New Vegas: Why Join the Legion?

[IamLEAM1983]

The one and only reason to join the Legion, the way I see things, is if you see your Courier being a secretly power-hungry schmoe who finally stumbles onto a way to make it big if he's willing to step over a few corpses.

The same way the only reason you'd want to join the Stormcloaks is if you're playing a xenophobic Nord. In both cases, it's more a what-if situation than anything concrete. I'd compare it to blowing up Megaton in Fallout 3, as your character has to be severely emotionally and morally bankrupt to consider it.

For all of Obsidian's work to create a more nuanced take on the Fallout-verse à la Bethesda, going Legion still honestly feels like you're playing as the secret lovechild of Hitler and Ceaucescu, with a side order of Pol Pot and Kim Jong-Un.

 

[DrunkenMonkey]

Because Fallout New Vegas is awesome that's why.

The option exists to join the legion for those want to role play as a bad guy. The majority of people who play videogames are conditioned to play the part of a hero, so that's why there aren't too many serious examples of people genuinely joining the legion, because our inbred hero instincts prevent us from doing so.

 

[Mycroft Holmes]

I would point out that all 4 major faction are a political extrem
House is Corporatism
the Legion are Conservative
NRC is Socialism
Yes-Man is Libertarian

This post really confuses me.

Corporatism is short hand for a form of socialism that fosters several private corporations with government policies and then taxes them in order to provide social services for the middle class and to ensure the supremacy of the aforementioned corporations. House doesn't have any interest in any of that.

What exactly is the connection between the Legion and Conservatism? Did I miss the part where Caesar started talking about how great limited government is, or where the mostly homosexual legion somehow hates gay marriage?

How is the NCR socialist? It's a country ruled by giant capitalist cattle barons holding politicians in their pockets. Do you consider the United States to be a socialist country? Because the NCR is pound for pound the exact same thing with the exact same policies as the US.

What does taking over a city state with a robotic army have to do with Libertarianism? Are all new countries automatically libertarian?

 

[Altorin]

the battle between the legion and the NCR is like the battles between the athenians and the spartans. They both do atrocious things in combat but have different values. We're seeing an area that the NCR considers secured after a hardfought battle against the Legion, but as far as the legion is concerned, this is a scout far ahead of their mainforce, at least until the end when Caesar brings his full faculties to bear in the second war for the Hoover Dam. We only see travesties and horrible things from the legion because the legion in the mojave are the terrorist wing of the Legion's forces, meant to have the enemy army pissing themselves before the big battle. We see only the sliver of a small part of the greatness of Caesar's Legion in the game.. the rest of the Areas settled by Caesar run just as smoothly as the NCR cities, maybe smoother. It's perhaps a little orwellian, but they're fed in a world that doesn't need to feed them.

When you talk to Caesar, once you break past his hard "fuck you with a rake" exterior, you can see exactly what he's trying to do, but also see where he failed in his logic, at least with concerns to decency. It's sort of like Andrew Ryan's Rapture is more disturbing because in a lot of ways, the initial spark that drove its creation were good. That's how I feel about Caesar's Legion. I don't think the game really did them justice because it wasn't set up to focus on them.

In other similar "not properly established in game", Benny is actually quite an insane survivalist.. it's easy to forget sometimes that the Families of the Las Vegas strip are a relatively new thing and not long ago the families were all just roving tribes living off the land. It's mentioned, but in the end, it's easier to just see them the way they want to be seen.

 

[Doom972]

In one of my playthroughs I played a female for the soul purpose to see if the developers would stay true to the lore they had set up... and I was upset they threw it all out. The legion sees women as breeders and slaves.

I know playing a female and expecting to be beaten over the head and made a slave seems a little off but I wondered if they'd keep to their own story. Instead I was a male character who couldn't fight in the ring. Granted when you're able to ***** slap Kerrigan out of the Queen ***** of the universe position that might explain why the male peasants wouldn't dare!!!

I know how you feel. I felt more like that when I played Skyrim. I played a High-Elf and never had the opportunity to join or help the Thalmor. Also, it appears that while Khajiits are banned from cities, the player character (even if not considered dragonborn yet), somehow gets a free pass.

 

[Jeyal]

Caesar respects power. The NCR wants a lapdog. House wants a servant.

He's the only faction (save for yourself) that respects your unique talents.

 

[Hades]

The only reason I can see for supporting the Legion is if you care about what's best for humans in the long run, rather than individuals. Their goal isn't to make people happy, it's to secure the future from falling back into what it was like before.

They are very much a "The ends justifies the means" kind of group and they are looking at the big picture far more than any of the other groups are.

Personally I could never join them because that is not how I look at things, but there is a logic to their side beyond "Evil for teh lulz", it's just harsh, cruel and if you have any morals in regards to individuals, wrong.

The legion does seem to be the best choice for an ''evil'' character. If you want to be evil who are better friends then barbaric xenofobic slavers.

Also a faction based on the Romans is at least worth checking out, its how i ended up with the Imperials in Skyrim.

The difference is, in Skyrim the Imperials are the non-racist faction which improves the average quality of life under them, and is the only hope against the Thalmor.
They're the obvious good faction.
The Legion is pretty much the exact opposite.

Oh, i agree but i didn't know that when i joined the imperials. From the first few minutes of the game all i could tell about the war was that it was Romans vs Vikings. So i went with the Romans. After traveling to both Windhelm and Solitute it became clear i made the right choice.

 

[GabeZhul]

snip from the first page

*slow clap*

Great post, I must say. And yes, I mostly agree, except your point about the slaves. Although we only see military slaves in the game, they are wretched, underfed, tortured people who are worked to death. Sure, you can argue that it was the same with the Romans as well, they had mine-slaves and agricultural slaves as well who had very short life-expectancies, but unlike the Romans, the Legion doesn't actually appear to have any other kinds of slaves.
Remember, as you have stated yourself, the Legion is not exactly the Roman Empire, they don't have the sophisticated system of citizenship. They are more like Gengis Khan's horde that expands quickly and is all about conquest and plunder. Such a society has no use for trained slaves and tutors/helpers/house servants.

Also, not having raiders in Arizona is not a testament of the Legion creating order, it's just a side effect. There are no raiders because the killed and/or absorbed all the raiders while they conquered. The raiders still there, they are just called Caesar's Legion now.

Aside of these points, I really enjoyed your point of view. It is really refreshing to read something that shows you something from a different angle.

 

[Kingjackl]

The only good reasons I can think of is that they give you a legitimate excuse to wipe out the Brotherhood of Steel (as if you needed one) and you don't have to fight Lanius at the end. In terms of outcomes or ideology, I'm NCR first, House second, Yes Man third and Legion aren't even in the same ballpark.

Also regarding the companion thing, not only is Boone anti-Legion, but simply having him as a party member will render every one of them hostile regardless of previous affiliation. Considering how useful Boone is if you get him early on, it makes even more sense that players would be disinclined toward the Legion.

 

[DRTJR]

because why not preform brain surgery when you have a medice of 15 and a luck of 10. then come back with Boone.

 

[Mycroft Holmes]

They are more like Gengis Khan's horde that expands quickly and is all about conquest and plunder. Such a society has no use for trained slaves and tutors/helpers/house servants.

Technically Chinggis outlawed slavery. Also Mongolians never even developed a word for 'slave,' they just use a word for prisoner instead. Later on Kublai brought back a form of debt slavery, like indentured servitude, under the Yuan Dynasty. In which peasants could pay off their debts to Kublai by agreeing to serve him for free(or more often have their children do it.)

Also the expansion of the original Mongolian Empire was over the course of 100 years. And a long time after that under the various splinter factions like the Golden Horde and the Yuan Dynasty. I'm not sure I'd call that quick. In fact the Mongolians were known for their patience in battle, preferring to harass indirectly for months if not years before fighting directly. They weren't overly obsessed with plunder either, and would pretty much ditch their loot right away if it was proving burdensome at all.

They also had a pretty big use for those "tutors/helpers/house servants." While the horde would for the most part continue along after a few years waiting to replenish numbers and secure their new lands, they would still leave garrison forces as well as Mongolian magistrates and leaders. They were very interested both in learning as well as being able to effectively govern. As such the Mongolian leadership would often utilize scholars to teach them the new languages of conquered peoples.

They were also very interested in the knowledge their conquered people had and they would often use or recruit conquered engineers and other such scientists to their causes. The recurve bows that signaled the true dawning of their power were created by the Chinese. They were masters of siege warfare using, often Chinese engineers, to construct or teach their engineers in the construction of siege weapons. Despite being plains people they also upon conquering China quickly constructed fleets and became able seamen(which is where Japan's Divine Winds came into play.) I mean this is the empire that popularized the concept of paper currency. I would hardly say they were simply conquerors and plunderers.

They really weren't much like FNV Caesar's Legion; beyond the fact that they originally came from a nomadic force of warriors.

Also, not having raiders in Arizona is not a testament of the Legion creating order, it's just a side effect. There are no raiders because the killed and/or absorbed all the raiders while they conquered. The raiders still there, they are just called Caesar's Legion now.

Sure, but they are also no longer actually raiding. Or at least they are no longer raiding Arizona. Also I wouldn't say it was a side effect. It was definitely part of Caesar's intentions.

 

[kingthrall]

I joined Ceasars legion the 2nd playthough (yesman first). I think it was kind of fun to join Ceasars legion and go around smashing NCR. It seems strange that a lot of players think that keeping onto the old modern societal traditions after nuke fire ect is some sort of "good guy" thing.
I remember watching the film the postman and thinking the same thing about how the bad guys got so offended at the very idea of America causing all the war in the first place, when there is opportunity to shape the world as they see fit. Even if they don't use technology its not like people dont know how to enjoy building a fire and toasting meat on a stick?


Video for reference to what I am talking about. Good film by the way if you have not watched it.

 

[xplosive59]

The Legion has essentially a "drastic times need drastic measures" mentality and I think they are the only group that would actually get shit done in rejuvinating the wasteland. It is essentially would you support a Lawful Evil but powerful and secure Autocracy led by the Caesars Legion or a Chaotic Good and corrupt democracy from the NCR that it really comes down to in the end.

 

[Odbarc]

I think the three choices were supposed to be;

>Freedom minus security (Good)
>Security minus freedom (Good?)
>Ruin everything. (Bad!)

Sometimes, especially me, I like to cause havoc, chaos, and an overall arching 'evil' playstyle. Killing innocent people, doing things which boon humanity, ensure that the poverty stricken must reward me more so they have less. Giving the bad guys control is just one of those choices you want to have in a game like this, even if you almost never want to choose it.

Otherwise you're simply stuck with the obvious choice and then you'd say "Why option B?" and you'd be stuck in a strict linear path.

Frankly, I'd have wanted a "I want to monopolize the thing for myself and become a tyrant over the land!" option.

 

[johntheescapist]

The reason the tunnelers are different is because they can easily kill all of the animals you previously mentioned, they breed at extremely fast rates compared to all others, and they specificly hunt down humans unlike deathclaws which tend to stay on the fringes. The only way the NCR could hold the Mojave is if they use House's robot army after he died. The Legion being made up of only men would stand no chance of holding the Mojave.

 

[zf6hellion]

I think you're absolutely right. I love that New Vegas tried to move away from Fallout 3's morality system, but it shot itself in the foot by making the Legion objectively morally reprehensible, as well as a highly impractical faction.

You basically covered the two major problems with the Legion. Their "no tech" mentality is really just stupid, and doesn't reflect the Roman attitudes that they are trying to emulate. Really, a militaristic hierarchy like theirs, based on keeping order through conquest, should value the military power and practical day-to-day benefit of technology.

This also had me really confused, as I remember reading that the Romans weren't all that amazing themselves in a fight, they just happened to be really damn good at taking their enemies gear an' adapting to it. Where as the Legion are handicapping themselves with only the elite of the elite using anything major (Which amounts to a couple of crappy rifles and sub machine guns and a power fist).

 

[12344127]

I think you're absolutely right. I love that New Vegas tried to move away from Fallout 3's morality system, but it shot itself in the foot by making the Legion objectively morally reprehensible, as well as a highly impractical faction.

You basically covered the two major problems with the Legion. Their "no tech" mentality is really just stupid, and doesn't reflect the Roman attitudes that they are trying to emulate. Really, a militaristic hierarchy like theirs, based on keeping order through conquest, should value the military power and practical day-to-day benefit of technology.

This also had me really confused, as I remember reading that the Romans weren't all that amazing themselves in a fight, they just happened to be really damn good at taking their enemies gear an' adapting to it. Where as the Legion are handicapping themselves with only the elite of the elite using anything major (Which amounts to a couple of crappy rifles and sub machine guns and a power fist).

What made the Romans good in war was there sense of order and tactics. The idea of having a legion system with Centurions in each cohort made it so that everything was in precise order and it became a machine. The Romans didn't have that much more technology than say the Carthaginians in the First/Second Punic Wars but it was there tactics and strong infrastructure that led them to victory (although the second time was almost a really big failure because of elephants but I digress). What made the Legion upsetting to me was that they almost seemed like they made a mockery of everything Rome stood for. Rome stood for order, stability and power. The Legion on the other hand was out to destroy and plunder and Rome really didn't do that as much. Their crucifixions most of the time were to send other populations a message not to rebel. After the Spartacus rebellion for instance the rebelling slaves were crucified but not out of some sick twisted punishment it was all a message. Caesars Legion modeled themselves after Rome even naming themselves and their army members after the actual military ranks but they never showed any semblance of order or tactics other than rush in and crush the enemy.