New hard game comes out. Idiot press wants easy mode.

[BrawlMan]

?Man, I like what this game is going for. I wish I could see more of it. Maybe an easy mode??

?No, fuck you, no.?

Flash backs to the Mega Man easy mode flame wars. As in, literally the same arguments.

Clearly, Mega Man didn?t suffer for it.

I remember that. There many an argument on forums everywhere.

Because more people being able to experience the story and world of a game you like is terrible, yes.

It's not like it's giving them a leg up in multiplayer against you. Maybe they like the world or the sound of the story or the general aesthetics. Maybe they actually like the combat system, but the game as it stands is a bit too demanding on their reflexes or their patience?

Not everyone has time to die a bunch to every boss and "master" a game. People have jobs, kids, family commitments, etc.
Getting frothing mad at the concept of more people being able to enjoy a game you like is the type of gatekeeping behaviour gamers are notorious for.

Let people enjoy themselves. It doesn't impact on your fun, you can still play it how you want.

This. Everyone has a different skill gap and different schedules. It's why I don't bother with long JRPGs/WRPGs or "open world" games.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

offer a man others to look down upon and they will empty their pockets for you

 

[Bilious Green_v1legacy]

I personally wouldn't care; I don't really much care about the whole "git gud" aspect of many games, but I've been gaming since the 80's when games were way harder than even FromSoft's games, so my tolerance for beating my face against difficulty is probably higher than most. However, I think that FromSoft games are an unusual case where reducing the difficulty would take away a fundamental part of what makes them good. Sure, someone could play on "easy" mode, but they would not be experiencing the game the way the people who play it on the intended difficulty would, and they would not be experiencing the game the way the creators intended. Given how many times we have heard this complaint about the barriers to entry of FromSoft games, I think its safe to assume that FromSoft have made a conscious decision to stick their creative vision and not include difficulty options. Some people might not like it, but this is how FromSoft want to make their games, and they shouldn't be expected to change it. There is nothing wrong with FromSoft games being a niche for the hardcore; not all games have to be for everyone.

That's not how you stated it though. You claimed having an easy mode would defeat the purpose to the games. "Persevering and learning through failure" is pretty much saying 'git gud'.

Fromsoft should make games however they want to make 'm, it's the fanbase that gets protective and insulted at the mere mention of an Easy mode. Almost as if it hurts their pride. Again, an Easy mode would not take away YOUR way of playing the game, it would not take away a fundemental part of what makes them good, only add a different way for more casual players to enjoy it.

And since when is experiencing the game as intended by the developers so ironclad? PC gaming prides itself on modding and changing games to suit the needs of the player. Is this ruining those games as well, or is it simply an option should you want it? I mean, do you get mad at the idea of people who watch let's plays of Souls games, or who look up strategy videos to defeat a Boss as well? That's not how the developers intended for you to experience the game either.

I still think that having an easy mode would defeat the purpose of the game. If you can just breeze through the levels, then the core gameplay loop of the game - fail, learn, repeat, overcome, would no longer exist. Playing these games without that structure would make it just another action game. Sure, the "casuals" could play the game, but they wouldn't really be playing the game properly, they'd just be playing a diluted version of it and they wouldn't get the true experience. I think that if you're going to play Souls, play Souls. If you don't want to play Souls (and all that entails), then don't. There plenty of other good games out there to play instead if you don't enjoy the Souls experience. FromSoft games are designed for people who thrive on the challenge, and I don't really see why these games should have to change to accommodate people they aren't intended for.

 

[Trunkage]

I personally wouldn't care; I don't really much care about the whole "git gud" aspect of many games, but I've been gaming since the 80's when games were way harder than even FromSoft's games, so my tolerance for beating my face against difficulty is probably higher than most. However, I think that FromSoft games are an unusual case where reducing the difficulty would take away a fundamental part of what makes them good. Sure, someone could play on "easy" mode, but they would not be experiencing the game the way the people who play it on the intended difficulty would, and they would not be experiencing the game the way the creators intended. Given how many times we have heard this complaint about the barriers to entry of FromSoft games, I think its safe to assume that FromSoft have made a conscious decision to stick their creative vision and not include difficulty options. Some people might not like it, but this is how FromSoft want to make their games, and they shouldn't be expected to change it. There is nothing wrong with FromSoft games being a niche for the hardcore; not all games have to be for everyone.

That's not how you stated it though. You claimed having an easy mode would defeat the purpose to the games. "Persevering and learning through failure" is pretty much saying 'git gud'.

Fromsoft should make games however they want to make 'm, it's the fanbase that gets protective and insulted at the mere mention of an Easy mode. Almost as if it hurts their pride. Again, an Easy mode would not take away YOUR way of playing the game, it would not take away a fundemental part of what makes them good, only add a different way for more casual players to enjoy it.

And since when is experiencing the game as intended by the developers so ironclad? PC gaming prides itself on modding and changing games to suit the needs of the player. Is this ruining those games as well, or is it simply an option should you want it? I mean, do you get mad at the idea of people who watch let's plays of Souls games, or who look up strategy videos to defeat a Boss as well? That's not how the developers intended for you to experience the game either.

I still think that having an easy mode would defeat the purpose of the game. If you can just breeze through the levels, then the core gameplay loop of the game - fail, learn, repeat, overcome, would no longer exist. Playing these games without that structure would make it just another action game. Sure, the "casuals" could play the game, but they wouldn't really be playing the game properly, they'd just be playing a diluted version of it and they wouldn't get the true experience. I think that if you're going to play Souls, play Souls. If you don't want to play Souls (and all that entails), then don't. There plenty of other good games out there to play instead if you don't enjoy the Souls experience. FromSoft games are designed for people who thrive on the challenge, and I don't really see why these games should have to change to accommodate people they aren't intended for.

Its okay for the people not compentent enough or don't have time, to have a sub par experience. As long as your experience is great, what's the difference?

 

[Casual Shinji]

I still think that having an easy mode would defeat the purpose of the game. If you can just breeze through the levels, then the core gameplay loop of the game - fail, learn, repeat, overcome, would no longer exist. Playing these games without that structure would make it just another action game. Sure, the "casuals" could play the game, but they wouldn't really be playing the game properly, they'd just be playing a diluted version of it and they wouldn't get the true experience. I think that if you're going to play Souls, play Souls. If you don't want to play Souls (and all that entails), then don't. There plenty of other good games out there to play instead if you don't enjoy the Souls experience. FromSoft games are designed for people who thrive on the challenge, and I don't really see why these games should have to change to accommodate people they aren't intended for.

The true experience of a game doesn't exist, everybody is going to experience a game (or any piece of fiction) in their own way. I'm sure there've been a lot of speedruns of Dark Souls and Bloodborne where the player in question found ways to break the game in order to skip Bosses, not to mention many other exploits people used that weren't intended by the developers. These people aren't getting the "true" experience either, they're getting the experience they want. Yet this is not looked down upon by Souls fans, but something equally as optional and non-invasive like an Easy mode is. It comes across as the fanbase turning up their noses at the concept of their elite game being open to the commoners.

Fromsoft shouldn't be bullied into making an Easy mode if they don't want to, but at the same time fans shouldn't act like an Easy mode would sully the experience. It's an Easy 'mode', and it's honestly no different from looking up tips online; there for the people who want to make use of it. Heck, the undying guy in Sekiro can be considered an Easy mode; a consequence free way of learning the combat and honing one's reflexes. Are people who make extensive use of that mechanic not getting the true experience either?

 

[stroopwafel]

snip

Literally, this is only a problem if you ever press easy mode. If From only did Easy mode, I'd agree with you.

Otherwise, it will never effect you. Like ever.

It's like a heterosexual banning homosexuality because they don't like relationships that way and no one should have it.

Completely disagree. Even for myself if I would get stuck on a boss I would resort to easy mode simply b/c the option for instant relief is right there. You are constantly dangling that carrot in front of players that there is an easy win. It would be impossible to not give in to that temptation. Again that would annihilate the entire design philosophy of the game(namely overcoming challenges, as also part of it's world vision) and subsequently diminish the entire experience. Espescially since the challenge is part of it's integral structure unlike other games. Easy mode doesn't belong in Fromsoftware games and they should never include it, as I'm also absolutely convinced Miyazaki never will.

 

[Erttheking]

snip

Literally, this is only a problem if you ever press easy mode. If From only did Easy mode, I'd agree with you.

Otherwise, it will never effect you. Like ever.

It's like a heterosexual banning homosexuality because they don't like relationships that way and no one should have it.

Completely disagree. Even for myself if I would get stuck on a boss I would resort to easy mode simply b/c the option for instant relief is right there. You are constantly dangling that carrot in front of players that there is an easy win. It would be impossible to not give in to that temptation. Again that would annihilate the entire design philosophy of the game(namely overcoming challenges, as also part of it's world vision) and subsequently diminish the entire experience. Espescially since the challenge is part of it's integral structure unlike other games. Easy mode doesn't belong in Fromsoftware games and they should never include it, as I'm also absolutely convinced Miyazaki never will.

If you?re tempted to go to easy mode to progress it sounds like you weren?t having fun in the higher difficulty. Also I find the idea of easy mode being some kind of temptation to give into, like its some kind of vice, to be hilarious.

 

[Thaluikhain]

So...giving players options is bad? I thought that only applied to gender and race and sexuality stuff, also applies to game difficulty?

And I like the argument that "this game isn't for everyone". Yeah, if it's got an easy mode, it's not for people who think players shouldn't have the option of an easy mode.

 

[stroopwafel]

snip

Literally, this is only a problem if you ever press easy mode. If From only did Easy mode, I'd agree with you.

Otherwise, it will never effect you. Like ever.

It's like a heterosexual banning homosexuality because they don't like relationships that way and no one should have it.

Completely disagree. Even for myself if I would get stuck on a boss I would resort to easy mode simply b/c the option for instant relief is right there. You are constantly dangling that carrot in front of players that there is an easy win. It would be impossible to not give in to that temptation. Again that would annihilate the entire design philosophy of the game(namely overcoming challenges, as also part of it's world vision) and subsequently diminish the entire experience. Espescially since the challenge is part of it's integral structure unlike other games. Easy mode doesn't belong in Fromsoftware games and they should never include it, as I'm also absolutely convinced Miyazaki never will.

If you?re tempted to go to easy mode to progress it sounds like you weren?t having fun in the higher difficulty. Also I find the idea of easy mode being some kind of temptation to give into, like its some kind of vice, to be hilarious.

It has nothing to do with not having fun(Fromsoft games are my most favorite) but the tendency to rush through things when given the option. An easy mode would imply the game having to accomodate different skill levels and that by default undermines the challenge as part of it's integral structure. It just becomes another action game like Devil May Cry where very few people play on hardcore simply b/c there is no point to it. You don't seem to understand the difference between challenge as part of a game's structure and challenge as part of a menu option that is more artificial. In Fromsoftware games the challenge is part of it's identity(from it's world vision to gameplay mechanics) and you take away that core principle and the entire experience is diminished.

 

[Lufia Erim]

Some of us have things called 'jobs' that don't ALLOW us to 'master' every damn game that comes out.

I'd love to play this game, but I also know that I don't have the time (or the skill) to complete it.

Why do children, and the unemployed, think everyone has the 10s or 100s of hours to master every game out there?

Then Don't buy it, the game is clearly not marketed for you. Every single person who bought Sekiro knew what they were getting into as soon as they saw " FROM SOFTWARE" on the box.

Same with dark souls and bloodborn. The difficulty is literally part ( though not the entirety) of it's identity.

Not every game is for everyone. No one is asking for a hard mode in Easy games. Leave the creative designs to the devs. They made their games like this on purpose. Everything, from the level design and the boss design is crafted around the difficulty, there are other, equally good games that have an easy mode.

 

[Erttheking]

It has nothing to do with not having fun(Fromsoft games are my most favorite) but the tendency to rush through things when given the option. An easy mode would imply the game having to accomodate different skill levels and that by default undermines the challenge as part of it's integral structure. It just becomes another action game like Devil May Cry where very few people play on hardcore simply b/c there is no point to it. You don't seem to understand the difference between challenge as part of a game's structure and challenge as part of a menu option that is more artificial. In Fromsoftware games the challenge is part of it's identity(from it's world vision to gameplay mechanics) and you take away that core principle and the entire experience is diminished.

So in other words, the only people appreciate From Software's difficulty in their games is because we're all railroaded into it? No offense, it sounds like you have no respect for From Software as developers. If you think that an optional easy mode would lead to no one playing on the harder difficulty. I mean we all know the hardcore From fanbase would stick to the harder difficulty, if only because the hardcore From fanbase takes itself far too seriously.

I mean, come on man. You talk about an easy difficulty the same way Christians talk about Lucier tempting Christ during his forty days in the desert. Do you really think the appeal of the difficult aspect of From games can only be maintained when people are forced to play it? Because that suggests no one would ever seek it out willingly. Which doesn't really have a lot of respect for the game.

(Also, you may not be aware of this, but you can have difficulty options on games where easy is still hard. It's just less hard)

https://store.playstation.com/store/api/chihiro/00_09_000/container/US/en/999/UP9000-NPUD21621_00-0000000000000000/1527148947000/image?w=240&h=240&bg_color=000000&opacity=100&_version=00_09_000

https://www.dlcompare.com/img/ftl-faster-than-light-img-4.jpg

 

[Baffle]

I get really quite irrationally angry when people insist on reading English translations of Sun Tzu's The Art of War. These fuckers want to look all cultured and elite, reading a famous book and all that, talking about it during high-society wine bar shindigs, but none of the lazy shitbags wants to go through years of learning Chinese. I am absolutely fuming.

 

[Lufia Erim]

I'd love to play this game, but I also know that I don't have the time (or the skill) to complete it.

You clearly understand the game isn't targeted for you then right?

Why does it hurt your ego so much that a developer made a game that's not for you?

Do you hate other people having fun and you're missing out?

You are quick to call people "children or unemployed" but you are the one obviously lacking in maturity.

Out of the 100s of games that came out every year, is Sekiro the only one you want?There are a plethora of other games. Go play those.

 

[Erttheking]

Why does it hurt your ego so much that a developer made a game that's not for you?

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I'm sorry, you're accusing the people who are pro-easy mode as having a bruised ego. I just-oh god the projection is too much.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Not every game is for everyone. No one is asking for a hard mode in Easy games.

Actually I've seen more than a few times it be suggested Pokemon have a sort of Veteran's or Hardcore mode for older players who do not need the game to hold their hand, make the AI a bit more brutal etc. So the concept of a hard mode for easy games is not unheard of.

 

[Erttheking]

Not every game is for everyone. No one is asking for a hard mode in Easy games.

Actually I've seen more than a few times it be suggested Pokemon have a sort of Veteran's or Hardcore mode for older players who do not need the game to hold their hand, make the AI a bit more brutal etc. So the concept of a hard mode for easy games is not unheard of.

I've also seen people complain that Wind Waker was a bit too much on the easy side. Now we have Master Mode in Breath of the Wild.

 

[stroopwafel]

It has nothing to do with not having fun(Fromsoft games are my most favorite) but the tendency to rush through things when given the option. An easy mode would imply the game having to accomodate different skill levels and that by default undermines the challenge as part of it's integral structure. It just becomes another action game like Devil May Cry where very few people play on hardcore simply b/c there is no point to it. You don't seem to understand the difference between challenge as part of a game's structure and challenge as part of a menu option that is more artificial. In Fromsoftware games the challenge is part of it's identity(from it's world vision to gameplay mechanics) and you take away that core principle and the entire experience is diminished.

So in other words, the only people appreciate From Software's difficulty in their games is because we're all railroaded into it? No offense, it sounds like you have no respect for From Software as developers. If you think that an optional easy mode would lead to no one playing on the harder difficulty. I mean we all know the hardcore From fanbase would stick to the harder difficulty, if only because the hardcore From fanbase takes itself far too seriously.

I mean, come on man. You talk about an easy difficulty the same way Christians talk about Lucier tempting Christ during his forty days in the desert. Do you really think the appeal of the difficult aspect of From games can only be maintained when people are forced to play it? Because that suggests no one would ever seek it out willingly. Which doesn't really have a lot of respect for the game.

(Also, you may not be aware of this, but you can have difficulty options on games where easy is still hard. It's just less hard)

I explained 3 times now how the challenge in Fromsofware games is an essential part of it's creative vision but let me re-iterate in a way you understand: challenge is no challenge if it's optional.

 

[Bernzz]

Why does it hurt your ego so much that a developer made a game that's not for you?

Why would it hurt your ego for FromSoftware to add an easy mode you wouldn't be required to ever play?

Do you hate other people having fun and you're missing out?

"Do you hate other people having fun?"
"No easy mode, I don't want more people to enjoy this game."

You can't accuse anyone else of not wanting people to have fun when you're the one advocating against extra options to make the game more accessible for more people.

Big hint: more options, like an easy mode, would result in other people having fun. That concept you're apparently so keen on.

 

[Erttheking]

I explained 3 times now how the challenge in Fromsofware games is an essential part of it's creative vision but let me re-iterate in a way you understand: challenge is no challenge if it's optional.

....False. Ok? False. Or are you saying every time I chose to play on a harder difficulty mode, it wasn't actually a challenge? That Dark Souls II's champion convent isn't really a challenge?

 

[stroopwafel]

I explained 3 times now how the challenge in Fromsofware games is an essential part of it's creative vision but let me re-iterate in a way you understand: challenge is no challenge if it's optional.

....False. Ok? False. Or are you saying every time I chose to play on a harder difficulty mode, it wasn't actually a challenge? That Dark Souls II's champion convent isn't really a challenge?

Again you fail to make the difference between a challenge that is deliberate and well designed from the ground up as the game is actually being developed and a difficulty that is mostly artificial by simply ramping up the numbers.