My theory as to why all bible games have been terrible.

[TheRundownRabbit]

Dont bet me wrong, i am a catholic but bible video games do suck.

 

[likalaruku]

Hehe, maybe they should try Hindi RPGs, where you can play as a sexy blue skinned god or goddess, or a tanned demigod/demigodess & use unusual kill meathods on monsters, like jumping up & dancing on their heads.

 

[Kramlat]

I agree and disagree with a few things here. First off, It is true in my opinion that Money and power influence what games we get, including vaporware like the games being discussed here, but I disagree on the idea of good religious games being impossible. I have to admit I am not a christian, I am Wiccan actually, but I chose to study the bible so that I can keep the evangelist kind of person from harassing me with his own "Holy" book. What I saw says that most of the bible (if you include the apocrypha) can make an epic Turn-Based-RPG / Action-RPG easily if no political agenda is behind the game while still following the very last verse at the same time (in other words without adding to or taking away from the intended message).

I bet I can make such an epic game in RPG Maker VX-Ace and follow the catholic bible so closely that reading the bible would give massive spoilers and the bible could even be used as a walkthrough. As a matter of fact, I think I will, just as a proof of concept to prove that a really good bible game in fact can be made with very little filler. (I would simply stick the unusable verses in as easter eggs which would be optional and thus only be there for those that really want to see them to find)

The thing I find very offensive in this topic is how many people are attacking each other's religions. Christians, please stop slamming the atheists. Atheists, please stop slamming the Christians. Because I believe that all paths eventually lead to the same place, I see absolutely no point in fighting, deep down almost all of us have the same concept of right and wrong, whether it comes from the law of the land, common sense, or religion, so please stop fighting.

Blessed Be

 

[Monsterfurby]

Let me stop you right there, the reason they're aren't any Bible games(that you know of there are plenty) is because the Bible is clear. Mythology not so much which is why game creators use it as a free idea bin. The Bible being straight forward provides explanation unlike mythology.

Define 'clear'. Its narrative is more focused on the desires and actions of "ordinary" humans (with the New Testament even moving away from the 'chosen people' plot) than on supernatural beings, which makes it harder to adapt in something the mainstream would consider "awesome".

In fact, there's not much room for an action game like God of War here.

BUT, and here's the major caveat: the bible COULD make for very interesting games, especially in the RPG or the strategy gaming department. The actions and motivations of the apostles, even those of Jesus of Nazareth are actually fairly deep and interesting; and many things in the old testament could, when put in a historical context, make for really engaging challenges.

The problem is that to do that, you would have to reinterpret some things. And the organised Christian churches do not like that. We are told that reinterpretation is bad, that we have to follow that one "official" idea that our current faith of choice adheres to. That debate of course massively exceeds the scale of this thread.

Admittedly, ancient Rome and Greece would not have liked reinterpretations of their gods either, but out of the contemporary religions, the two great western strands of monotheism (Christianity and Islam) are the only ones with sacrosanct canon.

Hehe, maybe they should try Hindi RPGs, where you can play as a sexy blue skinned god or goddess, or a tanned demigod/demigodess & use unusual kill meathods on monsters, like jumping up & dancing on their heads.

Asura's Wrath was quite interesting...

 

[Monsterfurby]

You know what I'd like to see? It's clear that you can't make an "action" game out of the bible, but what about a heavy rain inspired drama?

If you look at it from a certain perspective, the story of Jesus can almost be akin to a "greek tragedy". It has betrayal, temptation, redemption, and all sorts of things that make for a great story. However, it would need to focus on the story aspects first, the religious aspects can come in later.

As the story progresses you can switch between Judas Iscariot (who's actually given a backstory in this one), Mary Magdalene (also given more of a backstory), and maybe a Roman Scholar who has a growing fascination studying the jews and their culture.

Maybe (this is just my personal idea, though) instead of focusing on a certain christian sect's belief about Jesus, Jesus could be much more of a background character (he does appear, though he isn't the main mover of the plot) and that each character has a view of Jesus that corresponds to a certain major sect of christianity. For example, while playing as Judas, the interpretation of Jesus would be much more like the Gnostic one. Judas will be played as much more of a "tragic hero", and one of the few who genuinely understands (or thinks he understands) what Jesus is teaching about both the old testament and the new one. While playing as Mary Magdalene Jesus follows a much more Catholic interpretation of him (with, perhaps, a greater emphasis on "good works" then just on "worship God").


Overall, I think a game about the bible could be done, though only if they focus more on the game than the bible.

I once wrote a stageplay on the highly fictionalized life of Pontius Pilatus which went in a similar direction as he tried to understand (from his Romanocentric world-view) why Iesus Nazarenus was such a big deal to the Jews Pilate was supposed to keep an eye on.

But yes, someone needs to make that game you describe. Sounds positively interesting. Also, since fundamentalists everywhere would jump to the pitchforks in an instant, I suppose it would also sell quite well.

 

[Monsterfurby]

Now that I think about it, I'd love to play a game about Judas Iscariot. If done right, it could be one of the greatest stories in modern gaming.

I agree. This would actually be the optimal game to use morality/choices as a primary gameplay element instead of something added on. Sure, that would take some serious thought and would have to be EXTREMELY well-written to catch all aspects of a very complex debate, but there is a lot of potential here. Judas especially has many paths to take, allowing the PLAYER to reflect on their own take on the matter.

Somehow I feel this urge to fire up something like RPG Maker and experiment with storytelling methods that would do justice to this.

Oh, and it should definitely not go like this:

*EDIT*
Fixed the image.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

But the Shin Megami Tensei games are really good!

Oh, you mean actual Bible games?

Well, that kind of speaks for itself, sir.

 

[Cheesepower5]

Now that I think about it, I'd love to play a game about Judas Iscariot. If done right, it could be one of the greatest stories in modern gaming.

I agree. This would actually be the optimal game to use morality/choices as a primary gameplay element instead of something added on. Sure, that would take some serious thought and would have to be EXTREMELY well-written to catch all aspects of a very complex debate, but there is a lot of potential here. Judas especially has many paths to take, allowing the PLAYER to reflect on their own take on the matter.

Somehow I feel this urge to fire up something like RPG Maker and experiment with storytelling methods that would do justice to this.

Oh, and it should definitely not go like this:

*kiss Jesus*

Damn, you guys just mind-stormed up gold. Personally, I'd like a historical fiction/biblical fiction game where you play Moses as an escaped slave/bandit turned general of the Hebrew resistance. It'd be badass.

 

[Reyold]

The reason bible video games generally suck is the same reason that movie videogames suck.

They are about the bible, and about the movie first, rather than being about the game first.

This, as well as rushed development, wrong motives, and other reasons that were already mentioned. I'm inclined to think that, if you going to make a game based on the Bible, you have do a REALLY good job at it to get it to sell, and even then, it'll only appeal to a particular group of people.

As a Christian myself, let me say this: if Christians want to make a positive impact on the gaming industry (well, at least from our perspective, anyway), you have to reverse the problem Thiosk brought up. Make a good game first, then add the religious stuff later (if it fits well). If you cant add the latter, at least you'll have respect for making a good game.

 

[Nieroshai]

Perhaps it's also that a good deal of people are moving towards becoming Atheist or otherwise not part of the main, big religions. Because of this, making a game about the Bible wouldn't go down too well with this growing majority and the game wouldn't sell to well.

So it must be about a religion dying, not about the terrible quality of these cash-ins. And Christianity is on the rise, especially in China. Especially in China. Its illegality is only making it grow faster there than anywhere else.

 

[Nieroshai]

I'm a Christian, so I know well that Christian media companies often just try to rip off something more mainstream and make it more tame and give it some kind of lesson (which is not often scriptural). They do this with a lower budget than their non-Christian counterparts, and what is produced is often a hokey, cheap feeling clone of whatever they were trying to rip off.
They're also often under such creative restraints due to the fact that they have to be so safe as to not offend their target audience (who is easily offended) and those who are funding them (who probably have little knowledge about the medium). I steer clear of media that arise from these types of situations. Christians can be creative and shouldn't isolate themselves.

Thankfully, said target audience is getting less offendable. I think there's so much potential, if only talented people could design the games and not worry about offending the base with the kind of content that's in the Bible itself. I couldn't begin to tell you how many I know who don't realize the Bible if full of gore, death, and sex, all in context of the narrative.

 

[Monsterfurby]

Perhaps it's also that a good deal of people are moving towards becoming Atheist or otherwise not part of the main, big religions. Because of this, making a game about the Bible wouldn't go down too well with this growing majority and the game wouldn't sell to well.

So it must be about a religion dying, not about the terrible quality of these cash-ins. And Christianity is on the rise, especially in China. Especially in China. Its illegality is only making it grow faster there than anywhere else.

The thing is - Atheism is not a non-religion. It is a religious confession like any other, with more informal structures, admittedly, but even Atheism hat its sects and confessions, its leaders and followers, its canon and tradition.

People may shift between religions, but I can only guess that Atheism will see a similar development eventually.

One shouldn't kid oneself - any religious stance that is followed with any sort of certainty (i.e. 'belief') is religion. The only thing that falls out of this is agnosticism ('I don't know' instead of 'I believe) and cynical mock religions.

And then there are Agnostic Theists like myself. Sounds complicated, but summarizes prettily into "Faith in a higher power is a higher power in itself".

 

[Cheesepower5]

Perhaps it's also that a good deal of people are moving towards becoming Atheist or otherwise not part of the main, big religions. Because of this, making a game about the Bible wouldn't go down too well with this growing majority and the game wouldn't sell to well.

So it must be about a religion dying, not about the terrible quality of these cash-ins. And Christianity is on the rise, especially in China. Especially in China. Its illegality is only making it grow faster there than anywhere else.

The thing is - Atheism is not a non-religion. It is a religious confession like any other, with more informal structures, admittedly, but even Atheism hat its sects and confessions, its leaders and followers, its canon and tradition.

People may shift between religions, but I can only guess that Atheism will see a similar development eventually.

One shouldn't kid oneself - any religious stance that is followed with any sort of certainty (i.e. 'belief') is religion. The only thing that falls out of this is agnosticism ('I don't know' instead of 'I believe) and cynical mock religions.

And then there are Agnostic Theists like myself. Sounds complicated, but summarizes prettily into "Faith in a higher power is a higher power in itself".

There are agnostic atheists, as well. Agnosticism isn't a position so much as an admission of ignorance on the matter.

 

[Monsterfurby]

There are agnostic atheists, as well. Agnosticism isn't a position so much as an admission of ignorance on the matter.

Absolutely, if there can be agnostic theists, there have to be agnostic atheists as well
What I am saying is that agnosticism, by default, doesn't lend itself as well to the kind of ideological warfare for example many atheists are just as good at as many christians.

But yeah, I might be generalizing a bit too much, because one thing is true for human nature in general: once you apply a label to yourself, you are hardwired to defend it, teeth and nails and all. That's how very nasty things get started, just post something about games not being art in this forum and watch gamers descend on you.

 

[skywolfblue]

1) Right off the bat, over half the gaming population hates the game, simply for being about the bible.

2) Take too many liberties and it ceases being a game about the bible to being "we bastardized elements from the bible and twisted them for our own benefit" or "to make it fit".

3) Take too few, and it becomes too rigid a framework for most gameplay.

If you manage to survive that minefield you still have to go through:

EDIT: I would like to point out that there are plenty of stories from the Old Testament that would make great games, but unfortunately the violence in them would only feed the ignorance that inspires people to claim modern Christianity as a religion of violence. It would be awesome, but it would not be a good idea.

^ That.

If the game is violent, people go on a rampage claiming that Christianity is brutal.
If the game is non-violent, people complain that it's boring.

There are already a few posts on this thread that fell into that trap. Ignoring the whole point of Christianity (Hint: Love thy neighbor) they point to some of the violence of the old testament and use that to paint Christians with.

 

[thiosk]

snip

Epic Necromancy.
This thread hath risen from teh deadzz.

The reason bible video games generally suck is the same reason that movie videogames suck.

They are about the bible, and about the movie first, rather than being about the game first.

That's pretty much it right there. Like movie games, they're just quick and crappy cash-ins to rake in some dough from unsuspecting consumers.

Also, I have a very hard time figuring out what kind of genre a GOOD bible game would be, and what the objectives would be?

A noah's ark simulator.
You gotta build a boat, manage the animals, then manage to get them on board and survive the flood.
Could you imagine the management nightmare of having to keep the lions from eating the kangaroos while keeping everyone fed for 40 days?

also: all bible games must include the following:
You have died.
Press X to resurrect.