Nintendo is kiddy, yet most of their franchises are very neutral

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themistermanguy

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A common argument in favor of Nintendo being kiddy is that it's nothing but preschool colors and dancing mushrooms. Yet, lets look at some of their franchises

Zelda - Take Wind Waker out of the equation, look at the overall graphics, tone, and lore of the series. It's not really "Mature" so to speak, but it's not really kiddy either.

Star Fox - Sure it has some silly commentary, but it also has a pretty action packed and cool setting with weapons and giant robots. It's stuff that kids love, but it also doesn't feel like its overly sweet, or bouncy which also makes it appealing to adults. And if you can't get past the talking animals, then you probably shouldn't be playing Ratchet & Clank.

Fire Emblem - This is kind of a reverse exapmle. Fire Emblem deals with mature themes such as death, slavery, political corruption, and on rare occasions, racism and genocide. But it also has a lot of silly, light hearted moments as well with it's quirky characters and witty dialogue, as well as a colorful anime style.

Kid Icarus - This is kind of like Fire Emblem in the sense of its quirky characters and dialogue, but it's not as mature in its lore or themes. Anyway, Kid Icarus never struck me as kiddy, it just has that upbeat, Saturday Morning Cartoon/Shonén Manga vibe to its tone. It never takes itself too seriously, but it doesn't exclude the older audiences either.

F Zero - It has a flashy, colorful, comic book look to it. But again, its not sweet, or storybook like. It's all stuff that appeals to teenage boys.

So you see, Several of Nintendo's beloved franchises are neither "kiddy" or "mature". They're usually in between. Sure you have your Marios, and Kirbys, and Pokémons. But there is also Metroids, Sin and Punishments, and Pandoras Towers. Then there's Wii Fit, Brain Age, and Piccross which are more lifestyle games for adults. Nintendo is a Family Freindly all ages company, not one specifically for kids.
 

krazykidd

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So why are we stating the obvious? I mean everyone knows that. The reason people call nintendo a "kiddie" franchise is because they are by far more family oriented and have less violent ( as in realistic fighting) than any other gamig company.

Remember less doesn't mean none.
 

TehCookie

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Where do people get this weird idea that because something is made for kids adults can't enjoy it.

Then again I'm kind of person who got stuck in one of those little orange cars with the yellow top because I still enjoy kiddie things when I outgrow them, literally.
 

MysticSlayer

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I'm pretty sure everyone except the most hardcore "MUST HAVE BLOOD AND BOOBS!" audience (i.e. anyone 10-16) would agree that Nintendo isn't 100% childish. However, they almost always have some childish themes, except maybe in some of the Star Fox and F-Zero games. Not to mention, as has already been mentioned, try comparing them to Sony or Microsoft. Sorry, but even the most adult-oriented Nintendo franchises like Star Fox, F-Zero, Custom Robo, and Fire Emblem don't even touch Killzone, Halo, Gears of War, God of War, Uncharted, The Last of Us, and Infamous.

Of course, the very idea that Nintendo is bad because it is comparatively more childish is absolutely ridiculous. I can understand if you just don't like them, but the "they're too childish" accusation really isn't good at all. Consequently, I don't really think we need to defend their more family-friendly design strategies.
 

themistermanguy

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MysticSlayer said:
I'm pretty sure everyone except the most hardcore "MUST HAVE BLOOD AND BOOBS!" audience (i.e. anyone 10-16) would agree that Nintendo isn't 100% childish. However, they almost always have some childish themes, except maybe in some of the Star Fox and F-Zero games. Not to mention, as has already been mentioned, try comparing them to Sony or Microsoft. Sorry, but even the most adult-oriented Nintendo franchises like Star Fox, F-Zero, Custom Robo, and Fire Emblem don't even touch Killzone, Halo, Gears of War, God of War, Uncharted, The Last of Us, and Infamous.

Of course, the very idea that Nintendo is bad because it is comparatively more childish is absolutely ridiculous. I can understand if you just don't like them, but the "they're too childish" accusation really isn't good at all. Consequently, I don't really think we need to defend their more family-friendly design strategies.
Where Did I say these franchises were Adult oriented? I said they were NEUTRAL, as in they posses both kiddy and mature elements.
 

MysticSlayer

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TheMisterManGuy said:
MysticSlayer said:
I'm pretty sure everyone except the most hardcore "MUST HAVE BLOOD AND BOOBS!" audience (i.e. anyone 10-16) would agree that Nintendo isn't 100% childish. However, they almost always have some childish themes, except maybe in some of the Star Fox and F-Zero games. Not to mention, as has already been mentioned, try comparing them to Sony or Microsoft. Sorry, but even the most adult-oriented Nintendo franchises like Star Fox, F-Zero, Custom Robo, and Fire Emblem don't even touch Killzone, Halo, Gears of War, God of War, Uncharted, The Last of Us, and Infamous.

Of course, the very idea that Nintendo is bad because it is comparatively more childish is absolutely ridiculous. I can understand if you just don't like them, but the "they're too childish" accusation really isn't good at all. Consequently, I don't really think we need to defend their more family-friendly design strategies.
Where Did I say these franchises were Adult oriented? I said they were NEUTRAL, as in they posses both kiddy and mature elements.
I never said that you said that Nintendo's franchises were adult-oriented. What I did say is "the most adult-oriented Nintendo franchises." In other words, I'm comparing those franchises to the other Nintendo franchises and saying that, even with those, they still don't make truly "adult" games like Microsoft or Sony. Even if you can say that they are "objectively" neutral, they are still the most "mature" franchises Nintendo has, and while some Nintendo fans may not want to admit it, it's the comparison of those "mature" (by Nintendo's standards) franchises to Microsoft and Sony's franchises that makes Nintendo look as childish as it does.

Again, though, that doesn't make it bad, nor does it mean it can't be enjoyed by everyone. Furthermore, it doesn't mean that they aren't neutral (as opposed to childish) in the grand scheme of things. However, comparisons are key when understanding why people label something the way that they do, so you can't go without recognizing the comparisons that exist among Nintendo franchises or between Nintendo's franchises and the those of Microsoft and Sony.
 

Zhukov

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Reeeeally?

Personally, I don't understand the need for fans of Nintendo games and similar things to try and pass them off as mature. I can only conclude that it's due to insecurity over enjoying something with pastel colours and cartoon animals and whatnot.

Why not accept that their stuff is kiddie? There's nothing wrong with that. Kids can enjoy well made games too.
 

Pink Gregory

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Zhukov said:
Reeeeally?

Personally, I don't understand the need for fans of Nintendo games and similar things to try and pass them off as mature. I can only conclude that it's due to insecurity over enjoying something with pastel colours and cartoon animals and whatnot.

Why not accept that their stuff is kiddie? There's nothing wrong with that. Kids can enjoy well made games too.
There's more mature contemplation in Wind Waker than there is in Gears of War.

Hell you look at some contexts in an abstract light and they're downright hellish. Like Pikmin.
Look at all the things people say about Tom Nook.
 

Smooth Operator

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Well the term you are looking for is not childish or kiddy, it's family friendly, as in your kids will be entertained and you will not be bored at least.
There is nothing wrong with enjoying that I watch a fair share cartoons even now, but the difference is when I was young cartoons took up 95% of my viewing choice and now it's more around 5%.

So when Nintendo wants me to buy extra hardware for that 5% I really must decline, especially since there are plenty of other options.
 

josemlopes

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Pink Gregory said:
Zhukov said:
Reeeeally?

Personally, I don't understand the need for fans of Nintendo games and similar things to try and pass them off as mature. I can only conclude that it's due to insecurity over enjoying something with pastel colours and cartoon animals and whatnot.

Why not accept that their stuff is kiddie? There's nothing wrong with that. Kids can enjoy well made games too.
There's more mature contemplation in Wind Waker than there is in Gears of War.

Hell you look at some contexts in an abstract light and they're downright hellish. Like Pikmin.
Look at all the things people say about Tom Nook.
Lets not go there, anything can be looked as if its something completely different if looked in an abstract light if you want. Remember that terrible Halo episode from Moviebob?

And as for Wind Waker/Gears of War thing, they tackle different topics, there is no point in trying to convince which one is more mature as both can be and not be at times.
 

Pink Gregory

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josemlopes said:
Pink Gregory said:
Zhukov said:
Reeeeally?

Personally, I don't understand the need for fans of Nintendo games and similar things to try and pass them off as mature. I can only conclude that it's due to insecurity over enjoying something with pastel colours and cartoon animals and whatnot.

Why not accept that their stuff is kiddie? There's nothing wrong with that. Kids can enjoy well made games too.
There's more mature contemplation in Wind Waker than there is in Gears of War.

Hell you look at some contexts in an abstract light and they're downright hellish. Like Pikmin.
Look at all the things people say about Tom Nook.
Lets not go there, anything can be looked as if its something completely different if looked in an abstract light if you want. Remember that terrible Halo episode from Moviebob?

And as for Wind Waker/Gears of War thing, they tackle different topics, there is no point in trying to convince which one is more mature as both can be and not be at times.
You know, I wasn't being entirely serious.

I don't believe that thematic elements are inexorably tied to a certain art style; I've found interesting themes in both games. I was basically agreeing with Zhukov, about the insecurity of enjoying a certain art style or style of gameplay.

Kids aren't nearly as dense as the world makes out, I like to believe that they find these themes too; so 'mature' just kind of becomes indicative of what's there on the surface - violence, criminality, adult contexts etc - rather than what the game might explore under the hood, so to speak.
 

veloper

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When parents see the commercials for console exclusive games, they will prefer to buy their kids a Nintendo over a playstation or xbox.

Call the Nintendo games kiddie or kid-friendly or family orientated, the tonal difference between their stuff and the big hitters for M$ and Sony consoles should still be obvious to anyone.

There's nothing wrong with enjoying well-made kid games BTW, so play Mario and be happy.
 

Zhukov

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Dec 29, 2009
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Pink Gregory said:
Zhukov said:
Reeeeally?

Personally, I don't understand the need for fans of Nintendo games and similar things to try and pass them off as mature. I can only conclude that it's due to insecurity over enjoying something with pastel colours and cartoon animals and whatnot.

Why not accept that their stuff is kiddie? There's nothing wrong with that. Kids can enjoy well made games too.
There's more mature contemplation in Wind Waker than there is in Gears of War.
So what?

You won't ever catch me calling Gears of War mature. It's thoroughly juvenile. Having "more mature contemplation" than Gears isn't saying much.
 

loa

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Who cares?
Tons of grown ups catched on to my little pony.
That's one of the few benefits of being an adult you know, you can like whatever the hell you want.
It's not like they use their target audience as an excuse to make a shitty product.

If you dig deeper you will find that there's a lot of mature stuff going on in media targeted at children.
Don bluth did some fucked up shit, something dies in almost every disney movie and digimon tamers becomes a downright disturbing deconstruction of pet monster franchises.
 

Olas

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TheMisterManGuy said:
preschool colors
As opposed to mature, grownup colors?

and dancing mushrooms
Consuming magical mushrooms? Kids these days, I'm tellin ya.

Okay, to address your larger issue here, many people compare Nintendo to Disney in that although their target audience may be kids, their stories tackle very mature themes in a manner that adults can enjoy as well. Saying their stories and themes lack maturity is to have a very naïve concept of what maturity really is.

And yes, their games frequently expose bleak undertones as well. Even Kirby's had to fight the eye of sauron.



And whatever this surrealist horror is supposed to be.

 

captainballsack

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Another thing to look at is the difficulty.

I have no idea why people call Nintendo 'kiddy' when Nintendo games are miles harder than say, Prototype or Gears of War. I think the term "nintendo'd" is still a thing.

I mean, the story and the graphics (they really are the only thing people consider these days, huh? Nobody really thinks about the actual game when discussion games) are intended for any audience, but the actual game design reaches staggeringly high difficulties. Nintendo games aren't so much designed to be finished as they are designed to be played, which is seriously everything I hate about mainstream games today - your Assassin's Creed's and your The Last of Us' are games that are designed to be finished so you can see ALL the story and ALL the artstyle. Again, nobody seems to care about actual game design anymore, it's a shame.

I'm going to stop my pretentious Nintendo grumping before I get out of hand, but I will say this:

I see Nintendo games as "triple-A indie games." In the way that the indie market favours design and mechanics over context and aesthetics, Nintendo are pioneers.
 

Pink Gregory

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Zhukov said:
Pink Gregory said:
Zhukov said:
Reeeeally?

Personally, I don't understand the need for fans of Nintendo games and similar things to try and pass them off as mature. I can only conclude that it's due to insecurity over enjoying something with pastel colours and cartoon animals and whatnot.

Why not accept that their stuff is kiddie? There's nothing wrong with that. Kids can enjoy well made games too.
There's more mature contemplation in Wind Waker than there is in Gears of War.
So what?

You won't ever catch me calling Gears of War mature. It's thoroughly juvenile. Having "more mature contemplation" than Gears isn't saying much.
I 'unno, I'm probably misinterpreting what people call 'mature'. I mean, you and me might look at stuff like the Last of Us, the Walking Dead etc as 'mature' (adult contexts and moral complexity in a situation that's shown to be unsafe and nebulous), but we're only half of the audience.

I was making a glib point - poorly - at the expense of either game. For this I apologise.
 

Quiet Stranger

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Legend of Zelda Neutral!? Oh god no! Zelda is one of the most mature series I've seen, It is probably by far one of the most depressingly dark video game series out there. Of course it's made "for kids" (as in it as an E rating) but The LoZ series truly is a dark place