Need some advice, ASAP.

[Brandon237]

Ooh, shame dude, sorry

Legally, they broke in. If they go missing, no-one is gonna care anyhow, these are thieves and it is unlikely an investigation will be launched. That is terrible legal advice born of living in a high crime country. Sorry.

But as for practical advice, keep a weapon near, if only to make yourself feel safer ( I highly doubt you will need it, but you are sure as hell gonna want it), but it would be stupid for them to try the same place twice. And make it look like you are up and active the whole night.
Do the police in your area offer to stand by your road for the night in cases like this?

 

[smartengine]

If you have to take something, take a baseball bat rather than a knife. You'd be supprised how effective it is...

And I don't think you can be charged for beating someone who broke into your house in the midde of the night. Just be sure to call the police

 

[thetruefallen]

Go to the RSPCA. give them $70. Get a big dog with a bad temper. problem solved.

 

[Jake Martinez]

So much terrible advice in this thread.

This guy doesn't need a weapon, he needs a bloody new door.

Also, just leave the damn lights on. No one is going to try and break into a house with all the lights on just to steal something (especially after they already broke in once and evidently didn't see anything they wanted to steal before they ran away).

Just use common sense really.

 

[goldendriger]

If you can i highly advise a crowbar. Because if you bring a bat, you've brought that bat with a purpose, if its a crowbar you can say they brought it with them and you took it off them, or they dropped it in the struggle

You are a genius. I will have to remember that advice - you can beat the criminals and say its there weapon as well. (Im not being sarcastic, i really liked your comment.)

Honestly i only know this because my uncle's house was getting robbed he came downstairs with a bat and ko'd them, the cops got there and he got in trouble because he brought the bat down specifically to cause harm to them. So i guess you can take "Their" bat and use it against them, cause thats self defence ;D

 

[Craorach]

Stay up, play music, do NOT have a weapon of any sort.

Unless of course you are very well trained in its use, chances are it will be taken from you and used against you.. in the end either you or the burglar will end up injured far worse than you intended.

 

[Spoonius]

Thanks for all the replies people, just got back from my dad's a few minutes ago, but am intending to return for the rest of the week and help him set up some more advanced security.

.

Too much to quote and answer, so in summary:

- I don't own a deadly yet lovable local animal as a pet. I can't catapult box jellyfish at them, I can't throw baskets full of snakes at them, I can't send a Kangaroo with boxing gloves at them, and I don't have any terrifying spiders with which to harvest their dying screams.

- They initially broke in during the day, while my dad was at work. Not during the night.

- My dad isn't rich at all... the opposite, in fact. However, his house looks rich (when we bought it cheap from the bank though, the house was vandalised to shit... no electricity, no hot water, trashed rooms, broken roof/floors/doors, graffiti and dead insects everywhere, etc), and is located in a very poor (and criminal-populated) neighbourhood. It stands out.

- We have good reason to believe that the intruders aren't just petty burglars, and that they'll return. The police also indicated that they were probably fairly-strong adult males, and that they were wearing gloves when they broke in.

- Australian burglars aren't as civil as the burglars a few of you might be familiar with... round here, plenty of robbers won't think twice about bashing even an elderly couple inside their own home. Fellow Australians know who/what I'm talking about.

- I'm not American, and thus don't own a baseball bat or gun... but I found a nice, thick, metre-long, hefty steel bar instead, as well as a cricket bat... for close encounters of the burglar kind. I've left them with my dad for now. They shouldn't look too out-of-place sitting in a garage/house.

- A lot of people telling me that it's inadvisable to fight an intruder... well I wouldn't normally suggest it, but I'm fairly-well trained in Krav Maga, and my dad was in the special forces (and is still in good physical shape). Trust me, I'd only fight them off as a last resort anyway, but I think we could subdue or detain them if we needed to.

.

Just wanted to note... to my knowledge, in Australia you can only use equal and not superior force to fend off an intruder right? I know the laws here are ridiculous, and that they almost favour the attacker (who's prepared), but I'm not quite sure where the boundaries lie. As far as I know, even using pepper spray against an unarmed burglar could land you in trouble, unless you're at a physical disadvantage.

I'd be happy if someone could clarify.

 

[StBishop]

Pretty sure pepper spray is illegal here bud. (Perth resident too).

Which suburb is your dad in if you don't mind my asking?

I would recommend avoiding knives at all costs tbh, the legal system is big on deterring knives in self defence case here and likes to set precedents of charging excessive force when knives are involved (I have this on pretty good authority from currently serving detective).

You're correct on equal force.

Unconsciousness is considered equal force if you have reason to believe that they won't stop until you're unconscious, or worse.
You'd have an incredible legal battle on your hands proving they wanted you dead unless they had a gun or knife.

I don't know a hell of a lot about Kav Magra but sleeper holds are an incredibly safe bet legally if you can get one. Hitting someone with a heavy blunt object in the torso is also pretty safe, just make sure you call out to them that you're armed (or at least tell the cops that you did) when you hear them enter.

If it's Bikeys, run. Not worth angering them, and at the moment they're not too worried about the cops over here.

EDIT: Yep pepper spray is illegal in WA and illegal to import duh.

ReEDIT: Apparently you can have a spraying device that emits oleoresin capsicum, but you need a licence, it's a "controlled weapon" not banned. So no, pepper spray isn't illegal as long as it's a certain type.

 

[Joccaren]

Hey guys...

My dad's house was broken into earlier today (just heard about it a second ago), and I'm going down to spend the night with him in the event that the burglars return (they didn't manage to take anything the first time, because the alarm went off, but they broke the door down, and he's in a bad neighbourhood).

So anyway, only a little while until I leave... would it be advisable to take a weapon with me? Probably a knife (I'm Australian)? If I end up using said weapon in self-defence, will it come back to bite me in the ass legally?

.

I know this is irregular, but I also know that you guys can give some pretty solid legal advice.

Here in Aus, if you defend yourself with a weapon of equal or lesser strength than that of the attacker, you are pretty much fine no matter what happens (however I wouldn't advise the knife, that can get sticky). If he is unarmed and you use a knife, you will be charged. If he has a knife and you have a knife, your probably fine. Tough part is making the call in the instant you see the intruder as to whether the knife is stronger than what they are using (say they use a cricket bat or a shovel [the cricket bat I would count as weaker, the shovel I would count as stronger, arguably]) then deciding whether you should drop the knife for something else, or keep the knife.

I'd say bring it for comfort if you must, but I'd prefer to use something that will knock the intruder out, and not kill him. That way, you should be safe from the law almost completely.

 

[Hamish Durie]

whay neighbourhood also do take a weapon more for scaring them off if anything else so you scare them with a big knife while your dad calls the cops or call some friends over and have them bring weapons to scare the crap out of said attackers

 

[Spoonius]

You're correct on equal force.

Unconsciousness is considered equal force if you have reason to believe that they won't stop until you're unconscious, or worse.
You'd have an incredible legal battle on your hands proving they wanted you dead unless they had a gun or knife.

I don't know a hell of a lot about Kav Magra but sleeper holds are an incredibly safe bet legally if you can get one. Hitting someone with a heavy blunt object in the torso is also pretty safe, just make sure you call out to them that you're armed (or at least tell the cops that you did) when you hear them enter.

Here in Aus, if you defend yourself with a weapon of equal or lesser strength than that of the attacker, you are pretty much fine no matter what happens (however I wouldn't advise the knife, that can get sticky). If he is unarmed and you use a knife, you will be charged. If he has a knife and you have a knife, your probably fine. Tough part is making the call in the instant you see the intruder as to whether the knife is stronger than what they are using (say they use a cricket bat or a shovel [the cricket bat I would count as weaker, the shovel I would count as stronger, arguably]) then deciding whether you should drop the knife for something else, or keep the knife.

I'd say bring it for comfort if you must, but I'd prefer to use something that will knock the intruder out, and not kill him. That way, you should be safe from the law almost completely.

So let me get this straight... you can only really fight for your life if you know they have something like a knife (one of the most insidious and easily-concealable weapons available), yet you can only ever reply with pathetic force otherwise, even if they have a potentially deadly weapon (such as a crowbar or other blunt object)? Even untrained bare hands can be deadly, if used with intent... and yet, they have to be openly trying to harm you in some way before you can even reciprocate with the same level of force?

Those laws are absurd. Whoever made them must think that everyone carries multiple weapons of varying lethality at all times, and are skilled enough with them to easily defeat a similarly-armed criminal.

EDIT: Yep pepper spray is illegal in WA and illegal to import duh.

ReEDIT: Apparently you can have a spraying device that emits oleoresin capsicum, but you need a licence, it's a "controlled weapon" not banned. So no, pepper spray isn't illegal as long as it's a certain type.

Same level of functionality though, right?

And how viable is pepper spray as a defensive weapon from a legal perspective? Thanks for the links btw.

 

[StBishop]

Spoiler

You're correct on equal force.

Unconsciousness is considered equal force if you have reason to believe that they won't stop until you're unconscious, or worse.
You'd have an incredible legal battle on your hands proving they wanted you dead unless they had a gun or knife.

I don't know a hell of a lot about Kav Magra but sleeper holds are an incredibly safe bet legally if you can get one. Hitting someone with a heavy blunt object in the torso is also pretty safe, just make sure you call out to them that you're armed (or at least tell the cops that you did) when you hear them enter.

Spoiler

Here in Aus, if you defend yourself with a weapon of equal or lesser strength than that of the attacker, you are pretty much fine no matter what happens (however I wouldn't advise the knife, that can get sticky). If he is unarmed and you use a knife, you will be charged. If he has a knife and you have a knife, your probably fine. Tough part is making the call in the instant you see the intruder as to whether the knife is stronger than what they are using (say they use a cricket bat or a shovel [the cricket bat I would count as weaker, the shovel I would count as stronger, arguably]) then deciding whether you should drop the knife for something else, or keep the knife.

I'd say bring it for comfort if you must, but I'd prefer to use something that will knock the intruder out, and not kill him. That way, you should be safe from the law almost completely.

So let me get this straight... you can only really fight for your life if you know they have something like a knife (one of the most insidious and easily-concealable weapons available), yet you can only ever reply with pathetic force otherwise, even if they have a potentially deadly weapon (such as a crowbar or other blunt object)? Even untrained bare hands can be deadly, if used with intent... and yet, they have to be openly trying to harm you in some way before you can even reciprocate with the same level of force?

Those laws are absurd. Whoever made them must think that everyone carries multiple weapons of varying lethality at all times, and are skilled enough with them to easily defeat a similarly-armed criminal.

Spoiler

EDIT: Yep pepper spray is illegal in WA and illegal to import duh.

ReEDIT: Apparently you can have a spraying device that emits oleoresin capsicum, but you need a licence, it's a "controlled weapon" not banned. So no, pepper spray isn't illegal as long as it's a certain type.

Same level of functionality though, right?

And how viable is pepper spray as a defensive weapon from a legal perspective? Thanks for the links btw.

You can fight for your life at any stage really, but if you break into my house and threaten to hit me I can't stab you with a knife.
I could probably hit you with something like a chair if you advanced on me but that's about it.

If, for example, an unarmed 15 year old weighing about 50 kilos (like 110 pounds) came at me, I would only really be able to hit him with my fists. Not a chair.

If someone broke into my brother in law's place, (they'd probably run when they saw him) but he would probably only get away with pushing them away from him as he's about 150 kilos (like 240 pounds) and like 2 metres tall (like 6'4") and teaches Mixed Martial Arts.

Defending your children or spouse opens up temporary insanity, but that's another case, we're only discussing self defence.

So yeah, if they don't have a weapon and don't look like they might you can't pull one out.

Edit: I read through that and I think I might have not been clear, if someone reaches into a pocket or behind them you can assume they have a gun, lethal force could be argued, but you need to have reasonable belief that they want to kill you. Or rather "a reasonable person" would need to have belief in the same situation that the attacker intended to use lethal force.

Bonus round edit: I dunno about the effectiveness of different sprays, I've only ever been sprayed in the eyes with standard aerosols (Lynx (Axe) deodorant and fly spray) and have never used them on anyone or seen them used on anyone.

Also, if you're physically smaller than someone, or know them to be trained in martial arts you can use weapons, as it's considered reasonable.

For example: high school bully is known to/brags about doing martial arts and attacks a kid out side of school on his way home from cricket practice, cricket kid can hit the bully with a cricket bat as hard as he can to incapacitate the bully (so no head shots, or hitting when down) and get away with it.

Also; A Rubgy forward breaks into grandma's house, she could probably get away with shooting him. Or at least stabbing him, due to the size and strength difference.

 

[Spoonius]

Thanks for the info.

So yeah, if they don't have a weapon and don't look like they might you can't pull one out.

Not even as a deterrent?

 

[Joccaren]

Thanks for the info.

So yeah, if they don't have a weapon and don't look like they might you can't pull one out.

Not even as a deterrent?

No, as that shows you had intent to harm them. If you are obviously physically weaker, you may use a weapon with non-lethal force against an un-armed attacker, but you must not severely injure them or kill them.

 

[thedeathscythe]

I don't think they'd be stupid enough to come back, but a cap gun is good for warning shots.

WHAT?!

Dude, this is terrible advice, do not wave anything around that looks like a gun, unless its a gun you're willing to use. A cap gun? Seriously?

Otherwise decent advice in this thread.

Loud noises startle nervous people nosing around in stuff that doesn't belong to them. It's a good idea.

What if they have a gun? What if instead of comically running away they react violently? Why alert them to your position with a loud noise that sounds nothing like a gun? What if they're high as hell? etc etc

If the thieves had a real gun then he'd be screwed anyway. I doubt that they would come back without a good reason and shooting people will only make it worse for them.

Look I'm not going to argue with you any more about this.

Police themselves have never advocated such advice. If someone breaks into your house, leave and call police. Grab an actual weapon to defend yourself with if it will help.

Just as I said; it's good for warning shots. If things get worse then a real weapon on backup and the Cops on speedial should follow up.

What warning shots? He doesn't have a real gun. Why not just shout?

Caps guns are loud as hell in tight spaces and scare the shit out of people even if they're expecting it.

First off, they sound nothing like real guns, and second, police officers have accidently shot children because they waved cap guns at them. I wouldn't put it past a crook to pull out his own and actually get to work if you pointed a crudely made look-a-like in his direction. Just concede that you didn't fully think through your advice and stop trying to defend it. I can tell the OP isn't going to take this advice anyways, thankfully, but this is advice that can get you in a way worse position while not really having a high chance of working.

OT: You have a cricket bad and a steel pipe, now I'm not sure on the Australian laws but in Canada this would be fine, we also have the rule about using the same amount of force, but if anything does happen, just swing for the arms or body. It can be easy to critically hurt or even kill someone by attacking their head with an object, but if you go for his arms or body, you can hurt him, demoralizing him, or even rendering him unable to continue attacking you. I think that would be the best case scenario, if you broke his arm for instance, as opposed to breaking his skull open.

First and foremost though, turn on a light if they try and enter. If they think someones there (or in this case, know someones there), chances are they'll just leave without wanting to get into a confrontation. Why would these burglars want to possibly get hurt, arrested, killed, or get in any sort of trouble when they can just leave and try again later or just try a different house?

 

[Aur0ra145]

Australians use swords or a steel baseball (or cricket) bat. Also, invest in a bow and arrow. Medieval weaponry ftw!