Never thought I'd feel sorry for these guys.

[Yumi_and_Erea]

Today I read a report in a newspaper about an investigation by the American Military Veteran's Psychiatric Evaluation Council.

According to the researchers, 1 in every 4 Iraq-veterans returns to civilian life with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, suicidal depression or both.
It also went on to say that 1 in 3 veterans has recurring nightmares about their time in Iraq and 1 in 7 becomes alcoholic upon return.

"This officially makes the Iraq-war the second-most traumatizing war in US history, surpassed only by Vietnam." say the councilors.

I normally don't care for soldiers (and even less for those in Iraq because unlike Vietnam-veterans, these guys are volunteers and not conscripts) but in reading this I can't help but feel for these guys. They left their old lives to fight in the war but upon return they can't pick those old lives up again. The war literally destroyed their lives as they knew it.

I'm a psychiatrist myself so I know how serious PTSD can be and the notion that the US is filled with thousands of trigger-happy soldiers afflicted by it is a very disturbing one indeed.

Anyway, how do you feel about soldiers getting traumatized like this?
Is it their own fault for volunteering? The government's fault for starting the war in the first place?
Or is it just an inherent horror of war, and this is just a particularly visceral example?

 

[Legion]

Anyway, how do you feel about soldiers getting traumatized like this?
Is it their own fault for volunteering?
The government's fault for starting the war in the first place?
Or is it just an inherent horror of war, and this is just a particularly visceral example?

It's bad, because more often than not their duty is glamorised prior to getting sent out there and a lot of them have no idea what they are getting themselves into.

Not really, while this kind of thing happens, nobody expects it to happen to them, the fact they are traumatised shows that they aren't sadistic bastards at least.

Mainly yes, especially as there are strong arguments against the war in the first place, there is little legitimate reasoning behind it all.

This is the heart of the matter, wars now are a hell of a lot less dirty than they were before.

 

[BonsaiK]

I find it hard to hate on soldiers, on any side. Soldiers in any war generally just sign up to protect and serve their country. You sign up in good faith that your abilities and talents are going to be utilised responsibly. It's the government and/or leaders of your operation that are responsible for where you get sent and what you get ordered to do.

Keep in mind also that for someone living in poverty and/or in a bad socio-economic situation, joining the Army might be one of the few realistic and legitimate options available for them to make money and feel like they can have self-esteem and be useful to society.

 

[Danpascooch]

Anyway, how do you feel about soldiers getting traumatized like this?
Is it their own fault for volunteering?
The government's fault for starting the war in the first place?
Or is it just an inherent horror of war, and this is just a particularly visceral example?

It's bad, because more often than not their duty is glamorised prior to getting sent out there and a lot of them have no idea what they are getting themselves into.

Not really, while this kind of thing happens, nobody expects it to happen to them, the fact they are traumatised shows that they aren't sadistic bastards at least.

Mainly yes, especially as there are strong arguments against the war in the first place, there is little legitimate reasoning behind it all.

This is the heart of the matter, wars now are a hell of a lot less dirty than they were before.

QFT

Wars long ago were fought hand to hand with melee weapons and armor technology grew with weapon technology, with the guns we have in modern society, it's all about who gets the drop on who, and I can imagine that frays the hell out of your nerves constantly, it's no big surprise it messes them up, I'd go insane.

 

[Drakmeire]

I believe all war in history has had this effect, It was just less common in WWII because of how little we humanized the enemy ( which may have lowered the soldier's guilt) and any post-traumatic stress experienced after that war was most likely never diagnosed or documented because of poor psychiatric help in the and 40's and 50's.

 

[case_orange]

Or is it just an inherent horror of war, and this is just a particularly visceral example?

This.

Also, a report I read a few months ago mentioned how high the rates of PTSD and mental problems are among the Taliban. Doesn't matter which side you're on, fucked-up stuff will have an effect on you're mental health, period.

Also, read "On Killing" by Lt.Col Dave Grossman for a great explanation of killing, violence, PTSD, and how some folks just don't get it (hint: Officers, medics, and sociopaths tend to have lower rates of PTSD, though for different reasons).

 

[Rainboq]

Anyway, how do you feel about soldiers getting traumatized like this?
Is it their own fault for volunteering? The government's fault for starting the war in the first place?
Or is it just an inherent horror of war, and this is just a particularly visceral example?

War is war, and war is HELL, no matter how you look at it.

what I'm disappointed by is the lack of government help Vets are getting

 

[Fetzenfisch]

Anyway, how do you feel about soldiers getting traumatized like this?
Is it their own fault for volunteering? The government's fault for starting the war in the first place?
Or is it just an inherent horror of war, and this is just a particularly visceral example?

War is war, and war is HELL, no matter how you look at it.

what I'm disappointed by is the lack of government help Vets are getting

Yup thats it. No one should join that club and think its fun and games. They know what they have to expect. Blood, Dirt,Death and global disapproval. If they think its worth the bucks they earn, tough luck.

 

[Rainboq]

Anyway, how do you feel about soldiers getting traumatized like this?
Is it their own fault for volunteering? The government's fault for starting the war in the first place?
Or is it just an inherent horror of war, and this is just a particularly visceral example?

War is war, and war is HELL, no matter how you look at it.

what I'm disappointed by is the lack of government help Vets are getting

Yup thats it. No one should join that club and think its fun and games. They know what they have to expect. Blood, Dirt,Death and global disapproval. If they think its worth the bucks they earn, tough luck.

But there is a few things war is good for, new tech, population control and generally an economic boom for the victor

 

[Fetzenfisch]

Anyway, how do you feel about soldiers getting traumatized like this?
Is it their own fault for volunteering? The government's fault for starting the war in the first place?
Or is it just an inherent horror of war, and this is just a particularly visceral example?

War is war, and war is HELL, no matter how you look at it.

what I'm disappointed by is the lack of government help Vets are getting

Yup thats it. No one should join that club and think its fun and games. They know what they have to expect. Blood, Dirt,Death and global disapproval. If they think its worth the bucks they earn, tough luck.

But there is a few things war is good for, new tech, population control and generally an economic boom for the victor

Well true, plus if there havent been war before, i couldnt channel my animehatred by playing pacific assault.

 

[Velvo]

You know, I think that there were probably some other US wars that were more traumatizing. I mean, the Civil War? That was bloody as SHIT. It's just that people didn't give two shits about PTSD back then. Nowadays we actually care about mental health enough to give those afflicted with such a condition recognition.

 

[Rainboq]

Anyway, how do you feel about soldiers getting traumatized like this?
Is it their own fault for volunteering? The government's fault for starting the war in the first place?
Or is it just an inherent horror of war, and this is just a particularly visceral example?

War is war, and war is HELL, no matter how you look at it.

what I'm disappointed by is the lack of government help Vets are getting

Yup thats it. No one should join that club and think its fun and games. They know what they have to expect. Blood, Dirt,Death and global disapproval. If they think its worth the bucks they earn, tough luck.

But there is a few things war is good for, new tech, population control and generally an economic boom for the victor

Well true, plus if there havent been war before, i couldnt channel my animehatred by playing pacific assault.

Yeah, its just a pity what happens to the poor saps who fight

 

[Riobux]

More traumatising than WW1 and WW2?

Come on...

Edit: On second thought, I'm curious about the collection of their statistics. WW1 and WW2 didn't hand out psychiatric papers freely to their soldiers, a lot of things were not recognised as psychiatric problems until much later on and becoming an alcoholic was not monitored during the late 40s and the 50s.

 

[Yumi_and_Erea]

Anyway, how do you feel about soldiers getting traumatized like this?
Is it their own fault for volunteering? The government's fault for starting the war in the first place?
Or is it just an inherent horror of war, and this is just a particularly visceral example?

War is war, and war is HELL, no matter how you look at it.

what I'm disappointed by is the lack of government help Vets are getting

Yup thats it. No one should join that club and think its fun and games. They know what they have to expect. Blood, Dirt,Death and global disapproval. If they think its worth the bucks they earn, tough luck.

But there is a few things war is good for, new tech, population control and generally an economic boom for the victor

Yes, the US sure did experience a "economic boom" after the Cold War.

Why, those 47.000 nuclear warheads, 15 planes encircling Russia 24/7 365 days a year and the fact that they spent over 31 times as much as the Sovjet-Union did on Vietnam will surely start to pay off any minute now!

/sarcasm.

Sorry about that, it's just that I honestly don't believe there's much of a point to war, let alone a good point.

 

[Yumi_and_Erea]

More traumatising than WW1 and WW2?

Come on...

At least in those wars you had a clearly defined enemy at a clearly defined front.

Iraq and Vietnam are both guerilla-wars, which means that you can never be sure that you're safe, which means that you're infinetly more likely to become paranoid.

 

[Riobux]

At least in those wars you had a clearly defined enemy at a clearly defined front.

Iraq and Vietnam are both guerilla-wars, which means that you can never be sure that you're safe, which means that you're infinetly more likely to become paranoid.

I guess, but I do get the feeling there was a lot of nasty things happening in WW1 and WW2 that screwed a lot of people up. Not many people can shrug off their friend being shot in front of them, which happened a lot obviously. There was probably also a lot of fears of sleeping in case the enemy charged at them. WW1 held it's fears that you were going to get gassed and I'm sure some people were absolutely scared of "going over" just because they knew what would happen.

 

[Rainboq]

Anyway, how do you feel about soldiers getting traumatized like this?
Is it their own fault for volunteering? The government's fault for starting the war in the first place?
Or is it just an inherent horror of war, and this is just a particularly visceral example?

War is war, and war is HELL, no matter how you look at it.

what I'm disappointed by is the lack of government help Vets are getting

Yup thats it. No one should join that club and think its fun and games. They know what they have to expect. Blood, Dirt,Death and global disapproval. If they think its worth the bucks they earn, tough luck.

But there is a few things war is good for, new tech, population control and generally an economic boom for the victor

Yes, the US sure did experience a "economic boom" after the Cold War.

Why, those 47.000 nuclear warheads, 15 planes encircling Russia 24/7 365 days a year and the fact that they spent over 31 times as much as the Sovjet-Union did on Vietnam will surely start to pay off any minute now!

/sarcasm.

Sorry about that, it's just that I honestly don't believe there's much of a point to war, let alone a good point.

With ~7 billion people on the planet, population control is actually a good thing, besides, without war, we wouldn't have things like the computer, radar, sonar, etc. Necessity is the mother of invention

 

[Timbydude]

I'm of the opinion that war is a necessary evil. There are some things that just can't be settled with diplomacy, and when there is an irreconcilable conflict of interests, there aren't many other options.

I still hate the fact that war has to happen, and I have incredible respect and pity for every soldier in the line of duty, and not just ours either. Even if it's a war that has no real basis, these people are still just trying to protect our freedoms. Simply put, I just don't have the guts to put my life on the line like that, which makes me revere them all the more.

 

[WINDOWCLEAN2]

"When the rich wage war it's the poor who die..."

I feel very much for these guys, all I can say is i hope they come home safe.