One of my friends told me something about being a writer. He said that the works of a writer tell more about a writer than the stories they are telling. You should probably look at trying to get her more help.
Need Advice on an Extremely Delicate Situation
- Thread starter Master_of_Oldskool
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Are... are you sincerely asking for personal, family advice for what appears to be an emotional situation from random strangers on the internet. I'd be surprised no-one hasn't already had fun trolling this, but it seems far too easy.
While I'm here though, I might as well be an enourmous hypocrit and tell you to engage in conversation. Facilitate communication. Talk to her. I know I wouldn't be nearly as fucked up as I am if someone had bothered to ask "what's wrong?". It could be nothing, and it most probably will be (humans aren't exactly known for keeping things in perspective), but the worst talking will do is embarass those involved.
While I'm here though, I might as well be an enourmous hypocrit and tell you to engage in conversation. Facilitate communication. Talk to her. I know I wouldn't be nearly as fucked up as I am if someone had bothered to ask "what's wrong?". It could be nothing, and it most probably will be (humans aren't exactly known for keeping things in perspective), but the worst talking will do is embarass those involved.
I'm nowhere NEAR qualified to give a good solution, but my knee-jerk reaction is that it'd be a good idea for your sister to tell, someone she knows won't tell anyone, what it was that inspired her to write the story your presented- and try to explain how she feels.
Other than that, I don't dare say ANYTHING else. I want to smack your "friend" over the head for doing what he did.
Other than that, I don't dare say ANYTHING else. I want to smack your "friend" over the head for doing what he did.
You should add a TL
R. I read it all, but not sure how many people will. That sounds tough. You can only support your sister and stick up for your friend IMO. Can't abandon your sister, but you can't really take her side since it does sound wrong.
R. I read it all, but not sure how many people will. That sounds tough. You can only support your sister and stick up for your friend IMO. Can't abandon your sister, but you can't really take her side since it does sound wrong.
To be honest, if he really just did minor sexual passes, then the blame really shouldn't be entirely on him. Add that to the potential sexual confusion from the boy and probable bias from your sister, and there's not really anyone to blame, at least not concretely.
Yeah, yeah, I know it seems stupid to ask for advice on the internet, but like I said, my parents and friends are just kind of telling me to drop it and leave it alone, and I'm far too concerned at this point to do that. Besides which fact, the Escapist has more intellectual members than the average site.Extraintrovert said:
OK. First of all I want to say that you are a very good person and I wish more people were like you today-caring. You rock.
On topic, I think this is gonna be long so I apologize to everyone in advance.
I've been in a similar nasty situation like your sister when I was teenage (which I won't describe), but it's more than enough to understand her cause I acted the complete same way, without the writing of course since I am no writer. Yes, she is depressed. I'll try to explain something: as a girl, you don't necessarily need to get raped to feel raped. Why? Sole the fact that your body is "abused", (someone starts touching you without your permission, and you have to repeat times and times to stop, and he stops, but then it happens again, and again) makes you feel like your free will is taken away. On top of that, as a girl, you get to realize on the painful way the most painful lesson in life: that at no matter what age, men will (almost) always be more powerful (physically) than you. Trust me, I know what I am saying, I was very young too. The feeling of not having control over the moment when someone decides to touch you and you just don't want to be touched! And it doesn't matter if they were "in love" or something, abuse is abuse, when you don't feel like it - you just don't, and when someone forces himself into your body, you scream on the inside. Helpless. That's the feeling a girl gets in time when is faced with that kind of experience. Plus she was way to young to handle touching like someone trying to put hand under her shirt. Woman at every age can find that extremely disturbing if she is not prepared and willing to such an act! It's a direct insult on ones intimacy, it leaves scars more deep than one can understand. And of course she can't be hugged now, even from your parents. The wound is too deep, and even when hug is coming from a loving parent, traumatized person feels abused again: someone is reaching for her again without warning, she couldn't see it coming, and someone is over her body again without permission. And she feels enraged. I use to act the same way, completely identical, and that is cause once you are hurt you see threat in everything. It takes time to recover from that, and therapist can do things for her, but she needs to come at peace with some things for herself. Be there as a support, if you think that you can talk to her without blaming her for the behavior you'll do her good. But stay away physically, you don't need to hug her to show her that you care, cause hugging for her now has a bad meaning, and trust me it doesn't mean that you care. And maybe for a lot of time to come she won't be ok with hugging, and that is fine! She'll do it when she is ready, and no one, NO ONE should tell her and make her do otherwise! She'll get better when as she grows up: time will do it's part, caring people their part, and hopefully a boy(friend) if she allow herself the luxury of falling in love, that will treat her with care and love.
And the thing with withdrawing... normal. Being introvert after that is also normal part of it (as is being enraged extrovert). Good thing is she writes, and is channeling her emotions through there. Maybe she leaves you hints deliberately with the open writings, maybe not. Keep in mind that she is very young and that she even doesn't really understand herself, and this emotional burden is way too heavy for her to carry at the age of 14.
I was "emo" too back in those days, and then I started to listen to angry metal bands cause the anger consumed me. And when I was tired of rage, I listened to some pathetic tunes and cried for days, and than again the anger and so on and so on.
You need not to blame anyone. Yeah, the guy did it. Maybe someone should explain what damage he caused to her, I don't think he is aware what he did cause it was not in his intentions to hurt her. So he needs to learn the lesson from this too.
Sorry for the long reply, it just hurts me a lot to see things like this.
Good luck to you, and to her, I wish her well recovery.
On topic, I think this is gonna be long so I apologize to everyone in advance.
I've been in a similar nasty situation like your sister when I was teenage (which I won't describe), but it's more than enough to understand her cause I acted the complete same way, without the writing of course since I am no writer. Yes, she is depressed. I'll try to explain something: as a girl, you don't necessarily need to get raped to feel raped. Why? Sole the fact that your body is "abused", (someone starts touching you without your permission, and you have to repeat times and times to stop, and he stops, but then it happens again, and again) makes you feel like your free will is taken away. On top of that, as a girl, you get to realize on the painful way the most painful lesson in life: that at no matter what age, men will (almost) always be more powerful (physically) than you. Trust me, I know what I am saying, I was very young too. The feeling of not having control over the moment when someone decides to touch you and you just don't want to be touched! And it doesn't matter if they were "in love" or something, abuse is abuse, when you don't feel like it - you just don't, and when someone forces himself into your body, you scream on the inside. Helpless. That's the feeling a girl gets in time when is faced with that kind of experience. Plus she was way to young to handle touching like someone trying to put hand under her shirt. Woman at every age can find that extremely disturbing if she is not prepared and willing to such an act! It's a direct insult on ones intimacy, it leaves scars more deep than one can understand. And of course she can't be hugged now, even from your parents. The wound is too deep, and even when hug is coming from a loving parent, traumatized person feels abused again: someone is reaching for her again without warning, she couldn't see it coming, and someone is over her body again without permission. And she feels enraged. I use to act the same way, completely identical, and that is cause once you are hurt you see threat in everything. It takes time to recover from that, and therapist can do things for her, but she needs to come at peace with some things for herself. Be there as a support, if you think that you can talk to her without blaming her for the behavior you'll do her good. But stay away physically, you don't need to hug her to show her that you care, cause hugging for her now has a bad meaning, and trust me it doesn't mean that you care. And maybe for a lot of time to come she won't be ok with hugging, and that is fine! She'll do it when she is ready, and no one, NO ONE should tell her and make her do otherwise! She'll get better when as she grows up: time will do it's part, caring people their part, and hopefully a boy(friend) if she allow herself the luxury of falling in love, that will treat her with care and love.
And the thing with withdrawing... normal. Being introvert after that is also normal part of it (as is being enraged extrovert). Good thing is she writes, and is channeling her emotions through there. Maybe she leaves you hints deliberately with the open writings, maybe not. Keep in mind that she is very young and that she even doesn't really understand herself, and this emotional burden is way too heavy for her to carry at the age of 14.
I was "emo" too back in those days, and then I started to listen to angry metal bands cause the anger consumed me. And when I was tired of rage, I listened to some pathetic tunes and cried for days, and than again the anger and so on and so on.
You need not to blame anyone. Yeah, the guy did it. Maybe someone should explain what damage he caused to her, I don't think he is aware what he did cause it was not in his intentions to hurt her. So he needs to learn the lesson from this too.
Sorry for the long reply, it just hurts me a lot to see things like this.
Good luck to you, and to her, I wish her well recovery.
It sucks that this had to happen. I wouldn't call it molestation but it still shouldn't have happened. This must have had a bigger impact on your sister than you know/she's letting on. The only thing I could think to do is get her back seeing the therapist. Even if she doesn't need them it still seems like a good thing for her to talk to someone neutral.
Good luck with whatever happens. I hope everything works out.
Good luck with whatever happens. I hope everything works out.
The best thing that you can do, if you want to find out what really happened as there seems to be more to it than she told you, is to just sit down opposite her when she's doing something, wait for her to acknowledge you and then say, "What happened". Pour all of your compassion and concern into those two words and she will, hopefully, open up to you.Master_of_Oldskool said:
With regards the hugging, wait for her to come to you. That way, the contact is on her terms.
There's not much advice that I can give you, I've helped friends through difficult personal situations, but I've always been face to face with them. I can't know what your sister is thinking and feeling without speaking to her, seeing her facial expressions and body language. I wish I could be more help.
Oh, man. That is a difficult situation.
If my younger sister ever mentioned that anyone had "molested" her, even if it was my best friend, I would go to them immediately and beat the shit out of them. Then again, I'm an over-protective moron, and you seem like the type of guy who could find a, um, intellectual solution to the problem at hand.
I'd suggest confronting the guy, and having a talk to him about it.
But whatever happens, I hope everything works out.
If my younger sister ever mentioned that anyone had "molested" her, even if it was my best friend, I would go to them immediately and beat the shit out of them. Then again, I'm an over-protective moron, and you seem like the type of guy who could find a, um, intellectual solution to the problem at hand.
I'd suggest confronting the guy, and having a talk to him about it.
But whatever happens, I hope everything works out.
In order:
>I don't know if you should feel bad, but you should be more understanding. I mean, if I got what you said correctly, this has been going on for half her life.
>Normal, no. Curiosity of pubescent children, a little tough to tell. Had it only been going until the other kid was 15 or something, I would buy that, but it went on for sometime.
>A little, she's obviously a little disturbed by this, and it's surprisingly easy to mess with people's minds if you get them to trust you enough.
>No and yes.
>I say go for it, but very tread lightly.
>I don't know if you should feel bad, but you should be more understanding. I mean, if I got what you said correctly, this has been going on for half her life.
>Normal, no. Curiosity of pubescent children, a little tough to tell. Had it only been going until the other kid was 15 or something, I would buy that, but it went on for sometime.
>A little, she's obviously a little disturbed by this, and it's surprisingly easy to mess with people's minds if you get them to trust you enough.
>No and yes.
>I say go for it, but very tread lightly.
Maybe its just sexism from my side, but it seems to me, that young girls tend to go to great lengths to get the kind of attention they want, ignoring the consequences others suffer.
Like this young girl at my local LARP, who began to spread rumors of this older player, molesting her.
All of us know that its utter bullshit and even the police ended up agreeing with the majority.. Still the parents of the younger players protested and got him expelled from the LARP.
... All because some little twat wanted attention.
As for her? She continued the path of "LOOK AT ME", by sleeping with everyone who dident know her age... And was desperate enough.
My point.. Something along the lines of: Rumors spread fast. A rumor like that on a young man could destroy his future, especially in a small community.
Like this young girl at my local LARP, who began to spread rumors of this older player, molesting her.
All of us know that its utter bullshit and even the police ended up agreeing with the majority.. Still the parents of the younger players protested and got him expelled from the LARP.
... All because some little twat wanted attention.
As for her? She continued the path of "LOOK AT ME", by sleeping with everyone who dident know her age... And was desperate enough.
My point.. Something along the lines of: Rumors spread fast. A rumor like that on a young man could destroy his future, especially in a small community.
I think at this point the best thing you can do is talk to her, and perhaps suggest that she goes back to therapy? When someone goes through a traumatic experience, especially at such a young age its not easy to talk about it and describe what really happened. You try to repress the memories so you never have to think about it ever again. I don't know what happened, only your sister does and I think its better to be sure that shes getting the help she needs than to let her develop further depression and not being able to deal with it.
This is a delicate situation. I'm not sure if a forum on the internet is the best place to get advice as I don't know how lolcats could help.
In any case, I don't know you, I don't know your sister, I don't know your former friend. I'm only going by what you've told us and even then I'm likely bringing in my own assumptions and prejudices.
What matters here is not whether what happened was really molestation or not. It does not matter if your friend had actually penetrated your sister or had simply touched her hand. What matters is how she feels about it and she obviously feels terrible. This is what needs to be addressed. This is what the therapist should have done and probably tried to do, but it obviously didn't take.
I don't know what you should do. Probably the most responsible thing is to suggest she go back to therapy. Professional help may be required here.
She needs to learn that what happened wasn't her fault and that it doesn't make her less of a person. Maybe I'm off base, but I'm seeing lots of self blame and guilt in your story.
I don't know what activities you could encourage her to take that would build self-esteem and make her feel empowered... is that the word I want?... but something that makes her feel like she has some control over something could be helpful. She feels helpless, worthless, and like a piece of meat. This needs to be undone. This will not be easy and will take time.
In any case, I don't know you, I don't know your sister, I don't know your former friend. I'm only going by what you've told us and even then I'm likely bringing in my own assumptions and prejudices.
What matters here is not whether what happened was really molestation or not. It does not matter if your friend had actually penetrated your sister or had simply touched her hand. What matters is how she feels about it and she obviously feels terrible. This is what needs to be addressed. This is what the therapist should have done and probably tried to do, but it obviously didn't take.
I don't know what you should do. Probably the most responsible thing is to suggest she go back to therapy. Professional help may be required here.
She needs to learn that what happened wasn't her fault and that it doesn't make her less of a person. Maybe I'm off base, but I'm seeing lots of self blame and guilt in your story.
I don't know what activities you could encourage her to take that would build self-esteem and make her feel empowered... is that the word I want?... but something that makes her feel like she has some control over something could be helpful. She feels helpless, worthless, and like a piece of meat. This needs to be undone. This will not be easy and will take time.
It seems like she feels she has been (ab)used, tricked and lied to; and, is (very) unhappy with this. The (ab)use of her was sexual in context, so my response is going to be Freudian in nature.
Leaving her work around to be read does sound like her way to communicate, albeit a round-a-bout one. Her two options in the choose-your-own-story do appear to be her explaining how she feels; the first one that she feels she was, if not physically then psychologically, raped and, for the second that nobody understands her.
Would I be right in assuming the gay males she writes about are nice guys while any straight ones are arseholes/badguys? If so, then as a (assumptions) straight male with no counselling expertise (/assumptions) you have no real chance in getting through to her; she sees every straight guy as out to use her because she's reduced all their motives to sex.
My only real suggestion would be to get her back into counselling but with a female counsellor this time, not the guy you sent her to before.
From what you've told us it seems like she'll grow up to be an angry lesbian unless she gets counselling; this is only a problem because a) you said your Dad's intollerant and, more importantly, b) that she will not be a lesbian because she loves women but because she hates men, that's the wrong way to go about it and c) that anger isn't the emotion any impartial person would choose as their default.
Truly, the only thing that we can objectionably trust is that her last counsellor decided she was ok; getting her to see another, and making it a woman, will either reaffirm that or confirm your fears that she is unhappy. Ask or suggest to her that she see one, either yourself or your mum ask I mean, and if she'd like to bring her books. At least try and imply that it is her decision and do not be condescending, in other words don't talk to her like a child. The worst outcome would be you lose some money; the best outcome would be you help your sister.
Leaving her work around to be read does sound like her way to communicate, albeit a round-a-bout one. Her two options in the choose-your-own-story do appear to be her explaining how she feels; the first one that she feels she was, if not physically then psychologically, raped and, for the second that nobody understands her.
Would I be right in assuming the gay males she writes about are nice guys while any straight ones are arseholes/badguys? If so, then as a (assumptions) straight male with no counselling expertise (/assumptions) you have no real chance in getting through to her; she sees every straight guy as out to use her because she's reduced all their motives to sex.
My only real suggestion would be to get her back into counselling but with a female counsellor this time, not the guy you sent her to before.
From what you've told us it seems like she'll grow up to be an angry lesbian unless she gets counselling; this is only a problem because a) you said your Dad's intollerant and, more importantly, b) that she will not be a lesbian because she loves women but because she hates men, that's the wrong way to go about it and c) that anger isn't the emotion any impartial person would choose as their default.
Truly, the only thing that we can objectionably trust is that her last counsellor decided she was ok; getting her to see another, and making it a woman, will either reaffirm that or confirm your fears that she is unhappy. Ask or suggest to her that she see one, either yourself or your mum ask I mean, and if she'd like to bring her books. At least try and imply that it is her decision and do not be condescending, in other words don't talk to her like a child. The worst outcome would be you lose some money; the best outcome would be you help your sister.
Obviously this could all be bollocks seeing as it's based on only the bad aspects that you, with unintentional bias, have let us know about. Also, you have no idea about who I am.
Saying these in no way denegrates what you've said; I (have to) trust that what you've said is true, that you want to help your sister and also that you are genuinely worried about her; specifically about these things you have picked up on. You want confirmation that they are worrisome, they could very well be. The only solution, seeing as you are worried about her still, would be to get her to see a counsellor, preferably a woman. Has saying it three times got through how I consider that to be the only logical solution?
Saying these in no way denegrates what you've said; I (have to) trust that what you've said is true, that you want to help your sister and also that you are genuinely worried about her; specifically about these things you have picked up on. You want confirmation that they are worrisome, they could very well be. The only solution, seeing as you are worried about her still, would be to get her to see a counsellor, preferably a woman. Has saying it three times got through how I consider that to be the only logical solution?
First, what Aylaine [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/18.223966.7570522] said.
She will need time to get over what happened to her, and I understand why the music she listens to disturbs you. You don't want her to be a freak , and her trauma has probably resulted in her having a lowered self esteem, so its possible that she fears that she is (as admitted by her fictional version of the story in which she ends up in an asylum). She will almost certainly not admit this to anyone, and that probably ties into her "bad temper".
She is defensive about it because she doesn't want anyone to know that something haunts her, but of course, this attitude only alienates her in a different way. But at least this way, she is consulted by the fact that they are wrong. As kids, it is paramount that we are right about some things, and she doesn't want people to know that she is so unsure about the "molestation".
Don't be afraid of the way she fixates on the subject, but take it as a sign that she will need support. Don't rush up to her saying, "You need help!" because this will just make her feel more like a freak. The music she listens to helps her empathize, and if one can empathize with something, then one doesn't feel quite so lonely (since other people are like her.)
What she needs is a friend to trust, and ultimately, love(Not necessarily romantically).
I think if she can feel real love for once, it would be absolutely cathartic for her.
That's a tall order though, as real love is incredibly rare.
Above all else, don't let her feel like a freak. Freaks are made by alienation, not designated inherently from birth.
She will need time to get over what happened to her, and I understand why the music she listens to disturbs you. You don't want her to be a freak , and her trauma has probably resulted in her having a lowered self esteem, so its possible that she fears that she is (as admitted by her fictional version of the story in which she ends up in an asylum). She will almost certainly not admit this to anyone, and that probably ties into her "bad temper".
She is defensive about it because she doesn't want anyone to know that something haunts her, but of course, this attitude only alienates her in a different way. But at least this way, she is consulted by the fact that they are wrong. As kids, it is paramount that we are right about some things, and she doesn't want people to know that she is so unsure about the "molestation".
Don't be afraid of the way she fixates on the subject, but take it as a sign that she will need support. Don't rush up to her saying, "You need help!" because this will just make her feel more like a freak. The music she listens to helps her empathize, and if one can empathize with something, then one doesn't feel quite so lonely (since other people are like her.)
What she needs is a friend to trust, and ultimately, love(Not necessarily romantically).
I think if she can feel real love for once, it would be absolutely cathartic for her.
That's a tall order though, as real love is incredibly rare.
Above all else, don't let her feel like a freak. Freaks are made by alienation, not designated inherently from birth.