New York Teacher Tells Kids There Is No Santa Claus
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This thread is making my Cynical-Assholometer go off the charts! I've never seen readings this high, save for a few particularly brutal religious flame wars!
OT: I still believe in Santa. Not as a fat man who breaks into peoples houses and gives presents to children, of course not, but more as a symbol. A symbol of all the warm and lovely feelings that come from spending Christmas time with the people you love. Those feelings manifested into a metaphorical being are Santa Claus.
Saying there's no such thing as Santa Claus is like saying there's no such thing as love.
Besides, my parents never told me there was no Santa (the actual fat guy). I just figured it out on my own when I came of age, and everyone does. It's a lot less crushing on a childs spirit to let them figure it out on their own rather than grinding their dreams against the pavement saying "THERE IS NO SANTA".
OT: I still believe in Santa. Not as a fat man who breaks into peoples houses and gives presents to children, of course not, but more as a symbol. A symbol of all the warm and lovely feelings that come from spending Christmas time with the people you love. Those feelings manifested into a metaphorical being are Santa Claus.
Saying there's no such thing as Santa Claus is like saying there's no such thing as love.
Besides, my parents never told me there was no Santa (the actual fat guy). I just figured it out on my own when I came of age, and everyone does. It's a lot less crushing on a childs spirit to let them figure it out on their own rather than grinding their dreams against the pavement saying "THERE IS NO SANTA".
This seems like a needlessly dick move. A smarter teacher could have spun a better lie to satisfy the kids' curiosity.
Kids need to believe the little lies so they can be better prepared to believe the big ones.
Kids need to believe the little lies so they can be better prepared to believe the big ones.
Last time I checked, one can still enjoy a story even when it isn't true. Its called fiction. I guess your imagination must not be as strong as you take it to be if you think you need to literally believe in some crap to enjoy it.PanYue said:
Also, I find your view point disgustingly cynical. You're implying that this world is such a dumpster fire that the only way people could possibly have a good time in it is through the guise of illusion when they're too young to know any better. I think you're wrong. The world is beautiful and fascinating all on its own without needing to believe in some arbitrary fatass who will give you presents if you behave yourself. Frankly, I don't even think the kids really care so long as they get presents.
/rant concluded/
I don't see a problem with a teacher telling kids that their parents are lying to them.
Although, realizing that many adults are full of shit gave me a running start in my current political and social views. And religious views.
I never even really believed in Santa. I always knew it was my parents, and got in arguments with other kids about it. I even noticed the impossibility in movies of a Santa existing but adults believing he didn't, yet him still delivering presents somehow. Much like I never even really believed in a god. Finding out that my parents were misleading me about Santa just reinforced my views about religion and the Tooth Fairy.
Although, realizing that many adults are full of shit gave me a running start in my current political and social views. And religious views.
I never even really believed in Santa. I always knew it was my parents, and got in arguments with other kids about it. I even noticed the impossibility in movies of a Santa existing but adults believing he didn't, yet him still delivering presents somehow. Much like I never even really believed in a god. Finding out that my parents were misleading me about Santa just reinforced my views about religion and the Tooth Fairy.
Rodrigo Girao said:Kudos to the teacher for giving kids the TRUTH. Also, obligatory C&H:
God bless C&H!
A real Christian would tell the truth and not reinforce the support of False Idols coming on the day of his birth.Coldster said:
Santa "Clause"? Since when did Santa become a caveat?
Anyway, enough smartarsery! This is not an argument that will be won easily. On one hand, wether you believe in the true nature of Christmas or not, what's so bad about pretending that Santa exists for a few years? Compared to some stuff (*cough*religion*cough*) that people believe, Santa really is quite harmless and, like it or not, is an inextricable part of Christmas.
Wether jolly old St. Nicholas was the product of a fairy story or Coca-Cola, who cares? I generally don't like kids but even a cynic like me can't fail to be moved when kids get all excited about Santa coming.
Hell I used to leave beer out for him, figuring that if he's going to all this trouble then he was damn-well getting a bevvy in return! While I didn't realise it then, my Dad was actually making me more socially responsible because nobody likes the tight-git who never gets the drinks in!
Santa wont send you to hell if you don't believe in him and nor do you see depictions of Santa nailed to a cross and yet that shit gets rammed down kids throats every day of the year but the last time I checked, nobody went to war over Santa Claus!!!
While I am massively against religion, I celebrate Christmas because I always have done. Barely anyone gives a toss about the "Christ" part anymore and why should they when it was plagarised from pagans anyway? If the Christies can nick it, so can I! The part I concentrate on is the "season of peace and goodwill to all men" because anything that stops people being dickheads, even if just for a day, is to be lauded.
Speaking of the religion aspect, I will admit that I find the story of the baby Jesus being born in a manger with the three wise men / kings, the bright star and all that very charming. But it's just a story and yet it gets held up as divine truth, force-fed to kids (catch 'em young!) and doesn't it make them grow up to be well-balanced individuals?
Telling kids Santa doesn't exist might be truthful and, technically within the expectations that the teachers are all honest, but come on...really? Is it THAT bad to lets kids believe in Santa?
They believe and then they grow out of it and yet they never sue their parents or hate them for it! When I was a child, I was told that if I was bad then nasty Charley Wagger (who allegedly lived in my grandma's airing cupboard) would come and get me. Of course now I know it was all just make-believe and me and my cousins all laugh about it now and we all tell their kids the same thing.
We also tell their kids Santa is coming soon and help them write their lists, suggest what beer he might like and make sure there's enough cookies and carrots in stock.
Never mind what he may or may not represent, Santa is one of few make-believe figures who is harmless but also important because childhood innocence is neccessary and, I think, beneficial.
Finally - I still can't listen to the song "The Little Boy Santa Forgot" without blubbing like a girl!
Anyway, I need to get my letter written!
"Dear Santa...I'm afraid I've been a bad boy this year...BUT IT WAS WORTH IT!!! ;-) "
Merry Christmas, everybody!
Wardy
Anyway, enough smartarsery! This is not an argument that will be won easily. On one hand, wether you believe in the true nature of Christmas or not, what's so bad about pretending that Santa exists for a few years? Compared to some stuff (*cough*religion*cough*) that people believe, Santa really is quite harmless and, like it or not, is an inextricable part of Christmas.
Wether jolly old St. Nicholas was the product of a fairy story or Coca-Cola, who cares? I generally don't like kids but even a cynic like me can't fail to be moved when kids get all excited about Santa coming.
Hell I used to leave beer out for him, figuring that if he's going to all this trouble then he was damn-well getting a bevvy in return! While I didn't realise it then, my Dad was actually making me more socially responsible because nobody likes the tight-git who never gets the drinks in!
Santa wont send you to hell if you don't believe in him and nor do you see depictions of Santa nailed to a cross and yet that shit gets rammed down kids throats every day of the year but the last time I checked, nobody went to war over Santa Claus!!!
While I am massively against religion, I celebrate Christmas because I always have done. Barely anyone gives a toss about the "Christ" part anymore and why should they when it was plagarised from pagans anyway? If the Christies can nick it, so can I! The part I concentrate on is the "season of peace and goodwill to all men" because anything that stops people being dickheads, even if just for a day, is to be lauded.
Speaking of the religion aspect, I will admit that I find the story of the baby Jesus being born in a manger with the three wise men / kings, the bright star and all that very charming. But it's just a story and yet it gets held up as divine truth, force-fed to kids (catch 'em young!) and doesn't it make them grow up to be well-balanced individuals?
Telling kids Santa doesn't exist might be truthful and, technically within the expectations that the teachers are all honest, but come on...really? Is it THAT bad to lets kids believe in Santa?
They believe and then they grow out of it and yet they never sue their parents or hate them for it! When I was a child, I was told that if I was bad then nasty Charley Wagger (who allegedly lived in my grandma's airing cupboard) would come and get me. Of course now I know it was all just make-believe and me and my cousins all laugh about it now and we all tell their kids the same thing.
We also tell their kids Santa is coming soon and help them write their lists, suggest what beer he might like and make sure there's enough cookies and carrots in stock.
Never mind what he may or may not represent, Santa is one of few make-believe figures who is harmless but also important because childhood innocence is neccessary and, I think, beneficial.
Finally - I still can't listen to the song "The Little Boy Santa Forgot" without blubbing like a girl!
Anyway, I need to get my letter written!
"Dear Santa...I'm afraid I've been a bad boy this year...BUT IT WAS WORTH IT!!! ;-) "
Merry Christmas, everybody!
Wardy
I don't have children, but I don't like the idea of lying to them. But, if everyone is repeating the same lie, how can you tell them the truth?
I don't think the teacher deserves that fate...The parents (as always) are being way too overprotective.
I really don't have much of an opinion on whether kids should/shouldn't believe in Santa Claus. I for one always knew he was fake; but it was quite amusing to see my parents go out of their way to make believe in him - I just went along with it.
As an aside, wasn't Santa Claus based on a real person? I do remember a story (not sure if true) about a man who gave children presents in celebration of Christmas - I believe he started the tradition.
Also, please stop arguing over whether or not Christmas was based off the Pagan holiday, I don't think that was part of the question...
I really don't have much of an opinion on whether kids should/shouldn't believe in Santa Claus. I for one always knew he was fake; but it was quite amusing to see my parents go out of their way to make believe in him - I just went along with it.
As an aside, wasn't Santa Claus based on a real person? I do remember a story (not sure if true) about a man who gave children presents in celebration of Christmas - I believe he started the tradition.
Also, please stop arguing over whether or not Christmas was based off the Pagan holiday, I don't think that was part of the question...
Ugh. Fox News. I knew they were involved.
Santa Claus was warped into a Christian one as part of the Church's effort to do away with the pagan celebration of the Winter Solstice, deciding that Jesus was born on December 25th, and the widespread belief in Santa Claus didn't pick up until Coca Cola started using him as a mascot.
It's all friggin' marketing. Teach your kids to give and share, don't threaten them with coal for not submitting to the will of a made up saint.
I'm so sick of this "War on Christmas" bullshit. You know if he were around Jesus would be applauding the way a celebration of giving has spread out to encompass so many cultures in so many parts of the world. Christmas should be about reaching out to one another, and if you're a truly spiritual person you understand, accent, and are happy for the fact that such a concept has outgrown its questionable, Christian-centric origins.
Please. This isn't innocence, it's naivety, and you're exploiting it to make a kid behave.
Santa Claus was warped into a Christian one as part of the Church's effort to do away with the pagan celebration of the Winter Solstice, deciding that Jesus was born on December 25th, and the widespread belief in Santa Claus didn't pick up until Coca Cola started using him as a mascot.
It's all friggin' marketing. Teach your kids to give and share, don't threaten them with coal for not submitting to the will of a made up saint.
I'm so sick of this "War on Christmas" bullshit. You know if he were around Jesus would be applauding the way a celebration of giving has spread out to encompass so many cultures in so many parts of the world. Christmas should be about reaching out to one another, and if you're a truly spiritual person you understand, accent, and are happy for the fact that such a concept has outgrown its questionable, Christian-centric origins.
I grew up celebrating Christmas as a commercial holiday. I still celebrate it as one. I was never told that Santa was a real person, but I believed in him for what he is. A symbol of something greater than myself.
The legend of Santa comes from real events. Do I want my kids to feel a sense of christmas magic around the holidays? Absolutely. Do I want them to believe that Santa is the one bringing them presents? Probably not. Do I want them to learn such a thing from an elementary school teacher?
Hell no. That's like the guy at McDonalds teaching my kids about politics. It's none of their business.
I know this sounds cliche, but Santa is real in the hearts and minds of us all. You don't have to believe he's a real physical person to get some sort of meaning out of it.
It's hypocritical and annoying when apparently no matter what the situation is, we can just blame the parents
"What? You got upset when someone told your kid something that wasn't any of their business in the first place? Quit being so over-protective and let your kid learn about life!"
"What? Your kid hurt his ankle trying to skateboard down the stairs because The Simpson's did it? Try being a little protective of your kids, why don't ya!?"
The legend of Santa comes from real events. Do I want my kids to feel a sense of christmas magic around the holidays? Absolutely. Do I want them to believe that Santa is the one bringing them presents? Probably not. Do I want them to learn such a thing from an elementary school teacher?
Hell no. That's like the guy at McDonalds teaching my kids about politics. It's none of their business.
I know this sounds cliche, but Santa is real in the hearts and minds of us all. You don't have to believe he's a real physical person to get some sort of meaning out of it.
And yet (note: this is not directly aimed at you, personally) whenever some kid imitates something they saw on TV or in a video game, people blame the parents for not caring enough.DrunkPickle said:
It's hypocritical and annoying when apparently no matter what the situation is, we can just blame the parents
"What? You got upset when someone told your kid something that wasn't any of their business in the first place? Quit being so over-protective and let your kid learn about life!"
"What? Your kid hurt his ankle trying to skateboard down the stairs because The Simpson's did it? Try being a little protective of your kids, why don't ya!?"
Eh, I'd prefer the week-long Winter Solstice festival or Saturnalia full of drinking, debauchery, feasting, and more drinking. And gift giving!Jegsimmons said:
You're joking, right?13thforswarn said:
Holidays were celebrated around the Winter Solstice *long* before the Christians decided to steal the day and claim their Savior was born on it. Several other religion have, and have had for a very long time, holidays in this time frame.
Further, if you actually look into the facts, Jesus wasn't actually born in December.
Lastly, keep your religion to yourself. The only person who should be teaching kids about any belief in any deities is their parents. I know that if my kid came home and started telling me their teacher was talking to them about God, I'd be raising some hell.
Well there is a lot of different "Christian" religions out there so I'm just going to say that most people I know have parents that believe in Christian based religions and they basically told they're kids (including me) when we asked, not just: "Santa doesn't exist" right from the start. Even I, not being religious, know that doing that is NOT the Christian way. That is all.chadachada123 said:
EDIT: Fixed.
I don't use words to sound like a "pseudo-intellect" I use them because they're the words that came to mind at the time. I use the word proselytize because it is more appropriate than convert because it implies that I have a religion to be converted from, or save because I have nothing to be saved from.The Unworthy Gentleman said:
OT: She shouldn't be made to tell the kids she was wrong, because that would require her to lie to them. However, she does owe the parents an apology. It wasn't her place, but really nothing that they need to get too worked up over. As many have said, these kids are right at that age anyway.