Nintendo and their addiction to failure.

[Saelune]

It's not a boy and it's not your friend, it's one of the largest multinational consumer electronics & software companies in the world, about as underdog as Coca Cola is to soft drinks, and they can endure every bit of criticism they're going to ignore anyway.

Somebody should tell their critics that; not sure anybody would accuse Coca Cola of having an "addiction to failure".

The point is that Nintendo's historical market hegemony is on par with Coca Cola's (I guess I go to that analogy because the Nintendo vs. SEGA "console wars" parallel the Coke vs. Pepsi "cola wars", down to the color-coding), and that to think of them as underdogs in desperate need of coddling would be out of ignorance or denial.

It matters when you are trying to buy a gaming console for gaming. Hell, if you're buying -anything- for a specific purpose, and all it seems to have is everything but that, yeah, it matters and makes sense.

The only thing that ever matters to me (and you, and I think most people) is what are the games I can play on it.

Alot of games that you cant play anywhere else, and I think thats a plus few actually appreciate. Everyone complains about lack of exclusives, while complaining there are too many, and its really hypocritical.

I think Nintendo is just fine being supported almost solely on first-party games. Now, if you want to have a better discussion, I would say that Nintendo should put more effort into that. They have TONS of IPs they dont take enough advantage of and that alot of people would like to see more of, including spin-off games. Everyone wants Pokemon Snap U and it was begging to be made, and yet no Snap U. Even if it was garbage it would make them a ton of money (though Id rather it be good).

I dont look to Nintendo for third party series. People say they need more third-party games, but no one is going to get them if they are also on Playstation or Xbox, and the people asking for this will just say "But I can just get it on Xbone" so fuck what they think.

Nintendo's main advantage is NOT being like Sony or Microsoft. You can be fine with an Xbone OR a PS4, they are mostly the same, but Id say getting a Wii U AND one of those 2 is best. I have all 3, but thats because my friends forced me to get an Xbone. Id be fine with just my Wii U and PS4. Id miss Halo (even though 5 sucked) but Id miss way more Nintendo IPs.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I would add its not my defining argument. But its what has become the focus against my much larger post. Sony and Microsoft certainly have put less focus on turning their consoles into non-gaming entertainment systems, and instead into shitty PCs, which is more of my current criticism against them in favor of Nintendo. Either way, anyone who wants Nintendo to be more like Sony or Microsoft I dont think understands what is good about Nintendo.

How is the Wii-U any less of a "shitty PC" than the PS4 and Xbone then? Because it's less graphically advanced and has less features? As far as I know it too has patches for games and firmware updates for its system. With greater graphical technology and larger worlds with more to do comes more complications. And seeing as Nintendo tends to avoid those things it's easy to see why they would have less issues in that department.

 

[Saelune]

I would add its not my defining argument. But its what has become the focus against my much larger post. Sony and Microsoft certainly have put less focus on turning their consoles into non-gaming entertainment systems, and instead into shitty PCs, which is more of my current criticism against them in favor of Nintendo. Either way, anyone who wants Nintendo to be more like Sony or Microsoft I dont think understands what is good about Nintendo.

How is the Wii-U any less of a "shitty PC" than the PS4 and Xbone then? Because it's less graphically advanced and has less features? As far as I know it too has patches for games and firmware updates for its system. With greater graphical technology and larger worlds with more to do comes more complications. And seeing as Nintendo tends to avoid those things it's easy to see why they would have less issues in that department.

My favorite part of the Wii U is when I put a game in, and Im playing it at most a couple of minutes later.

 

[Casual Shinji]

My favorite part of the Wii U is when I put a game in, and Im playing it at most a couple of minutes later.

Well yeah, and that's because it's a simpler system. And even on the PS4 install times have been reduced drastically in recent times, where a 50gig game is ready to boot up within 10 seconds. Sure, that's not including the infernal patches, but I can't remember the last time I played a game that was horribly broken due to needing a patch since the crippling save bug in The Last of Us back in 2013.

Far be it from me to say current gen consoles DON'T have issues, but for me it beats dealing with the Wii-U's extremely limited library, and putting in the elbow grease for PC gaming.

 

[Saelune]

My favorite part of the Wii U is when I put a game in, and Im playing it at most a couple of minutes later.

Well yeah, and that's because it's a simpler system. And even on the PS4 install times have been reduced drastically in recent times, where a 50gig game is ready to boot up within 10 seconds. Sure, that's not including the infernal patches, but I can't remember the last time I played a game that was horribly broken due to needing a patch since the crippling save bug in The Last of Us back in 2013.

Far be it from me to say current gen consoles DON'T have issues, but for me it beats dealing with the Wii-U's extremely limited library, and putting in the elbow grease for PC gaming.

Im mostly comparing Wii U to PS4 and Xbox One. Wii U is the only one Id say get regardless which of the other 3 you like. PC and Wii U, Xbox One and Wii U, or PS4 and Wii U, or PC, PS4 and Wii U, or PC, Xbox One and Wii U.

Wii U doesnt try to directly compete with the others and I think that is a smart move. PS4 and Xbox One directly compete, and also try to compete with PC, but no longer by being easier and cheaper, and if they go down that path, well, even I find myself hard pressed to defend modern console gaming against PC, and I was once a great and noble Knight of Consoles.

 

[Maximum Bert]

I miss when Nintendo was actually competitive with their tech. The SNES, N64 and Gamecube were powerful consoles. Then again, it wouldn't make a difference, since I've known their flagship games for twenty years and am sick of them. Until they stop milking their same old cartoon games and make a big push with new IPs, I'll keep ignoring them.

I am pretty much in the same boat although not so firmly entrenched as you appear to be from your statement. I do still enjoy some Nintendo Ips on occasion Mario Galaxy was excellent imo but then the sequel lost it before that I enjoyed Twilight Princess but since these two there have not been many of their titles that have excited me and some really disappointed with the way they were handled i.e Mario Kart 8.

Back on the NES and SNES they could seemingly do no wrong I just loved so many of their games but they just started to feel more and more stale many arent bad and they are great at adding new coats of paint but I dunno it just feels like a lot of the magic has been lost. There is the new Zelda coming but I honestly dont care I may get it but its not something that really entices me.

I have had some great gaming experiences on the Wii and WiiU (especially Wii) but they were very few and far between and they were not first party Nintendo IP games (except Mario Galaxy which imo is the best 3d platformer ever made).

I do wish that they would make a bigger push for new Ips with a greater variety of game genres and more varied visual style.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Nintendo's been failing since the N64. They'll surely go out of business any day now. /s

If Nintendo has disadvantages, it's two things. First, a desire for their consoles to innovate instead of just being the same thing but better, the route taken by the PlayStation and the Xbox. This naturally makes it harder for third parties to develop for.

Second, it's their very conservative Japanese attitude toward the Internet and the digital space. Same reason the anime industry holds digital distribution in very low regard while still trying to charge ludicrous prices for physical media. (The irony being that with regard for anime, it actually works out for foreign consumers who are okay watching subs because anime companies sell digital rights for a song)

 

[Yoshi178]

Well this thread clearly isn't trying to start any arguments.


Gr8 B8 M8. I R8. 8/8.

 

[Yoshi178]

I miss when Nintendo was actually competitive with their tech. The SNES, N64 and Gamecube were powerful consoles. Then again, it wouldn't make a difference, since I've known their flagship games for twenty years and am sick of them. Until they stop milking their same old cartoon games and make a big push with new IPs, I'll keep ignoring them.

N64 and and Gamecube were both more powerful than the PS1 and the PS2 and got trumped in sales by both of them.


lesson is just because you have a powerful console doesn't mean you will win the sales war. which was proven YET AGAIN when the Wii completely trumped the 360 and PS3 in sales

 

[Casual Shinji]

Wii U doesnt try to directly compete with the others and I think that is a smart move. PS4 and Xbox One directly compete, and also try to compete with PC, but no longer by being easier and cheaper, and if they go down that path, well, even I find myself hard pressed to defend modern console gaming against PC, and I was once a great and noble Knight of Consoles.

For my part they don't have to compete graphically/processing power wise, but without it (and in turn without third-party support) all that's left is their thoroughly well troden IPs. At this point franchises like Mario and Zelda are as iconic as Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck, and unfortunately suffer from the same staleness. And you don't even see Disney wheeling them out year after year. Those icons are left almost entirely to the lunchboxes and bedsheets, while the movie space is used to give life to new worlds and characters.

I know the excuse certain Nintendo fans have is that Nintendo only sees fit to create a new IP if it brings new gameplay, but that's closing yourself off to a ridiculous amount of potential. And I would like to see them break out of this mentality.

 

[Saelune]

Wii U doesnt try to directly compete with the others and I think that is a smart move. PS4 and Xbox One directly compete, and also try to compete with PC, but no longer by being easier and cheaper, and if they go down that path, well, even I find myself hard pressed to defend modern console gaming against PC, and I was once a great and noble Knight of Consoles.

For my part they don't have to compete graphically/processing power wise, but without it (and in turn without third-party support) all that's left is their thoroughly well troden IPs. At this point franchises like Mario and Zelda are as iconic as Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck, and unfortunately suffer from the same staleness. And you don't even see Disney wheeling them out year after year. Those icons are left almost entirely to the lunchboxes and bedsheets, while the movie space is used to give life to new worlds and characters.

I know the excuse certain Nintendo fans have is that Nintendo only sees fit to create a new IP if it brings new gameplay, but that's closing yourself off to a ridiculous amount of potential. And I would like to see them break out of this mentality.

As I said, you have to be able to see what Nintendo does right to properly discuss what they do wrong. I agree, they need to spread the IP love, as plenty of other iconic Nintendo franchises arent given enough attention to. I dont mind totally new IPs, but I think just giving other already established ones more opportunities to shine would do Nintendo wonders. I hope Starfox gets more love since their newest game, and Metroid needs more love too, though there supposedly may be a new Prime game coming out. They need to take more chances, like with Fire Emblem, which Nintendo just assumed no one in the West would love, but only after SSB Melee and people were like WTF are Marth and Roy, did they dip their toes in the water, and now Fire Emblem is a major IP world-wide too.

I also think Zelda doesnt get enough credit for being different. Mario likes to tread out the same game over and over, but I think most Zelda games are pretty different from eachother. More so than acknowledged.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I also think Zelda doesnt get enough credit for being different. Mario likes to tread out the same game over and over, but I think most Zelda games are pretty different from eachother. More so than acknowledged.

Mmmmyes and no. Plenty of things about each new instalment are different, but the blue print is always identical. Always Link who is the hero, always Zelda who (at one point) needs to be saved, and always Ganon who is the villain. When Link was rumored to maybe being female in the new Zelda the community went wild over the implications, showing just how starved fans are for something truly fresh from this franchise.

 

[Saelune]

I also think Zelda doesnt get enough credit for being different. Mario likes to tread out the same game over and over, but I think most Zelda games are pretty different from eachother. More so than acknowledged.

Mmmmyes and no. Plenty of things about each new instalment are different, but the blue print is always identical. Always Link who is the hero, always Zelda who (at one point) needs to be saved, and always Ganon who is the villain. When Link was rumored to maybe being female in the new Zelda the community went wild over the implications, showing just how starved fans are for something truly fresh from this franchise.

Well, now we're going into an argument about sequels, cause I think most people lie about what they want in sequels. Me? I like sequels, and I dont want them to be radically different game to game. If I wanted to play a different game, Id play a different game. I like that at its base, Zelda games are the same, with some added gimmick to each entry. I want to be Link in a restrictively open world, going on an adventure in an odd land to save Zelda/Hyrule/World.

I dont really want a female Link. But if they want to be the same, but different, Id be more interested in a game (besides Wand of Gamelon) to instead have Zelda save Link instead. Id still want it to be very similar to the Zelda games we know, but now it instead has a different sword style (since Zelda is generally associated with Rapiers) and maybe instead of hookshots and boomerangs, she has different spells, that ultimately function like Link's items.

But If I didnt want to play a Legend of Zelda game, I would play something else.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I also think Zelda doesnt get enough credit for being different. Mario likes to tread out the same game over and over, but I think most Zelda games are pretty different from eachother. More so than acknowledged.

Mmmmyes and no. Plenty of things about each new instalment are different, but the blue print is always identical. Always Link who is the hero, always Zelda who (at one point) needs to be saved, and always Ganon who is the villain. When Link was rumored to maybe being female in the new Zelda the community went wild over the implications, showing just how starved fans are for something truly fresh from this franchise.

Except for the two games Zelda isn't in, the 6 games where Gannon isn't the antagonist, and the 4 games where you don't interact with the tri-force.

That said, yeah, they could and should do more. Hell, an open world game without a rudimentary character creator? Lame.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I dont really want a female Link. But if they want to be the same, but different, Id be more interested in a game (besides Wand of Gamelon) to instead have Zelda save Link instead. Id still want it to be very similar to the Zelda games we know, but now it instead has a different sword style (since Zelda is generally associated with Rapiers) and maybe instead of hookshots and boomerangs, she has different spells, that ultimately function like Link's items.

I was just throwing that out there as something that was at one time rumored. I just feel Zelda has some of its best moments when it knocks over some of its conventions. When it takes the well-established and turns it on its head. It's what made the mansion a top the icey mountain in Twilight Princess so memorable as a dungeon.

I'd be in for a Disappearence of Haruhi Suzumiya style take on Zelda, where Link disappears from the lore of Hyrule and nobody but Zelda is aware that he ever existed. Que Zelda going on a quest to discover the truth.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

Le sighs. The ole predictive predictions of end of times. The AAA Industry won't crash and burn, Nintendo won't sink into a Sega. As much as many like to fantasise about these scenarios. The waters will rise and the permafrost will flower allowing us to gallantly choke on our own farts of denial before these things occur. And even then there will be some raft floating about populated with Nintendo representatives wearing gas masks, selling holo-cards to intelligent eel communities (or would they be squid? It is too early to say).

I, for one, am glad that Nintendo are around. That they don't fall in line with the other publishers, that their quality remains impeccable for their games. They have their annoyances for sure, such as their treatment of the Metroid Prime franchise and various other quibbles. Can't care for the LPers part though, people aren't being banned from LPing as far as I'm aware, just from using their IPs as an advertisement conduit. Well, not even that really. Nintendo aren't going away, they provide a pure experience that differs from the rest, colourful childish charm can be enjoyed without condescending judgement you know. And not in the typical creepy Japanese sense either. It's just nice to have their quirkiness around as a contrast to the ever looming pessimism of society closing in, hounding you for attention, money, sex and sandwiches. Wait, Marmite...no, no more Marmite...you disgusting creatures! Get off my pockets!!

 

[Saelune]

I also think Zelda doesnt get enough credit for being different. Mario likes to tread out the same game over and over, but I think most Zelda games are pretty different from eachother. More so than acknowledged.

Mmmmyes and no. Plenty of things about each new instalment are different, but the blue print is always identical. Always Link who is the hero, always Zelda who (at one point) needs to be saved, and always Ganon who is the villain. When Link was rumored to maybe being female in the new Zelda the community went wild over the implications, showing just how starved fans are for something truly fresh from this franchise.

I remember arguing that the new protagonist was a girl after the first trailer, when she (I mean he) was wearing blue. It was disappointing to find out it was Link again. I could go for more weirdness in Zelda, like in Majora's Mask. Just let the protagonist travel the world, discovering new places like Termina, instead of starting over in the same old Kingdom of Hyrule all the time. I would be okay never seeing Princess Zelda, the Master Sword, the Triforce, the towns and Ganon again. You can only recycle that crap so many times.

After a point its not a Zelda game. Now, if they want to go the Dark Souls/Bloodborne route and make a game that is basically Zelda, but not, that would be cool.

To elaborate, Dark Souls and Bloodborne IP came about because they were basically their predecessor, but not, so they made a new name for it. Especially Bloodborne (since Dark Souls might have been more a legal issue, while Bloodborne wasnt a "Dark Souls" game because Miyazaki figured it was too different that people would get upset if it had the same name).