Nazi-Chic and Popular Culture

[Ryan Hughes]

So, I was discussing the anime Attack on Titan with a friend, (I have not seen the end yet, so spoiler tags please) when he brought up the fact that though the liked he show, he was disappointed in its references to German totalitarianism, and by extension, fascism. I disagreed that it referenced this, though it took me a few days of thinking about it to really plumb the reasons why.

In a wider view, Nazi symbolism has returned to many parts of pop culture, I remember this thread here on the Escapist:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.856708-Its-Not-Like-I-Reich-You-Or-Anything?page=1
Where people had some fun bringing up odd references to Nazism in Dating Sims and Visual Novels, not to mention various types of "cultural whitewashing" in pop culture at large. This really got me thinking.

Let's start with Titan, 1) Simply because someone is German and in the military does not mean they are a Nazi. 2) If the intent of the authors was to somehow whitewash Nazism, why on earth would they name singly the most competent character after the tribe of Moses' brother. The tribe of Levi was traditionally the tribe of the priests of Israel and Judea. More than merely Hebrew, they represented everything the Nazis hated about Judaism.

While on the surface things like Black-and-Red uniforms and armbands may be disturbing, there may be more going on than meets the eye. The vigilance of people concerned with wiping out antisemitism is appreciated, and with dog whistle-style texts like Mel Gibson's Passion of the Christ still in the mainstream, perhaps we are right to be vigilant. But I think I would argue that this has less to do with antisemitism and more to do with a cultural re-appropriation of various symbols used by the Nazis. Take this clip from Slavoj Zizek:


To paraphrase if you didn't watch the clip: "Stripping these minimal elements of Nazi ideology and enjoying them in their pre-ideological state may in fact be the ultimate victory against Nazism." How long are we going to refer to the facial hair as the "Hitler Mustache" and not the "Charlie Chaplin." It is important to remember that these elements have little-to-no ideological meaning in-and-of themselves, but were merely at one time appropriated into the vast system of European Fascism. This has changed what they signify, but we may be seeing a re-adjustment of that signification, and this may -in turn- be completely separate from Nazi ideology.

Obviously, I have not played some of the visual novels that were appropriating Nazi symbols into them, and I have not seen to the end of Titan either, so there may be some parts of this phenomenon I am ignorant of, but as a whole, I do not see this as a cause for concern so much as others.

What do you all think of this?

 

[Irick]

So, I was discussing the anime Attack on Titan with a friend, (I have not seen the end yet, so spoiler tags please) when he brought up the fact that though the liked he show, he was disappointed in its references to German totalitarianism, and by extension, fascism. I disagreed that it referenced this, though it took me a few days of thinking about it to really plumb the reasons why.

In a wider view, Nazi symbolism has returned to many parts of pop culture, I remember this thread here on the Escapist:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.856708-Its-Not-Like-I-Reich-You-Or-Anything?page=1
Where people had some fun bringing up odd references to Nazism in Dating Sims and Visual Novels, not to mention various types of "cultural whitewashing" in pop culture at large. This really got me thinking.

Let's start with Titan, 1) Simply because someone is German and in the military does not mean they are a Nazi. 2) If the intent of the authors was to somehow whitewash Nazism, why on earth would they name singly the most competent character after the tribe of Moses' brother. The tribe of Levi was traditionally the tribe of the priests of Israel and Judea. More than merely Hebrew, they represented everything the Nazis hated about Judaism.

While on the surface things like Black-and-Red uniforms and armbands may be disturbing, there may be more going on than meets the eye. The vigilance of people concerned with wiping out antisemitism is appreciated, and with dog whistle-style texts like Mel Gibson's Passion of the Christ still in the mainstream, perhaps we are right to be vigilant. But I think I would argue that this has less to do with antisemitism and more to do with a cultural re-appropriation of various symbols used by the Nazis. Take this clip from Slavoj Zizek:


To paraphrase if you didn't watch the clip: "Stripping these minimal elements of Nazi ideology and enjoying them in their pre-ideological state may in fact be the ultimate victory against Nazism." How long are we going to refer to the facial hair as the "Hitler Mustache" and not the "Charlie Chaplin." It is important to remember that these elements have little-to-no ideological meaning in-and-of themselves, but were merely at one time appropriated into the vast system of European Fascism. This has changed what they signify, but we may be seeing a re-adjustment of that signification, and this may -in turn- be completely separate from Nazi ideology.

Obviously, I have not played some of the visual novels that were appropriating Nazi symbols into them, and I have not seen to the end of Titan either, so there may be some parts of this phenomenon I am ignorant of, but as a whole, I do not see this as a cause for concern so much as others.

What do you all think of this?

These are very good points. Iconography is powerful because of what sort of status we give it. Stripping an Icon of its meaning can be a powerful thing, and if we as a society wish to purge ourselves of it embracing it outside of the context of an ideology is definitely a step in that direction.

I mean, the Swastika is proof positive in the opposite direction. The Nazis recontextualized a religious symbol of peace and luck to their own regime. There is nothing inherently "Nazi" about any of their iconography, but the question becomes whether or not we can as a society pull it off. I'm seriously in favor of a post-modern deconstruction of Nazism. I like the idea, I like the concept of appropriating their tropes into popular culture, defanging them, and sending them out to dry.

... and I would argue that it is happening naturally. The Nazi party will be forever lampooned, it will not be long until we decontextualise their icons into something resembling a cartoon super villain. Their ideology will become so distant to us that we will no longer feel the vast toll of humanity that it has come to represent to some.

It will just become symbols again. Symbols for whatever we decide it to be.

Because the world has decided that their ideology has no place in rational consideration. It is only deservant of mocking and cheep thrills.

But hey, red armbands are pretty cool right? :3

 

[The_Blue_Rider]

I think a lot of anime just use Nazi - ish imagery because well... Nazi's dressed really well. Yeah they did reprehensible things, but they had undeniable style

 

[Irick]

I think a lot of anime just use Nazi - ish imagery because well... Nazi's dressed really well. Yeah they did reprehensible things, but they had undeniable style

One of the interesting things about fascism is that it forced people to use the state iconography to express themselves. Like, being a German Nazi became a way to express yourself within the social...

You know what, I'm just going to leave this idea channel video here:


Hit up 2:17 for the start of the discussion on the influence of fascism in Kill-La-Kill. There are spoilers, but I feel that it gives a good little thought-nugget on the issue.

 

[Twintix]

Wait, someone said that AoT is referencing Nazis...because some names are German and they have an army? What? Or am I missing something? And weren't the Survey Corps' uniforms beige, grey and green? I gess that depends on what color the Military Police uniforms are. Or did you drop AoT at that point?

I'm sorry, I got a little bit confused. Please tell me if I understood the whole thing wrong.

 

[Albino Boo]

After being a little confused and then spending 30 seconds on google I found why people think they are nazis. Its very simple the uniform is a near copy of the SA uniform otherwise known as the brownshirts.

[image= GU104.gif]

 

[Nickolai77]

What I'd say about Rammstein and Nazism is that they're not consciously mimicking minimalist elements of Nazism and fascism - it's just that both heavy metal music and fascism both like to create larger than life, grandiose, and epic displays- be it through sound or imagery. The difference is that one is for artistic purposes and the other is political. Any resemblance between Rammstein performances and Nazism is therefore coincidental.

Otherwise, I would agree that re-appropriating things that have been tainted by Nazi ideology (like smart uniforms, swastikas, military parades, charismatic leaders etc) and putting them back into a pre-idealogical or a-political context is a good way to destroy the ideology.

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

Because no matter how you slice it, the German army under the Nazi's was super cool. They had all the cool toys, the jet planes, the tigers, the rockets, and not to mention uniforms stylish enough to kill for! Hell, most of the time I play them just for these reasons alone.

As for the armbands, it is actually quite commonplace in Japan to wear them. Like surgical masks, seeing them being worn in the country was troubling at first but you get used to it. Also, Asians are somewhat desensitized to the Holocaust as they do not learn about it very much (as I recall they only learn Japanese history in school). Before you read teh comic I bet you would have never had a problem with people referencing the shinsengumi police because you don't know about them.

As for "whitewashing" Nazism, that sounds absurd, at least in the way I understand it. How can you whitewash something that called for the extermination or subservience of all non-white races?

TL;DR
Everything about the Nazi's was cool except the whole Nazism thing.
The Japanese give zero fucks as to western sensibilities and it is glorious.

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

I'd say part of the world's victory over Nazism would be all the jokes at the Nazis' expense, like the comic you linked. They've been reduced from this hideous monster, or a force of righteousness as the Nazis saw themselves, to a joke. So when people mimic the accent or or crack a Nazi joke, it could be construed as a symbol of triumph over the fascist regimes. Not that I read so much into these things, I just think they're funny.

As for anime and other things mimicking WWII German military clothing, as it's already been said, the Germans were just really fucking stylish.

I think those are a couple of the points you wanted to talk about OP. I think. Your post really seems all over the place so it's hard to figure out what you mean.

 

[Neverhoodian]

As others have pointed out, despite their ideological beliefs, the Nazis had fabulous taste in fashion. Hitler realized the power and influence behind symbols and appearance, and this extended all the way down to your average soldier. I remember reading a Willie and Joe comic depicting a German POW standing smartly at attention with a clean and immaculate uniform. Willie mumbles to Joe, "Tell the prisoner to start acting sloppier in front of th' lootenant. We don't want to give him any ideas."

While I do agree that re-appropriating Nazi imagery and thus stripping it of its power is a good thing, I would add a caveat that one should still be mindful of when and where to use it. For example, as a white man I wouldn't dream of uttering the "n-word" around black people I don't know (or just about any person I don't know for that matter). Despite recent efforts by some people, it's still an extremely charged word with enormous historical and racial baggage attached to it. I feel it's important that, regardless of the meaning of a word or image today, one mustn't forget its origins. After all (at the risk of using a hackneyed saying), those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

 

[Lilani]

So, I was discussing the anime Attack on Titan with a friend, (I have not seen the end yet, so spoiler tags please) when he brought up the fact that though the liked he show, he was disappointed in its references to German totalitarianism, and by extension, fascism. I disagreed that it referenced this, though it took me a few days of thinking about it to really plumb the reasons why.

I haven't seen Attack on Titan recently but I think I can recall some instances that your friend might have been referring to. But, I don't remember the context. Did these references seem to show German totalitarianism in a positive light? If so, I can see why that would be troubling. Though I didn't really get that vibe from the show--the heroes of the show are quite divergent from the regular authorities and make their own rules as they go, definitely not a theme which supports totalitarianism.

If not, then I don't see what's so wrong with it. The Lion King quite famously made visual references to Nazi rallies during the song "Be Prepared." As others have said, iconography is a very powerful tool in storytelling, and especially visual forms of storytelling like film and animation. Any filmmaker or animator worth their salt is familiar with pop culture, historical, and generally universal symbols such as Nazi imagery, religious imagery, great depression imagery, 9/11 imagery, etc. and will take advantage of them when it can help drive home a point.

 

[Gorrath]

Along with what others have said here, it is really important for us to remember where Anime primarily comes from and what that culture's relationship with WWII Germany was. We tend to see these symbols and their meanings through the lens of our own culture, which is rooted in our history battling against the Nazi Germany. It should come as no great surprise that Japan would have a significantly different cultural take on Nazi symbols.

As far as AoT specifically, I can very much see the parallels. The brownshirt uniforms are similar in design, though the unit iconography seems to have more in common with Knightly orders than more modern military units. The show's take on the fascist regime does a good job (from what I've seen of the show) of showing how corrupt and self-serving their government is. This is demonstrated by the way they ordered the deaths of huge numbers of civilians by conscripting them and sending them on suicide missions or the way the inner walls live in comparative luxury to those in the outer walls, even before the attacks.

 

[Major_Tom]

I don't get the comparison with SA uniforms. Sure, when you show it like this:

Spoiler

they look similar, but this is a SHIRT - it's meant to be worn like this:

Spoiler

Which looks nothing like it. Actually, AoT uniform looks more like an Ike jacket:

Spoiler

 

[Orphan81]

The fact that Japan often uses German Names, and German fashion when it comes to depicting Western culture should not really be a surprise to anyone. The two nations have remained friends since WWII generally speaking. Both nations have come out from being depicted as the "Bad guys" and in Japan, there was far less controversy about depicting German aesthetics because of the history of the two nations as allies.

You can even see this in Anime like "Fairy Tail" where many of the Western characters have germanic names. It's just their point of reference, if Japan is going to use a Western reference their two biggest examples are either going to be German or American over any other Western nation.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

Well, as long as you?re not explicitly promoting the ideals of the Nazis, I think it?s fair use. I mean, in JoJo?s Bizarre Adventure, one of the allies of the protagonist is a Nazi called ?Rudol von Stroheim?, but only because they?re fighting a greater evil, and he was neither glorified (his catchphrase, ?German science is the best in the world!?, actually made him a somewhat comical figure), nor did he start out as a hero (he was originally a minor antagonist).

Same goes for Frank Miller?s use of the Swastika in many of his graphic novels. I couldn?t care less about some of the man?s questionable ideology (his Libertarianism and opposition to the Occupy movement, not any allegiance to the Nazis, as far as I know), but a fact needs to be repeated that the Swastika was originally a symbol of peace used by Hindus and Buddhists that the Nazi appropriated for their own cause. And, in Sin City, for example, the Asian assassin Miho (who has no stated backstory) throws a Swastika-shaped shuriken, as the Swastika?s presumably part of her culture and she?s adopted the shape to use as a throwing weapon. And all the other Nazis in his comic books are two-bit villains (including the amusingly paradoxical topless transsexual with Swastika pasties in The Dark Knight Returns) - a real "Big-Lipped Alligator moment", if you ask me).

And, in regards to cultural relativism, most Japanese don?t have the same kind of perception that we in the West did since the two World Wars (especially considering they were allied in World War II). They seem to pretty much just think that the Nazi uniform style looks cool. Basically, you should think about Nazis in popular culture the same way you view the word ?negro? being used in 20th century literature. Do you think F. Scott Fitzgerald was racist just because he used ?negro? a couple of times in The Great Gatsby? No, that?s just what they were still calling black people during the 1920s. As always, context is of utmost importance.

 

[Ryan Hughes]

The fact that Japan often uses German Names, and German fashion when it comes to depicting Western culture should not really be a surprise to anyone. The two nations have remained friends since WWII generally speaking. Both nations have come out from being depicted as the "Bad guys" and in Japan, there was far less controversy about depicting German aesthetics because of the history of the two nations as allies.

You can even see this in Anime like "Fairy Tail" where many of the Western characters have germanic names. It's just their point of reference, if Japan is going to use a Western reference their two biggest examples are either going to be German or American over any other Western nation.

Right. The relationship between Japan and Germany extends beyond WWII, though. After the Meiji revolution, Japan allowed foreign diplomats into the country for the first time. They became friendly with the Danes and Germans, mostly because of the fact that they were legitimate European powers who were -at the time- abandoning or slowing their colonial activities. Japan's greatest fear was colonization, and normalized relations with European powers was their best defense, at least until they could build up a modern navy.

I have no idea what you're talking about and must conclude this is relegated specifically to the anime subculture, in which case I am not surprised.

Well, no. I did mention Goth Metal, and I wouldn't be surprised if many other sub-cultures were doing the same with nazi iconography. This is a wider issue from many independent sub-cultures.

What I'd say about Rammstein and Nazism is that they're not consciously mimicking minimalist elements of Nazism and fascism - it's just that both heavy metal music and fascism both like to create larger than life, grandiose, and epic displays- be it through sound or imagery. The difference is that one is for artistic purposes and the other is political. Any resemblance between Rammstein performances and Nazism is therefore coincidental.

I honestly cannot see that being a coincidence. Judging from their age, they appear to have been born in the 70s in Germany. Being very strict with its education on Nazism, they have to understand these elements on some level much deeper than even you or I. I think the taking of the elements is strictly intentional on their part.

These are very good points. Iconography is powerful because of what sort of status we give it. Stripping an Icon of its meaning can be a powerful thing, and if we as a society wish to purge ourselves of it embracing it outside of the context of an ideology is definitely a step in that direction.

As others have pointed out, despite their ideological beliefs, the Nazis had fabulous taste in fashion. Hitler realized the power and influence behind symbols and appearance, and this extended all the way down to your average soldier. I remember reading a Willie and Joe comic depicting a German POW standing smartly at attention with a clean and immaculate uniform. Willie mumbles to Joe, "Tell the prisoner to start acting sloppier in front of th' lootenant. We don't want to give him any ideas."

While I do agree that re-appropriating Nazi imagery and thus stripping it of its power is a good thing, I would add a caveat that one should still be mindful of when and where to use it. For example, as a white man I wouldn't dream of uttering the "n-word" around black people I don't know (or just about any person I don't know for that matter). Despite recent efforts by some people, it's still an extremely charged word with enormous historical and racial baggage attached to it. I feel it's important that, regardless of the meaning of a word or image today, one mustn't forget its origins. After all (at the risk of using a hackneyed saying), those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

Of course we should be sensitive to the desires of of oppressed minorities. However, perhaps being overly sensitive is the worst path of all, as it allows the trauma to fester under fear of icons and elements not truly related to the oppressor.

One point is that the largest work of antisemitism to reach mainstream success over the last decade or so is Gibson's Passion of the Christ which used zero Nazi iconography, and had no reference at all to European Fascism. That is that the remnants of Nazism have been forced to abandon these images, elements and icons in their entirety, except random holdouts like many skinhead movements. But these are fading quickly, as you can see, at least in America. Meanwhile in France, the nearly-racist conservative party receives nearly 20% of the vote, again using nothing in the way of overtly Fascist elements, but instead appealing to fears over immigration and Islam.