kind of art they want, without restrictions. I just don't want to see women portrayed in a negative or demeaning light, which is unfortunately common.

What is wrong with portraying things in a negative or demeaning light?

As for women in particular, it's a "trope" to present them as less capable in some way, yes, but it's hardly something you see everywhere.

 

[squid5580]

What exactly is the criteria that makes a game made exclusively for either gender? Last I checked we lived in a world where people of either sex are allowed to enjoy whatever they like. There is female football fans. How can that be if the NFL is exclusively male? Is this all because a few loud people on the internet are being loud about this so-called problem of females being actively excluded because of the character narrative? And the portrayal of said characters? If so then yes I agree there is a problem. But with almost all characters ever. With almost all stories told by games. I have been playing games for a long time and never once has the thought "man this game would have been awesome if the protagonist was a different gender" crossed my mind. On the other hand the thought "man this game would have been so much better if they had hired a real writer rather than renting a bunch of chimps to sit in front of a typewriter" has crossed it many many times.

 

[Quadocky]

My Stance on Women in Gaming:

Video Games are toys, and toys are fun, everybody should be able to enjoy having fun with toys.

 

[Angelowl]

Now let me tell you all My Stance on Left Handed People in Gaming.

Are they going to join my hobby, and want all the right-handed joysticks taken away?

Oh, that's just the beginning.

Before you even know it, they'll be asking for left handed protagonists.

The worst part is, a few pissweak righty traitors will drink the kool aid and start saying that they have a point. That's when things really start to get ugly.

As a bisexual transsexual woman I'd lke to add that I really would like the option to play left handed characters in FPSes and RPGs. How many can you name? There are more transsexual characters than left handed ones, and that is indeed pretty freaking odd.

 

[Fox12]

My main issue, though, is how women are portrayed in games, and not necessarily about meeting a quota for games aimed at women. Lord of the Flies has an all male cast because it targets male sexuality and and violence, and societal breakdown. I don't think adding female characters would have improved the novel. I want creators to be free to make the kind of art they want, without restrictions. I just don't want to see women portrayed in a negative or demeaning light, which is unfortunately common.

What is wrong with portraying things in a negative or demeaning light?

As for women in particular, it's a "trope" to present them as less capable in some way, yes, but it's hardly something you see everywhere.

Because portraying women in a demeaning light is sexist. "Things?" Not so much. People? Yes.

 

[NPC009]

As a bisexual transsexual woman I'd lke to add that I really would like the option to play left handed characters in FPSes and RPGs. How many can you name? There are more transsexual characters than left handed ones, and that is indeed pretty freaking odd.

Link! Guilty Gear's Sol Badguy. New Dante, too, I think. Luke, Yuri and some others from the Tales series. Dunban from Xenoblade Chronicles couldn't use his right arm even if he wanted to.

 

[nightmare_gorilla]

Now let me tell you all My Stance on Left Handed People in Gaming.

Are they going to join my hobby, and want all the right-handed joysticks taken away?

Oh, that's just the beginning.

Before you even know it, they'll be asking for left handed protagonists.

The worst part is, a few pissweak righty traitors will drink the kool aid and start saying that they have a point. That's when things really start to get ugly.

BUT! we already have too many left handed protagonists because i can name one, Link is left handed and he's in like 8 games isn't that enough for you people?

sorry, couldn't resist.

OT: I understand that science can be used as a great tool to help serve the customer base better but i feel like alot of the stuff people complain about comes from some publisher/advertiser going "how are we going to better capture THIS demographic?" it might be interesting as an experiment to just deny any and all demographic info for one year and let game makers make whatever kind of game they want then see who plays what. because in all honesty numbers and statistics don't mean shit to the individual. I've said this a million times before games as a whole are too diverse in nature to describe with any single moniker. i just bought a game on steam where you play as a slice of bread for fucks sake. which is not to say women couldn't be cater to better, i'm all for more female protagonists but i'm also mostly in favor of business serving their customers, if there's a financially significant portion of your market that wants female leads or better written female characters you'd be stupid as a business to NOT try to capture that money. but i also feel that if the bulk of your money comes from a group that would be bothered by a female lead then it's OK not to use one, companies are under no obligation to be "socially progressive" or whatever the term is they are under obligation to make money. it's your job as a consumer to be socially progressive in your buying decisions.

 

[Colour Scientist]

We're also going to write petitions with our left hands everytime a left-handed person is objectified in video games.

Don't worry, no one will be able to read them.

We'll just see about that!

Spoiler

Damnit, foiled again.

 

[Angelowl]

As a bisexual transsexual woman I'd lke to add that I really would like the option to play left handed characters in FPSes and RPGs. How many can you name? There are more transsexual characters than left handed ones, and that is indeed pretty freaking odd.

Link! Guilty Gear's Sol Badguy. New Dante, too, I think. Luke, Yuri and some others from the Tales series. Dunban from Xenoblade Chronicles couldn't use his right arm even if he wanted to.

And all those are japanese games correct? I am laughing at the irony. It is not ok to be left handed in Japan and yet they have better representation. The world is weird at times.

 

[Amaror]

What exactly is the criteria that makes a game made exclusively for either gender? Last I checked we lived in a world where people of either sex are allowed to enjoy whatever they like. There is female football fans. How can that be if the NFL is exclusively male? Is this all because a few loud people on the internet are being loud about this so-called problem of females being actively excluded because of the character narrative? And the portrayal of said characters? If so then yes I agree there is a problem. But with almost all characters ever. With almost all stories told by games. I have been playing games for a long time and never once has the thought "man this game would have been awesome if the protagonist was a different gender" crossed my mind. On the other hand the thought "man this game would have been so much better if they had hired a real writer rather than renting a bunch of chimps to sit in front of a typewriter" has crossed it many many times.

I am not talking about games than can only be enjoyed by one gender, that would be stupid and doesn't exist, but games, as every medium that needs to make money, tend to be aimed towards a specific audience. They are then designed with that audience in mind to increase the profit of the game by getting many people of that audience to buy them.
Of course women can and do enjoy playing Call of Duty, but it's pretty obvious that these games are designed and marketed with a male customer in mind.

 

[NPC009]

As a bisexual transsexual woman I'd lke to add that I really would like the option to play left handed characters in FPSes and RPGs. How many can you name? There are more transsexual characters than left handed ones, and that is indeed pretty freaking odd.

Link! Guilty Gear's Sol Badguy. New Dante, too, I think. Luke, Yuri and some others from the Tales series. Dunban from Xenoblade Chronicles couldn't use his right arm even if he wanted to.

And all those are japanese games correct? I am laughing at the irony. It is not ok to be left handed in Japan and yet they have better representation. The world is weird at times.

Well, the lefties do have an advantage when it comes to swordfighting. Their moves are harder to read. So by making these characters left-handed they're saying: yep, our hero is good with a sword! I think it may have to do with their attitude as well. Many of them don't really care what society tells them (which is why Yuri is the most popular Tales protagonist ever). So, if you are a lefty in a Japanese game you are probably awesome.