Just an FYI, I don't think the movie is that great, but you do see these events you're interested in.Ezekiel said:
My thoughts on Alien Covenant
- Thread starter Natemans
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There's an inherent problem to explaining something whose strength comes from its ambiguity. All I have to say is "midichlorians" and I'm sure many are on the same page. It's particularly fitting as Scott wants the Alien series to be as prolific as Star Wars (apparently the success of the first SW is why [http://www.blastr.com/2015-9-14/ridley-scott-reveals-how-star-wars-was-responsible-birth-alien] he took on the movie to begin with).
Even putting that aside, this was a poorly executed movie. I know no one's name. Nobody's. I had difficulty keeping track of who was married to who. I didn't care when a character's death was telegraphed over a minute ahead of time in an incredibly obvious way, destroying any tension, suspense or fear. Fassbender is again the best part, but that's because he's really the only one given a chance. Everything else is sped by so quickly that the actors really aren't given the time to stretch their muscles. This crew is even less competent than the Prometheus' crew, far more than can be explained by them being civilians. It can be explained by "this is a toperific movie and the audience demands blood." It's pretty, but that's it.
To top it all off, the core thrust of the movie is a poorly executed bad idea. The aliens were created by a Weyland-Yutani android over the course of a decade between 2094 and 2104 CE. They are the result of a goo made by our creators who were pissed off we killed Jesus. The religious symbolism in Alien 3 taken to an extreme conclusion.
The infuriating thing is so many responses to any criticisms (at least the ones I've seen) use the canonical explanations to shut down criticisms, showing they totally missed the point. I'm not ignorant of the explanations, it's the explanations themselves and the motivations behind them I take issue with. They're awful, terrible explanations that are actively making the original movie worse by association.
Just wait until it's explained the ship on LV-426 was only 10 years old when it was found by the Nostromo, the creature created by humans in a roundabout way only 20 years prior. The pilot a malformed human, not a cargo pilot caught in the midst of an ancient war or even something else. The originally perfectly coherent English distress signal messed up beyond belief for plot reasons, not the remnants of a long-lost civilization laid to waste by unknown methods.
Even putting that aside, this was a poorly executed movie. I know no one's name. Nobody's. I had difficulty keeping track of who was married to who. I didn't care when a character's death was telegraphed over a minute ahead of time in an incredibly obvious way, destroying any tension, suspense or fear. Fassbender is again the best part, but that's because he's really the only one given a chance. Everything else is sped by so quickly that the actors really aren't given the time to stretch their muscles. This crew is even less competent than the Prometheus' crew, far more than can be explained by them being civilians. It can be explained by "this is a toperific movie and the audience demands blood." It's pretty, but that's it.
To top it all off, the core thrust of the movie is a poorly executed bad idea. The aliens were created by a Weyland-Yutani android over the course of a decade between 2094 and 2104 CE. They are the result of a goo made by our creators who were pissed off we killed Jesus. The religious symbolism in Alien 3 taken to an extreme conclusion.
The infuriating thing is so many responses to any criticisms (at least the ones I've seen) use the canonical explanations to shut down criticisms, showing they totally missed the point. I'm not ignorant of the explanations, it's the explanations themselves and the motivations behind them I take issue with. They're awful, terrible explanations that are actively making the original movie worse by association.
Just wait until it's explained the ship on LV-426 was only 10 years old when it was found by the Nostromo, the creature created by humans in a roundabout way only 20 years prior. The pilot a malformed human, not a cargo pilot caught in the midst of an ancient war or even something else. The originally perfectly coherent English distress signal messed up beyond belief for plot reasons, not the remnants of a long-lost civilization laid to waste by unknown methods.
Maybe David didn't actually invent the Xenomorph; he just thought he did. They're an already-known product of the Engineer's experiments, and David just futzes around with the black goo until he makes an alien that it was already designed to make and then throws his arms up in the air and shouts "Lo! I am become God!"Exley97 said:
It'd be in-character for the guy. He misquotes Ozymandias at one point, doesn't he?
Sure, but...it still feels like there was a whole lot of explanation missing. For example, we're led to believe that David somehow designed and created the classic egg and facehugger -- but why would he go through the trouble of creating a needless stage of evolution for the Xenomorph if the spores can give birth to a full alien (secretly and more quickly, BTW) *without* the need for the facehugger? Aren't the spores the ideal delivery system? Also...how did the spores come to be? Did David create them? If that's the case, then creating the eggs/facehuggers combo makes even *less* sense. Or were they created inadvertently when he release the ship's cannisters on the engineers? And if that's the case, then why did THAT ooze petrify only the engineers and mutate other living things into Xenomorphic creatures? I can only assume given the discrepancies that there are different versions of the black ooze, but the movie, despite giving us ample background into David's plans, never really clarifies this point.bastardofmelbourne said:
Also, this has really been bugging -- where are the rest of the engineers? They only have one city on their entire planet? Or did a single ship wipe out the entire species across the planet? Why did they let the juggernaut ship land? They're an incredibly advanced species, yet they have no planetary defense system and no way of knowing who (or who isn't) piloting that ship? They just let a ship fly right in?
Well their are a few answers to this one, firstly NO the spore delivery system is not the best way. The movie should have gone in to a bit more detail but I am assuming that the spore delivery system was less a version created by David and more likely a result of him dumping the Alien goo in to the atmosphere, the result being that some plant became infected and created the spore plant we saw in the movie. At least that is what it looked liked. The main issue with that is that with it being a plant chances are it is subject environmental effects, weather temp, location. I would also assume that EVA suits or any full respo system would stop the spore dead. I would also assume that once ejected the spore probabaly doesn't have much time to find a host and the final resulting alien is clearly smaller less well developed and given that it is white probably not anywhere near as well armoured as the traditional Xenomorph.
The egg facehugger combo firstly gives a delivery system, the egg, that is much more hardy. They are generally laid in locations that mean they will survive for a large period of time. I would have to go looking but it seems the eggs are capable of surviving for a very long time if laid in the right location. They can also be carried or moved by the Xenos, again I am sure I saw this somewhere before but would have to go look. The facehugger itself isn't limited by evo suits, is also capable of surviving for periods of time outside the egg, is much more capable of hunting down and finding as well as evading a target and the final Alien it produces is clearly a much better developed version of the Xeno.
Prometheus shows that the black goo has different effects on different living species, it seems to break down or petrify the Engineers but seems to have mutagenic effects on other species and living matter. The really confusing thing about the whole black goo thing is that it is seen as some sort of WMD in Prometheus but the effects of the stuff are so utterly random no one with even an inch of sense would use it as a weapon because they wouldn't have a fucking clue what it would do.
The theory kicking about is that these where not the engineers we know, i.e the one from Alien and Prometheus that iinstead they were some sort of slave or subserveant class that either worshipped or relied on the Space Jockeys hence why they almost seem ed to be worshipping the ship as it came in to 'land'. Whatever the reason it is certainly something that requires good deal more explanation.
Man, this movie is horrible. I was expecting for a great movie, that will recover the title of the Alien franchise, but it all started with Angry Joe's review & then I started to realize how they've messed it all up. I've even decided to order an essay on how bad it actually sucks at handmadewritings.com [https://handmadewritings.com/] because I actually don't have any words to describe it myself, let the pro's do their job. This franchise is dead since Alien 3, and the dancing on its grave Aliens colonial marines, & stuff like this totally makes me forget about any kind of hope for it. IMHO
Honestly, this movie was pretty much exactly what I was expecting it to be. It's visually interesting, but seriously lacking in depth when it comes to characters and story.
Not to mention there's a bunch of stuff in it, nitpicky things, that bugged me quite a bit.
Not to mention there's a bunch of stuff in it, nitpicky things, that bugged me quite a bit.
---A ship with 2000 colonists, out in the middle of nowhere, years away from home/help... only has one shuttle? Really? REALLY? The Colonial Marines brought a spare dropship, and go figure, it came in handy. Redundancy is super important when you're years away from help.
---You're going to risk your one and only shuttle flying through a severe hurricane? Okay... couldn't you have just, like... waited for it to pass? It's established later that you didn't know how long storms last on this planet. For all you knew, that storm was going to pass in an hour or two, but hey, let's throw our shuttle right on into that shit, everything'll be fine!
---What's the deal with the ship's captain always joining the away team? This seems like a SUPER bad idea, yet this trope is everywhere.
---No environment suits? Really? I mean, sure... the air is breathable and whatnot... but what about bacteria and allergens? You brought along a biologist to poke around at stuff, and she had no objections to this? Are you sure she actually earned her degree/doctorate? I mean, I've seen people put on full HAZMAT suits to clean hotel rooms, nevermind land on alien planets that nothing is known about. The average janitor takes more safety precautions than these people.
---The AR-15 platform is apparently still being used for new rifles, 80+ years in the future. Not outside the realm of possibility... just kinda boring.
---Did nobody ever go over containment procedures with any of the Covenant's crew? I mean, I can't really fault Covenant specifically, since Dallas and Lambert were pretty quick to break quarantine too. Maybe it's a company-wide problem with Weyland/Yutani.
---Way to go, Tennessee! Risk the structural integrity of the Covenant, putting the lives of all the colonists at risk, to maybe save a couple of the away team? Real officer material, right there! Par for the course for Weyland/Yutani, apparently.
---Whose genius idea was it to put the husband of the shuttle's pilot in a position of authority with a responsibility to protect the colonists? Conflict of interests, much?
---There are scary monsters out there killing everyone... LET'S SPLIT UP, GANG!
---Do any of these red shirts even have names? IMDB says they do... but I honestly couldn't attach a name to a face outside of the main characters while I was watching the damn movie.
---Monsters take dozens of hits from assault rifles and shotguns, not slowing down at all. Fine. Maybe those guns just don't fire particularly powerful rounds. The Pulse Rifles seemed to have no problem, but then, those were firing explosive-tipped light armor piercing rounds. Maybe the Covenant was stocked with airsoft rifles.
---Monster is killed by just a few hits from one of the Covenant's airsoft rifles, because it's plot-important, and the shooter is one of the named hero characters.
---Named hero character immediately has his hero character status revoked in the dumbest possible way. A suspicious-behaving robot freaks out and starts acting all shady - then asks the acting captain to shove his head inside a giant fleshy pod - on a planet already established to have all sorts of deadly biological weapons and monsters (which are ACTIVELY KILLING HIS TEAM) - and the response ISN'T riddling the robot with airsoft pellets? No wonder the acting captain risks everyone's well-being on checking out this planet, the dude has no sense of self-preservation.
---More advanced robot, with apparently different structural weaknesses (which are shown to be unknown to the less advanced robot), is somehow defeated by the less advanced robot. Alrighty. Possible, but dumb. I guess David scored a lucky critical hit.
---Robot switcheroo! Who didn't see this "plot twist" coming? The hair cutting scene pretty much SCREAMED that this was going to happen sooner or later.
---Boy, that alien sure did get big fast. I mean, the franchise has always been a little iffy on the timetables when it came to the Xenomorph lifespan... but geez! That thing went from being the size of a little yappy dog to full-grown in, what? 20 minutes?
---Creature is killed by... THE CLAW!
---Daniels isn't showered with pressurized acid? At that distance? 'Kay...
---David cuts off his own hand to mimic Walter. Makes sense, and is easy enough to accomplish with that big knife he had. But how did he manage to conceal the hole in his chin from the nail necklace that Daniels stabbed him with? If David didn't conceal it, how did Daniels NOT notice it while patching up his face? If Daniels is suspicious of the robot, which she CLEARLY is initially, why did she completely ignore this wound? Did David pull a Face/Off and switch faces with Walter so he wouldn't have the chin wound? If yes, how did Daniels not notice THAT? Clearly these robots don't instantly heal physical damage.
---Not really a problem with the movie, but I want to see the conversation Daniels would have needed to have with the colonists whose trucks and building supplies she blew out the airlock. "Yeeeeah.... soooo, we went off-course without consulting anyone, based on a whim from acting-captain Dumbshit - oh, did I mention that my husband, the actual captain, was cooked alive in his stasis pod that the company assured you was perfectly safe? Anywho... we found this random planet that no one noticed before 'cause they were having a kickass concert, and Tennesse is like, a HUGE John Denver fan, so we had to stop. Denver was already playing, so we skipped the environment suits to get there faster. Long story short... the shuttle is gone, everyone who went down there is dead, we traded our robot for an older model with better musical taste, and let a monster on the ship that stole a pair of our trucks. And that, Mr. and Mrs. Jones, is why we can no longer build your home."
---You're going to risk your one and only shuttle flying through a severe hurricane? Okay... couldn't you have just, like... waited for it to pass? It's established later that you didn't know how long storms last on this planet. For all you knew, that storm was going to pass in an hour or two, but hey, let's throw our shuttle right on into that shit, everything'll be fine!
---What's the deal with the ship's captain always joining the away team? This seems like a SUPER bad idea, yet this trope is everywhere.
---No environment suits? Really? I mean, sure... the air is breathable and whatnot... but what about bacteria and allergens? You brought along a biologist to poke around at stuff, and she had no objections to this? Are you sure she actually earned her degree/doctorate? I mean, I've seen people put on full HAZMAT suits to clean hotel rooms, nevermind land on alien planets that nothing is known about. The average janitor takes more safety precautions than these people.
---The AR-15 platform is apparently still being used for new rifles, 80+ years in the future. Not outside the realm of possibility... just kinda boring.
---Did nobody ever go over containment procedures with any of the Covenant's crew? I mean, I can't really fault Covenant specifically, since Dallas and Lambert were pretty quick to break quarantine too. Maybe it's a company-wide problem with Weyland/Yutani.
---Way to go, Tennessee! Risk the structural integrity of the Covenant, putting the lives of all the colonists at risk, to maybe save a couple of the away team? Real officer material, right there! Par for the course for Weyland/Yutani, apparently.
---Whose genius idea was it to put the husband of the shuttle's pilot in a position of authority with a responsibility to protect the colonists? Conflict of interests, much?
---There are scary monsters out there killing everyone... LET'S SPLIT UP, GANG!
---Do any of these red shirts even have names? IMDB says they do... but I honestly couldn't attach a name to a face outside of the main characters while I was watching the damn movie.
---Monsters take dozens of hits from assault rifles and shotguns, not slowing down at all. Fine. Maybe those guns just don't fire particularly powerful rounds. The Pulse Rifles seemed to have no problem, but then, those were firing explosive-tipped light armor piercing rounds. Maybe the Covenant was stocked with airsoft rifles.
---Monster is killed by just a few hits from one of the Covenant's airsoft rifles, because it's plot-important, and the shooter is one of the named hero characters.
---Named hero character immediately has his hero character status revoked in the dumbest possible way. A suspicious-behaving robot freaks out and starts acting all shady - then asks the acting captain to shove his head inside a giant fleshy pod - on a planet already established to have all sorts of deadly biological weapons and monsters (which are ACTIVELY KILLING HIS TEAM) - and the response ISN'T riddling the robot with airsoft pellets? No wonder the acting captain risks everyone's well-being on checking out this planet, the dude has no sense of self-preservation.
---More advanced robot, with apparently different structural weaknesses (which are shown to be unknown to the less advanced robot), is somehow defeated by the less advanced robot. Alrighty. Possible, but dumb. I guess David scored a lucky critical hit.
---Robot switcheroo! Who didn't see this "plot twist" coming? The hair cutting scene pretty much SCREAMED that this was going to happen sooner or later.
---Boy, that alien sure did get big fast. I mean, the franchise has always been a little iffy on the timetables when it came to the Xenomorph lifespan... but geez! That thing went from being the size of a little yappy dog to full-grown in, what? 20 minutes?
---Creature is killed by... THE CLAW!
---Daniels isn't showered with pressurized acid? At that distance? 'Kay...
---David cuts off his own hand to mimic Walter. Makes sense, and is easy enough to accomplish with that big knife he had. But how did he manage to conceal the hole in his chin from the nail necklace that Daniels stabbed him with? If David didn't conceal it, how did Daniels NOT notice it while patching up his face? If Daniels is suspicious of the robot, which she CLEARLY is initially, why did she completely ignore this wound? Did David pull a Face/Off and switch faces with Walter so he wouldn't have the chin wound? If yes, how did Daniels not notice THAT? Clearly these robots don't instantly heal physical damage.
---Not really a problem with the movie, but I want to see the conversation Daniels would have needed to have with the colonists whose trucks and building supplies she blew out the airlock. "Yeeeeah.... soooo, we went off-course without consulting anyone, based on a whim from acting-captain Dumbshit - oh, did I mention that my husband, the actual captain, was cooked alive in his stasis pod that the company assured you was perfectly safe? Anywho... we found this random planet that no one noticed before 'cause they were having a kickass concert, and Tennesse is like, a HUGE John Denver fan, so we had to stop. Denver was already playing, so we skipped the environment suits to get there faster. Long story short... the shuttle is gone, everyone who went down there is dead, we traded our robot for an older model with better musical taste, and let a monster on the ship that stole a pair of our trucks. And that, Mr. and Mrs. Jones, is why we can no longer build your home."
Saw RLM review of Alien: Covenant and, damn, it dissapointed me before the movie even had a chance.
To put things in perspective, i didn't hate Prometheus; it was a well-made movie that suffered from nearly all the characters having some kind of brain damage. It did remove some of the mystery surrounding Engineers, but for the better or worse, atleast the ending promised next movie dwelving deeper into their motives. But the actual resolve, spoiled thankfully for me in aforementioned review?
Even pushing aside fucking with the canon, the setup feels so weak... i've decided i'm done with this franchise for now.
To put things in perspective, i didn't hate Prometheus; it was a well-made movie that suffered from nearly all the characters having some kind of brain damage. It did remove some of the mystery surrounding Engineers, but for the better or worse, atleast the ending promised next movie dwelving deeper into their motives. But the actual resolve, spoiled thankfully for me in aforementioned review?
Shaw dies offscreen, and David kills the remaining Engineers, and then creates xenomorph himself. Then we spend rest of the movie on usual Alien shenanigans(Monster gets out, crew's being taken out one by one) and some philosophical pondering thrown in for good measure.
Oh, and i almost forgot: You recall that one scene in Prometheus(among other) that attracted some fuss, when the crew of skilled scientists and space explorers, recklessly removes their helmets as soon as they learn the atmosphere is breathable? Well, this time they didn't even bother with helmets. And that's what kills them. It's like the writers realized how dumb that part in the previous movie was and decided to deliberately top it.
Oh, and i almost forgot: You recall that one scene in Prometheus(among other) that attracted some fuss, when the crew of skilled scientists and space explorers, recklessly removes their helmets as soon as they learn the atmosphere is breathable? Well, this time they didn't even bother with helmets. And that's what kills them. It's like the writers realized how dumb that part in the previous movie was and decided to deliberately top it.
I feel like a lot of questions about this movie can be answered with "it is a bad movie."Exley97 said:
Honestly, I don't know what Ridley Scott is even doing with the franchise. Why does it even still exist?
Like, they had two good films by different directors, then two shitty films, then a long-ass gap and all of the sudden Scott's decided that Aliens is the next big franchise thing and now there's Aliens shit all around the place, and all I can think of is why? What's the point of this story? It's a story about humanity trying to find God, except God got killed by evil aliens, except then it turns out that the evil aliens were made by an android who was made by a douchebag who wanted to be immortal. It's a big fucking ouroboros of "what."
I almost feel like they should've just put some Predators in there, just to make things interesting again.