Maybe you should retake that history class friend. You didn't supply anyone out of the goodness of your heart, you sold weapons kinda like how you "supplied" the Egyptian "leaders" until they were just recently overthrown. The Canadians actually penetrated their beachhead first and went in deeper at the end of D-day. They were also the ones to defeat (along with the Polish and the Brits) Hitler's personal gaurd/regiment of the ss, the 12SS Panzer Division, and the Panzer Lehr Division (one of the most elite armored divisions). There was another fight whose name I can't remember or find but the Canadians managed to capture a ridge where everyone else failed. Oh and lets not forget the polish. They were one of if not the strongest of the "Russian" Divisions (even though they were given nothing to work with). The Poles were also instrumental in the Battle of Britian getting the highest kill count of any of the other Flying Divisions. So get your ego in check. Ya you guys help, but don't go stating you were some gigantic turning point or you did a LARGER share than everyone else. America didn't spend years fighting like everyone else and just came in at the end, when the Germans were already losing.superbowlbound said:
Nationalism - I Can't Stand it
- Thread starter Maveroid
- Start date
Recommended Videos
However patriotism and nationalism are as far as I'm concerned both detrimental as they elevate your country above all others, either passively or actively which does not bode well for good relations, unless you want to be a knob at which point, go nuts.
On a side note most of the people commentating on WWII need some more history lessons because they are either wrong or ignorant of other facts, choosing only the ones that suit their argument.
Also I love how the guy who was trying to correct someone's spelling made their point by saying lrn2spell... I'm sorry but what the fuck? You need grammar and spelling lessons!
On a side note most of the people commentating on WWII need some more history lessons because they are either wrong or ignorant of other facts, choosing only the ones that suit their argument.
Also I love how the guy who was trying to correct someone's spelling made their point by saying lrn2spell... I'm sorry but what the fuck? You need grammar and spelling lessons!
Someone doesn't know what they're talking about! We're well aware that Hitler was successful in conquering most of Europe before Japan went and pissed us off. How can you even say we rewrote history about Pearl Harbor?! There are still living veterans who were there. I believe them over a European dude who doesn't even know their history. Remember how we sold you weapons and ammunition to fight your war with? You're welcome. Remember the Normandy Invasion? You're welcome. Remember how we rebuilt your war-torn country for you? You're welcome. Remember how your country still hasn't paid us back for that, but we don't bug you about it? You're welcome. Oh, and those bombs that kept your country from being wiped off the face of the Earth by the Nazis or the Soviets? You're welcome.Regnes said:
Also, anyone who has ever played an FPS knows we give no shortage of credit to the Russians. World at War anyone?
America.
Europe is great, very pretty, but America.
I am incredibly patriotic! So much so I joined the military! But I don't look down on other countries... I will see where a country doesn't do as well as us, but also where a country does better... I have worked with a multitude of countries however! And they all have strengths...
Although, as I said, I am in the militry, and have more of a relationship with the US, Canada, New Zealand and Australia than everyone else!
Although, as I said, I am in the militry, and have more of a relationship with the US, Canada, New Zealand and Australia than everyone else!
superbowlbound said:
You are kidding right? almost 10 000 allied troops died and that's successful ? D Day was a horrible day and your disrespect towards it shows how messed up Americans can be. America also didn't "supply" everyone yes their munitions were used but we paid for.. also ww1? you ... you can't take credit for anything. You aren't the entire military....
how about we dig to the most recent wars to show how far you have fallen from glory, Vietnam ?
how about the bay of pigs invasion? how about Iraq.... hmmm I think the brief moments of heroism is severely outweighed by the team america warfare going on in developing nations to steal what little wealth they have for itself.
Also, I dislike egotistical nationalism, but I appreciate the shared culture that the concept of nationhood embraces. I like the idea of a French nation made up of French people doing French things, but I don't think that being French or not is a good reason to say that you're better than somebody or a group of people, nor should nations be able to leverage political power in quite the way they do.
Well, if you want to be technical, Perl Harbor is a proper noun, which is based off of the American English spelling "harbor." So referencing it as Pearl Harbour would be technically incorrect. "Pearl Harbor has a harbour" would be correct.Phasmal said:
The root of the problem is collectivism. Someone assumes that, if they belong to a particular group, they somehow absorb the greatness of exceptional members of that group. So the Wright brothers made the first controlled heavier-than-air flight, does that make all people from Kitty Hawk, NC awesome? I'm a huge fan of Nikolai Tesla. does that make all Serbians super-geniuses? Of course not.
In short, nationalism, racial identity, and any other ideology - that assumes attributes based on whatever group someone belongs to, is a sub-standard substitute for ones own personal achievement or ability.
I'm an American and it doesn't mean a damn thing unless I do something about it.
In short, nationalism, racial identity, and any other ideology - that assumes attributes based on whatever group someone belongs to, is a sub-standard substitute for ones own personal achievement or ability.
I'm an American and it doesn't mean a damn thing unless I do something about it.
Meh, the internet is the ultimate voice for your opinions. The only problem is, that everyone else has the same idea.
Paitriotism is pretty cool, but nationalism is not the bee's knees! Also for nationalism I blame the French and Brits!!!!!!!!! (I'm joking)
Well I certainly can't deny that I haven't had bad thoughts of some countries especially one in particular (not naming who, but its my countries neighbour that we send all our oil to). But then when I look at some of the idiots of a country, I don't see the country itself to blame, but the person/people who are doing it....unless that person is the one leading the country...shutter*
Personally, I don't see what's so bad about making statements against a certain culture - provided it's solely about the culture.
For example, I don't like some of the cultural aspects of England: we often complain a lot about a lot of different things but we're all so jaded that we don't actually do anything about it. Similarly, I dislike how in a lot of places of Germany you cannot even mention Hitler as a point of comparison or the point of some joke without people drilling holes through your face with their eyes. However, I do like a lot of the German straightforwardness and I do like England trying to embrace a more multicultural future.
Similarly, if you were to hear me say "I hate such-and-such about America!" I'll often mean certain aspects of American culture: such as the views many American people hold over what constitutes reasonable force: "if a kid breaks into my house, he's probably got a harpoon-gun up his sleeve, so you should hoot him before he shoots you!"
This is not to say that all individuals from this group exhibit the same personality traits, but something which is encouraged or discouraged by certain parts of the history and surrounding culture.
However, this is all a lot to say, so it's much easier to say "I hate fat Americans!" and expand (heh) on the point if someone challenges it.
For example, I don't like some of the cultural aspects of England: we often complain a lot about a lot of different things but we're all so jaded that we don't actually do anything about it. Similarly, I dislike how in a lot of places of Germany you cannot even mention Hitler as a point of comparison or the point of some joke without people drilling holes through your face with their eyes. However, I do like a lot of the German straightforwardness and I do like England trying to embrace a more multicultural future.
Similarly, if you were to hear me say "I hate such-and-such about America!" I'll often mean certain aspects of American culture: such as the views many American people hold over what constitutes reasonable force: "if a kid breaks into my house, he's probably got a harpoon-gun up his sleeve, so you should hoot him before he shoots you!"
This is not to say that all individuals from this group exhibit the same personality traits, but something which is encouraged or discouraged by certain parts of the history and surrounding culture.
However, this is all a lot to say, so it's much easier to say "I hate fat Americans!" and expand (heh) on the point if someone challenges it.
OP isn't really describing nationalism. Nationalism is about how you identify yourself (as in your national/racial group) and is far more complicated than mere boundaries or borders. Nationalism as it is understood as a political movement (for example National Socialism) is different to the political theories of nationalism (how nations develop as a coherent idea).
For more see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalism or http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/nationalism/ (this one is better but wikipedia is the norm)
Interesting point is how the development of nations doesn't always occur in symbiosis with the success of political nationalist groups even when the nation is recognised in other ways.
OP is talking more about racism/jingoism/patriotism which is different.
Also; can we have some thread discussing politics which doesn't end up mentioning world wars. This is worse than mentioning the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to international relations students or putting something up on the topic on the guardian website.
For more see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalism or http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/nationalism/ (this one is better but wikipedia is the norm)
Interesting point is how the development of nations doesn't always occur in symbiosis with the success of political nationalist groups even when the nation is recognised in other ways.
OP is talking more about racism/jingoism/patriotism which is different.
Also; can we have some thread discussing politics which doesn't end up mentioning world wars. This is worse than mentioning the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to international relations students or putting something up on the topic on the guardian website.
Wow, and here i thought that several internet denizens could come together and share ideas without a nationalistic outburst...you proved me wrong within 5 posts.superbowlbound said:
Completly understandable. No one wants to be paired with them!!!!! (I'm kidding, I'm atleast 10% French)Thyunda said:
Harbour is the ENGLISH spelling, y'know that language you speak. Don't be so quick to correct people, you may end up looking slightly foolish... Yes you may argue Pearl Harbour is an American landmark but harbour is not a proper noun in this case therefore it would be appropriate to spell it Harbour if you were English.superbowlbound said:
Your post was not unreasonable, but very incongruent with your title. What you were saying though viewed countries as entities in themselves. If the objective of not insulting other countries is that it hurts the feelings of the people in those countries, then this requites nationalism. You need to love your country to be offended by someone insulting it.Maveroid said:
I think nationalism in the globalised world is a force for good. Since everyone knows everything about other countries, the people of nation-states want their country to be viewed favourably internationally. The international community generally views environmental responsibility, peaceful conflict resolution, and respect for human rights quite favourably. So in this sense globalisation makes nationalism a force for promoting these and other positive values throughout the world.