Neutral Drow reviews: Princess Waltz

[Gigano]

...

It's another one of those things explained in more detail in later VN routes. Basically, Shirou's technically always been that strong, he just never actually knew how to use that power. That, and Archer's vague advice (imagine something to win, and put shape to it with your mind) make far more sense when you read Unlimited Blade Works. Actually, the thing that usually bugs people about that scene (me included) is why Caliburn had the power to do what it did, over how Shirou made it.

I expected it was some inherent power, awakened by hearing the wise words of a hardened warrior going to his death, it's just a fairly stereotypical way of going about things, and it feels like a rushed process in the Anime. I also wondered how just one stroke from a replica could have that effect, but I suppose that's Deus Ex Machina for you.

As for the footnote...yes, what you suspect is true. And frankly, I think the sexing makes a lot more sense. It's not really "transferring magic circuits to Saber" so much as just "giving her more mana" (specifically, via semen; blood can do the same, but that would mean forcing Saber to kill and drain people like Rider was doing). My first thought with the anime version was "wait a second, he can't do that! His magic circuits are too specialized for his particular magic, that's why she's so weak in the first place!"

The censored version sure doesn't make much sense, and worse yet it paints Rin in a fairly bizarre light for the set up, and makes Saber's behavioural change from "You shouldn't look at me as a woman" to "This body is too muscular" a fair bit arbitrary as an aftermath. But I suppose that's censorship for you.

Alternate. They're what would have happened if certain early events were changed (UBW is basically "what if Saber hadn't wounded Archer on Day 3?" and HF is "what if a certain background villain stepped into the arena?"), plus Shirou becoming closer to a different love interest in each, and facing different levels of challenge to his ideals (in other words, in Fate, he received basically none; this is vastly changed in the other two).

And actually, the anime didn't do too badly overall as far as plot and adapting character development for the Fate route, though I'm of the opinion that not being able to see Shirou's thought processes really does make him look stupider than he is. He's got a martyr complex, to be sure, but it's mainly trauma that catalyzed that into "no pragmatism or self-preservation" (most obviously in how he treats Saber; Fate and UBW are night and day in that regard). With one or two exceptions I can think of, he's only reckless in the other routes when desperation forces his hand.

I think he saw enough that a certain amount of compromising of them and an improvement of tactics should've been inevitable for any character, yet he just keeps on sacrificing himself without second thought - which isn't a problem in itself, but worse so often without any reason or imaginable hope of success either - and going so far as taking in as a dependant a cruel enemy gleeful at the thought of murdering those of his friends she hadn't offed yet just hours before. Part of how annoyed I am with him is of course how utterly different I would act (certainly with Rin here, if her actions rather than words), but I also feel he defies any plausible human reactions at times.

Seeing him forced to acknowledge how unfeasible and unreasonable both his pacifist harmless warfare ideal and emotion-based doormat methodology would be bliss by now, so if UBW and Heaven's Feel succeed in challenging them I'm certainly game for those.

And Rin...well, the game gets more into that, too. Suffice to say, she's not nearly as cold-blooded as she wants you to believe, and she has some very good reasons for not wanting to kill Shirou (even in the Bad Ends where she beats him in a fight, she just takes his command spells and erases his memory).

I had that feeling regarding her character, since her actions and expressions contradict her stated world view repeatedly, but I could still understand and approve a desire to off someone as irresponsible as him. Those must be some very good reasons to want to see him safely through even that.

...Sorry for turning the thread into a discussion on the merits of FSN rather than the game you actually reviewed this time around.

No, they go a bit differently explaining magic circuits in the VN. There's no actual circuit transferring going on, just... the single dumbest explanation for sex i've ever heard in my limited VN experience.

I'd much prefer sex over the idea of ripping out circuits as a mean of replenishment. I can see it work as a way forming a close conduit and exchanges between master and servant. Certainly not the only way one could've been chosen to go about it (and there's of course an ulterior reason as well this particular one was chosen), but I don't feel it's particularly off either. Though of course I haven't seen the actual scene...

 

[NeutralDrow]

I expected it was some inherent power, awakened by hearing the wise words of a hardened warrior going to his death, it's just a fairly stereotypical way of going about things...

Eventually, you will realize why that statement makes me chuckle.

Yeah, likewise. Maybe we should continue this elsewhere.

Oh, come now. I've gotten into far more off-topic conversations in my other reviews.

EDIT: ...though if you do want to stop, I'm game, of course.

Maybe I'm just paranoid, but I figured I should add that.

But no, sperm is magical and totally a valid reason for why we're lovers now. I guess my point is, there's a certain amount of depth being lost when you replace feelings with Magical Trevor.

To be honest, that's kind of why I didn't like Rin's scene...well, that, the general painful awkwardness in how it played out, and the nagging thought in my mind of "has Rin never heard of mutual masturbation?"

And really, I can sorta see that criticism applying to the first scene in Fate, but not the second. For the first, the best I can offer is that Shirou was trying to treat it like it had some depth, while Saber (and Rin) were guided by pragmatic necessity. I found I could accept the reason for it being an increase in Saber's self-consciousness around Shirou, and to set up the pure contrast with the second scene (when Saber insists beforehand that it's pragmatic with no feelings, then shows by her actions that she's lying through her teeth). I honestly thought I would cry at her line afterward suggesting they just fall asleep like that, and put off thinking about their problems 'til the morning.

And Heaven's Feel's first (well...second, remember?) scene was deliberately like that. Sakura herself found it awkward, and assumed Shirou was just having sex with her because she seduced him in a weak moment (and he really was too out of it to object) and because needed it...again, especially for the contrast of the final scene. The route as a whole was a lot better at integrating the sex.

Not...getting into the quality of the scenes themselves. I've already come to the conclusion that I'm part of an extreme minority that never noticed anything off with Nasu's language (though, come now, FSN's not nearly as bad as Tsukihime). I blame the music, the sexy, and my deathgrip on immersion.

 

[Gigano]

...
But we weren't really talking about the execution of the scenes. In that regard, Nasu is horrible, things are awkward, replacing any mention of genitals with brands of baked goods or ice-cream flavours is totally viable and you will never think of mollusks the same way again.
But there's no problem with that; the problem lies in replacing an act that stems from emotional feelings (and all the buildup to that point) with an easy excuse for gettin' your humpin' on. It's like a cheap action movie featuring Arnold Schwarzenegger destroying the entire millitary force of Congo because they're evil and they beat him at Pokemon. At least kill his wife or something, geez.

But no, sperm is magical and totally a valid reason for why we're lovers now. I guess my point is, there's a certain amount of depth being lost when you replace feelings with Magical Trevor.

I don't really mind the use of sex not only as a result of, but also as a catalyst for romantic entanglements and further bonding (isn't that how it goes none too seldom these days?). As long as there's something more to it, I'm comfortable with sex kicking it off. Shirou at least seemed to have his eyes on her womanly charms beforehand, while it apparently served as a catalyst for Saber to become more attached to him outside the "Master" role and view herself in a different light (though I got to see all of this come about by way of dragon mauling).

...

Eventually, you will realize why that statement makes me chuckle.

I hope so. The "level-up" through unleashing some vast hidden power in times of need certainly seem stereotypical for shounen anime (and I haven't even seen that many).

[small]As long as Archer's not his real father travelled forward in time to help prepare his heart for battle against some Satan-equivalent-de-jour...[/small]

...

EDIT: ...though if you do want to stop, I'm game, of course.

Maybe I'm just paranoid, but I figured I should add that.

Not at all.

I just thought that perhaps you wanted room for those who might have something to say on Princess Waltz rather than me calling for Shirou's head on a plate.

 

[ThatJoelGuy]

now this looks really really interesting. kudos, as usual for the great review.

Not...getting into the quality of the scenes themselves. I've already come to the conclusion that I'm part of an extreme minority that never noticed anything off with Nasu's language (though, come now, FSN's not nearly as bad as Tsukihime). I blame the music, the sexy, and my deathgrip on immersion.

yes something about mollusks wasn't it? oh funny

 

[The Diabolical Biz]

...and my deathgrip on immersion.

And that's not the only thing you had a deathgrip on. Eh? Eh??

Oh fine, I'll go.

 

[NeutralDrow]

(though I got to see all of this come about by way of dragon mauling).

In the game, you get to see how it comes about via threesome.

...

Eventually, you will realize why that statement makes me chuckle.

I hope so. The "level-up" through unleashing some vast hidden power in times of need certainly seem stereotypical for shounen anime (and I haven't even seen that many).

[small]As long as Archer's not his real father travelled forward in time to help prepare his heart for battle against some Satan-equivalent-de-jour...[/small]

No, nothing like that. Rather the opposite, in fact, in many ways.

now this looks really really interesting. kudos, as usual for the great review.

Thanks!

Not...getting into the quality of the scenes themselves. I've already come to the conclusion that I'm part of an extreme minority that never noticed anything off with Nasu's language (though, come now, FSN's not nearly as bad as Tsukihime). I blame the music, the sexy, and my deathgrip on immersion.

yes something about mollusks wasn't it? oh funny

Fun fact: I'm a very visual person, and yet I never, ever noticed the "mollusk" line in Kagetsu Tohya until the internet pointed it out, half a year after I played the game.

I think I was too busy imagining what Shiki was actually describing: twin lesbian labia frottage. Who's got time to notice a metaphor like that when Hisui and Kohaku are getting it on?

...yeah, Flower of Thanatos was a weird short story.

 

[NeutralDrow]

...and my deathgrip on immersion.

And that's not the only thing you had a deathgrip on. Eh? Eh??

Oh fine, I'll go.

For making me imagine that, please do...not that strong, ow...

 

[ThatJoelGuy]

(though I got to see all of this come about by way of dragon mauling).

In the game, you get to see how it comes about via threesome.

...

Eventually, you will realize why that statement makes me chuckle.

I hope so. The "level-up" through unleashing some vast hidden power in times of need certainly seem stereotypical for shounen anime (and I haven't even seen that many).

[small]As long as Archer's not his real father travelled forward in time to help prepare his heart for battle against some Satan-equivalent-de-jour...[/small]

No, nothing like that. Rather the opposite, in fact, in many ways.

now this looks really really interesting. kudos, as usual for the great review.

Thanks!

Not...getting into the quality of the scenes themselves. I've already come to the conclusion that I'm part of an extreme minority that never noticed anything off with Nasu's language (though, come now, FSN's not nearly as bad as Tsukihime). I blame the music, the sexy, and my deathgrip on immersion.

yes something about mollusks wasn't it? oh funny

Fun fact: I'm a very visual person, and yet I never, ever noticed the "mollusk" line in Kagetsu Tohya until the internet pointed it out, half a year after I played the game.

I think I was too busy imagining what Shiki was actually describing: twin lesbian labia frottage. Who's got time to notice a metaphor like that when Hisui and Kohaku are getting it on?

...yeah, Flower of Thanatos was a weird short story.

yeah well i wouldn't have noticed if my girlfriend of the time didn't start giggling. i to didn't see for myself. yet another guy distracted by girl on girl

 

[The Diabolical Biz]

...and my deathgrip on immersion.

And that's not the only thing you had a deathgrip on. Eh? Eh??

Oh fine, I'll go.

For making me imagine that, please do...not that strong, ow...

I'm truly sorry, I couldn't help myself.

I feel I owe you an 'OT' now.

So OT: Actually a very good review, informative and to the point, explaining the plus sides of the game without spoiling anything

 

[NeutralDrow]

...and my deathgrip on immersion.

And that's not the only thing you had a deathgrip on. Eh? Eh??

Oh fine, I'll go.

For making me imagine that, please do...not that strong, ow...

I'm truly sorry, I couldn't help myself.

I feel I owe you an 'OT' now.

So OT: Actually a very good review, informative and to the point, explaining the plus sides of the game without spoiling anything

Oh, good, I succeeded, then. I was a little more nervous with this one, since I had to write about half of it four months after I beat the game. Combination of horrid work ethic and school.

Thanks!

 

[toroidal]

On PW: I can't really give it too high a score, given how much it pales in comparison to F/sn. I can't just ignore all of my prior experiences when judging something, and this VN doesn't seem to succeed too well in hiding its "borrowing" anyways. I concur that the difficulty cliff doesn't help the gameplay appeal either. Fortunately, some of the characters are interesting enough for me to say that I at least enjoyed it.

On sex scenes: I never thought that they were notably bad, but I guess at this point I'm just inured to how uniformly crappy most eroge sex scenes are. I mean, I've seen mollusks in sex scenes that are NOT written by Nasu, so at this point, it'll take a lot for me to notice one way or another.