Nintendo and their addiction to failure.

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Rangaman

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First of all, I apologize for a certain thread I posted several months ago that was quite uninformed (if you have to ask, you don't need to know about it).

Now, on to the next order of business...Nintendo and their addiction to failure.

Okay, let me get the obvious out of the way: I am thoroughly aware Nintendo are still making money. In the last quarter, they made a larger profit than Sony, if memory serves me correctly. My problem isn't with that.

My problem is that they, as a company, seem to be doing everything in their power to alienate any potential audience they have and are more interesting in pretending that they are still the dominant force in the industry.

So where did this shitstorm start? Surprisingly enough, the NES. The NES was the dominant system of the day. It destroyed the competition so completely that any chance Atari had of returning triumphantly to the world of consoles went the way of the dinosaurs and the only way that SEGA bounced back was by having an aggressive marketing campaign.

But it created this idea that Nintendo, as the dominant force in the industry, could get away with anything they wanted. That idea became institutionalized, and shit began to hit the fan. Games had to be NES exclusive for two years. No blood anywhere. The "three games per year" rule. But then the SEGA Mega Drive (or Genesis if your country is dumb) was released and suddenly they didn't have any market dominance.

Yet they still persisted in this delusion that they had market dominance, and this led to anti-consumer behavior and failure. They kept the NES around for a good two years in the Americas and Europe, even though there was no chance of it competing with the Mega Drive/Genesis. They assumed everyone would buy the Virtual Boy, simply because it was Nintendo-branded. They stuck with cartridges because they assumed no-one would jump to the cheaper (both to develop for and to buy) PlayStation. Then, five years later, they pulled the same stunt with the GameCube. "What to people put in DVD trays besides games?", they said. "People will never adopt online gaming", they snickered.

In many ways, it's similar to what's currently happening at Apple. They had one product that was accidentally a massive success, now they believe they can do anything.

The difference here comes in the small rectangular shape that is the Wii and the even smaller and more rectangular DS. They were Nintendo's first massive success since the original Game Boy. To give you an idea, for every Wii U, there are roughly 2 GameCubes, 3 N64s, 4 SNESes, 8 NESes, 8 Game Boys, 9 Wiis and 11 DSes. They were such a massive successes. Nintendo is back, they were right all along!

Except they weren't. For, like all new technologies, the Wii was a fad. Soon enough, everyone had moved on to mobile, the 360 and the PS3. But Nintendo had a plan. The Wii's biggest selling point was the motion controller, the DS's the touchscreen. Gimmicks were obviously the way forward. Except again they weren't.

That's where we are today. The 3DS has been a success in Japan, but has been outshined by smartphones everywhere else. The Wii U is so utterly dead that not even the new Zelda has provoked the response Nintendo were hoping for.

As well as this they are hiding their new product for fears of 'copying'. But the idea that someone could make blueprint, prototype and produce a copy in under six months is, quite frankly, ridiculous.

The problem here is that Nintendo still have this mindset that they are on top of the world, even though they really aren't. They may have outdone Sony's profits in the last quarter but that's only because Sony is determined to keep their failing mobile business afloat.

Nintendo might be making money for the time being, but they are far behind the competition. The 3DS is a mobile gaming machine...and nothing more. Against the Vita it has the edge, it's cheaper and has better games. Against mobile? No chance. I love Majora's Mask 3D, but it's not going to make the 3DS a viable mobile competitor. In the home console business, they've failed. Home consoles are almost as much of a hardcore gaming platform as PCs these days (not in hardware, but in audience and content). The Wii U and it's cutesy Mario games might please fans, but it simply won't sell for $60.

Put bluntly, Nintendo has this delusion that they are on top of the world, and that their games will always sell and that the public loves nothing more than gimmicks. That's not going to work Nintendo. Mainstream consumers have shown they would rather play the flashy-est games than have a giant fat touchscreen. Your fans are tired of the fact that you persistently dick them over with crappy sequels to established franchises.

Some may believe that the NX will save Nintendo. But if the rumor mill is proven right, they've done the same thing all over again. A handheld with detachable controllers? Just...no.

What's particularly annoying is that Nintendo's two biggest franchises, Mario and Pokemon, don't even feature astronomical budgets and don't require massive development teams either, so they could be made on the cheap and sold digitally. That's a pile of money right there to fund Nintendo's pursuits. But no. "The captain never abandons his ship" seems to be the office mantra.

If they wanted to fix this, the next system would be about the games. It would feature less anti-consumer exclusivity. It wouldn't try to ship 100 2D Mario levels as a AAA title. But at the current rate it seems that Nintendo would prefer to live in it's own little world, unaware of the fact that they are losing the Console Crusades.

TL;DR, Nintendo's gimmicky consoles and anti-consumer practices are hurting them more than the competition ever will.

Anyway, that's my two cents. I apologize for any grammatical errors that may have come up.
 

Saelune

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This would be easier to say if they would say what the NX is. Ignoring that, the Wii U is the only console of this generation that is a gaming console first. Infact, they have since removed most non-gaming features from the Wii U.

Their "gimmicky consoles" are called attempted innovation. It doesnt always pan out, but they actually put faith in these weird ideas. I dont see Sony or Microsoft doing that.

People like to over generalize and under-appreciate when it comes to Nintendo. I dont condone everything they do (How they are handling the NX, and how they treat LPers), but most critics of Nintendo seem to not know what they are even talking about most of the time that I find it hard to take any of it seriously.

People want Nintendo to be Sony and Microsoft...but fuck them. I think Nintendo is fine being Nintendo. Hell, my biggest worry about the NX is that it will be Nintendo trying to not be Nintendo.

I think they could improve in alot of areas in alot of ways, but everyone always doomsays when it comes to criticizing Nintendo and act like Sony and Microsoft dont have TONS of ways to fix their shit too. Id love to have a real discussion on this, but its usually brought up by people who have no real interest in what Nintendo does right to properly discuss what Nintendo does wrong.
 

Casual Shinji

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Saelune said:
This would be easier to say if they would say what the NX is. Ignoring that, the Wii U is the only console of this generation that is a gaming console first. Infact, they have since removed most non-gaming features from the Wii U.
How are the PS4 and the Xbone not gaming consoles first? I doubt anyone who bought one of these systems thought 'Oh man, I can't wait to hook this up and go on youtube/watch movies, and then play videogames.' I'm sure their first thought was about wanting to play the newest games.

OT: Nintendo is stubborn in their goal to keep in iron grip on their brand and their IPs. Which is commendable, and makes sure they retain that loveable Nintendo identity. But it also breeds staleness, and cuts them off from whatever advances the rest of the world is making. Didn't they say they had a real hard time with high definition graphics once they started on the Wii-U? I mean, that was at the tale-end of the 7th generation; you'd think they would've gathered some information on it through their two biggest competitors. But apparently not, because Nintendo lives in a bubble.
 

Bellvedere

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Ok, I?ll bite. I?m confused about why people care? You say the consoles are gimmicky, the games are stale, they?re more irrelevent to the game industry than ever and they don?t communicate with or understand the market.

So that should make them the easiest company to ignore? Those criticisms don?t make Nintendo immoral or infuriating, it makes them boring, and forgettable.

But the Nintendo hate threads seem strangely popular. Is it easy to criticise because the discussion is so familiar and repeated? Is it to rile up the NDF? Feels good to make a thread that might get a couple pages? Maybe if you wanted something to happen there?d be some discussion value here, but since everything about the company is a write off, I?m guessing not. So, where are we supposed to go with this?
 

stroopwafel

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Nintendo still releases some good stuff on occasion(A Link between Worlds a few years ago was excellent) but fact of the matter is that there is very little incentive for them to change their ways. Nintendo has enormous cash reserves that the 'failure' of the WiiU didn't even put a dent in and their antiquated IPs generate enough revenue through royalties and commercial exploitation that there is really no reason for Nintendo to innovate or try their best at making great games. In other words they have become complacent with the status quo which is something they have in common with other (former) gaming companies that started small and ended up making a fortune(ie Konami, Activision, EA etc.) Really they have become victims of their own succes in a way and the only reason for them to change would be a financial crisis of some kind(not likely).
 

Johnny Novgorod

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Saelune said:
The Wii U is the only console of this generation that is a gaming console first.
I never got this mantra of "Nintendo makes real consoles". As if I've been playing fake games this entire time.
 

Arina Love

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Pretty much. But hey, fuck me right, i'm an idiot that bought WiiU for just 3 games (with xenoblade x being the main reason). I did have fun with them though but damn WiiU sucks hard. But what i dread the most is that eventually Monolith Soft will announce their new Xeno game on NX and i gonna run to a store to buy NX >.> being Monolith Soft's fan and not Nintendo fan is hard.
 

bluegate

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Johnny Novgorod said:
Saelune said:
The Wii U is the only console of this generation that is a gaming console first.
I never got this mantra of "Nintendo makes real consoles". As if I've been playing fake games this entire time.
Seems like a good excuse to justify the lack of certain functionalities, a "whatever helps you sleep at night" sort of thing.

"I just pulled off some sweet move in X game, doesn't matter that I can't share it or back up video footage of it because this console is made for Games, yes, Games... It is made for Games...".
 

Johnny Novgorod

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Cold Shiny said:
Man, Nintendo's really been the whipping boy on this site for the last few weeks lol.
It's not a boy and it's not your friend, it's one of the largest multinational consumer electronics & software companies in the world, about as underdog as Coca Cola is to soft drinks, and they can endure every bit of criticism they're going to ignore anyway.
 

Saelune

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bluegate said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
Saelune said:
The Wii U is the only console of this generation that is a gaming console first.
I never got this mantra of "Nintendo makes real consoles". As if I've been playing fake games this entire time.
Seems like a good excuse to justify the lack of certain functionalities, a "whatever helps you sleep at night" sort of thing.

"I just pulled off some sweet move in X game, doesn't matter that I can't share it or back up video footage of it because this console is made for Games, yes, Games... It is made for Games...".
Cause I really need that fitness program on the Xbox One or focus on movie experiences.

But like I said, no one wants to have a real discussion on Nintendo, so why should I?
 

Silvanus

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Johnny Novgorod said:
It's not a boy and it's not your friend, it's one of the largest multinational consumer electronics & software companies in the world, about as underdog as Coca Cola is to soft drinks, and they can endure every bit of criticism they're going to ignore anyway.
Somebody should tell their critics that; not sure anybody would accuse Coca Cola of having an "addiction to failure".
 

Fox12

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bluegate said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
Saelune said:
The Wii U is the only console of this generation that is a gaming console first.
I never got this mantra of "Nintendo makes real consoles". As if I've been playing fake games this entire time.
Seems like a good excuse to justify the lack of certain functionalities, a "whatever helps you sleep at night" sort of thing.

"I just pulled off some sweet move in X game, doesn't matter that I can't share it or back up video footage of it because this console is made for Games, yes, Games... It is made for Games...".
"I can't watch movies, record video, or listen to music, because this is a gaming console first." I have to hand it to people, I've never seen someone tout a products lack of features as a positive. Gaming first shouldn't mean gaming only.

I can sort of see their point with the Xbone, when they actually did advertise their other features more then the gaming, but otherwise it seems like a hollow argument.
 

Saelune

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Fox12 said:
bluegate said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
Saelune said:
The Wii U is the only console of this generation that is a gaming console first.
I never got this mantra of "Nintendo makes real consoles". As if I've been playing fake games this entire time.
Seems like a good excuse to justify the lack of certain functionalities, a "whatever helps you sleep at night" sort of thing.

"I just pulled off some sweet move in X game, doesn't matter that I can't share it or back up video footage of it because this console is made for Games, yes, Games... It is made for Games...".
"I can't watch movies, record video, or listen to music, because this is a gaming console first." I have to hand it to people, I've never seen someone tout a products lack of features as a positive. Gaming first shouldn't mean gaming only.

I can sort of see their point with the Xbone, when they actually did advertise their other features more then the gaming, but otherwise it seems like a hollow argument.
It matters when you are trying to buy a gaming console for gaming. Hell, if you're buying -anything- for a specific purpose, and all it seems to have is everything but that, yeah, it matters and makes sense.
 

Fox12

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Saelune said:
Fox12 said:
bluegate said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
Saelune said:
The Wii U is the only console of this generation that is a gaming console first.
I never got this mantra of "Nintendo makes real consoles". As if I've been playing fake games this entire time.
Seems like a good excuse to justify the lack of certain functionalities, a "whatever helps you sleep at night" sort of thing.

"I just pulled off some sweet move in X game, doesn't matter that I can't share it or back up video footage of it because this console is made for Games, yes, Games... It is made for Games...".
"I can't watch movies, record video, or listen to music, because this is a gaming console first." I have to hand it to people, I've never seen someone tout a products lack of features as a positive. Gaming first shouldn't mean gaming only.

I can sort of see their point with the Xbone, when they actually did advertise their other features more then the gaming, but otherwise it seems like a hollow argument.
It matters when you are trying to buy a gaming console for gaming. Hell, if you're buying -anything- for a specific purpose, and all it seems to have is everything but that, yeah, it matters and makes sense.
I suppose, but I haven't seen that problem with either Playstation or PC. That used to be an issue with the Xbox, but now they've "fixed" it. I don't see a single game console on the market that doesn't put gaming first. I've just noticed a few that quietly let you watch movies and listen to music on the side.
 

Saelune

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Fox12 said:
Saelune said:
Fox12 said:
bluegate said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
Saelune said:
The Wii U is the only console of this generation that is a gaming console first.
I never got this mantra of "Nintendo makes real consoles". As if I've been playing fake games this entire time.
Seems like a good excuse to justify the lack of certain functionalities, a "whatever helps you sleep at night" sort of thing.

"I just pulled off some sweet move in X game, doesn't matter that I can't share it or back up video footage of it because this console is made for Games, yes, Games... It is made for Games...".
"I can't watch movies, record video, or listen to music, because this is a gaming console first." I have to hand it to people, I've never seen someone tout a products lack of features as a positive. Gaming first shouldn't mean gaming only.

I can sort of see their point with the Xbone, when they actually did advertise their other features more then the gaming, but otherwise it seems like a hollow argument.
It matters when you are trying to buy a gaming console for gaming. Hell, if you're buying -anything- for a specific purpose, and all it seems to have is everything but that, yeah, it matters and makes sense.
I suppose, but I haven't seen that problem with either Playstation or PC. That used to be an issue with the Xbox, but now they've "fixed" it. I don't see a single game console on the market that doesn't put gaming first. I've just noticed a few that quietly let you watch movies and listen to music on the side.
I would add its not my defining argument. But its what has become the focus against my much larger post. Sony and Microsoft certainly have put less focus on turning their consoles into non-gaming entertainment systems, and instead into shitty PCs, which is more of my current criticism against them in favor of Nintendo. Either way, anyone who wants Nintendo to be more like Sony or Microsoft I dont think understands what is good about Nintendo.
 

CaitSeith

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Rangaman said:
The 3DS has been a success in Japan, but has been outshined by smartphones everywhere else.
There are two little problems with this argument. First it assumes that the people who play in smartphones is the same audience that would play in a 3DS if smartphone games didn't exist. And second, it is false. Smartphones outshine the 3DS in Japan too. Why do you think Nintendo is releasing a Super Mario running game in iOS?
 

Johnny Novgorod

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Silvanus said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
It's not a boy and it's not your friend, it's one of the largest multinational consumer electronics & software companies in the world, about as underdog as Coca Cola is to soft drinks, and they can endure every bit of criticism they're going to ignore anyway.
Somebody should tell their critics that; not sure anybody would accuse Coca Cola of having an "addiction to failure".
The point is that Nintendo's historical market hegemony is on par with Coca Cola's (I guess I go to that analogy because the Nintendo vs. SEGA "console wars" parallel the Coke vs. Pepsi "cola wars", down to the color-coding), and that to think of them as underdogs in desperate need of coddling would be out of ignorance or denial.
Saelune said:
It matters when you are trying to buy a gaming console for gaming. Hell, if you're buying -anything- for a specific purpose, and all it seems to have is everything but that, yeah, it matters and makes sense.
The only thing that ever matters to me (and you, and I think most people) is what are the games I can play on it.