Nintendo Is Too Easy (The Golden Leaf)

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totheendofsin

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Jul 31, 2009
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Imperioratorex Caprae said:
By this reasoning line, any game with an optional "Easy" mode or such that doesn't force you to play on a hardcore or insane difficulty mode is, again by that reasoning line, crap.
To some people yeah, I remember a significant amount of people complaining that Fire Emblem Awakening had an optional mode that got rid of permadeath and how it ruined the series, despite the fact that the game might not have done as well without it and we wouldn't be getting effectively 2 new Fire Emblem games (one specifically geared towards fans of the older, harder ones) I still see people complaining about it

oh and btw I think if you're dying at a mario game enough for it to give you the golden leaf maybe you shouldn't be complaining about how easy they are
 

NPC009

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Aug 23, 2010
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Oh, yeah, the Fire Emblem thing... I wonder if those people were so pissed because they just knew they'd take the easy road if they had one and this knowledge fills them with sad, sad shame? And of course, the only way to get rid of the shame is to show the world they're like super badass gamers, so they puff up their chest and throw a tantrum.

Or maybe they were angry other people were going to play and enjoy the games differently from what they've been doing, and felt that they had to mark their territory.

Anyway, I think it's great we have games that are balanced in such a way that they can be enjoyed by all sorts of gamers. I sometimes play games on easy myself. For instance, I put Spec Ops: The Line on easy right away because I suck at FPS games and was just there for the story anyway. Sometimes I want a challenge, sometimes I don't. It's nice to have a choice and Nintendo usually gives you one. And in the rare cases they don't, well, just enjoy the game for what it is or don't play it at all?
 

Fox12

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Jun 6, 2013
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I love dark souls, but I don't want every game to be dark souls. Funnily enough, when I finished dark souls, I realized that I wanted a well designed game more then a difficult one. Most "hard" games are artificial in their difficulty anyway, and just have bullet sponge enemies.

I'm fine with Nintendo games as they are, since they tend to be well done.
 

ccggenius12

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Sep 30, 2010
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I think it was Extra Credits, (or maybe Jim Sterling? Heck, could of been anyone, it was a while ago), that did a video on the movement towards optional difficulty? I see no problem with making all of the difficulty in a game optional. Different people have different strengths and tolerances, and appealing to as many as possible is more and more necessary as development costs continue to rise. A game that's super inviting, but hardcore if you give it the chance to be seems like a no-brainer. I honestly don't know how people can justify the sheer outrage directed at what amounts to others being able to enjoy the things they like too.
 

Hades

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totheendofsin said:
Imperioratorex Caprae said:
By this reasoning line, any game with an optional "Easy" mode or such that doesn't force you to play on a hardcore or insane difficulty mode is, again by that reasoning line, crap.
To some people yeah, I remember a significant amount of people complaining that Fire Emblem Awakening had an optional mode that got rid of permadeath and how it ruined the series, despite the fact that the game might not have done as well without it and we wouldn't be getting effectively 2 new Fire Emblem games (one specifically geared towards fans of the older, harder ones) I still see people complaining about it

oh and btw I think if you're dying at a mario game enough for it to give you the golden leaf maybe you shouldn't be complaining about how easy they are
Awakening is a curious case. I think a lot of people who complained about perma death are finding themselves somewhat vindicated with the announcement of phoenix mode. In this mode units don't just survive but are revived the very next turn with full health. Effectively making it impossible to ever fail.
 

totheendofsin

some asshole made me set this up
Jul 31, 2009
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Hades said:
totheendofsin said:
Imperioratorex Caprae said:
By this reasoning line, any game with an optional "Easy" mode or such that doesn't force you to play on a hardcore or insane difficulty mode is, again by that reasoning line, crap.
To some people yeah, I remember a significant amount of people complaining that Fire Emblem Awakening had an optional mode that got rid of permadeath and how it ruined the series, despite the fact that the game might not have done as well without it and we wouldn't be getting effectively 2 new Fire Emblem games (one specifically geared towards fans of the older, harder ones) I still see people complaining about it

oh and btw I think if you're dying at a mario game enough for it to give you the golden leaf maybe you shouldn't be complaining about how easy they are
Awakening is a curious case. I think a lot of people who complained about perma death are finding themselves somewhat vindicated with the announcement of phoenix mode. In this mode units don't just survive but are revived the very next turn with full health. Effectively making it impossible to ever fail.
And the people complaining about pheonix mode are still being silly, they dismiss the 'you don't have to use it' as if the fact that they don't like it means people who may use it shouldn't be given the option

more options has always been a good thing in my book
 

briankoontz

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May 17, 2010
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Video games were difficult in the old days not because gamers were "badasses" compared to the "soft" kids of today, but because arcades were the dominant platform for game developers, so games were designed to defeat the player in a short amount of time, and only by overcoming that did the player gain substantial value within the game itself.

American console manufacturers of that day, including notably Atari, used arcade games not just for straight ports to the Atari system, but as their primary design inspiration. So Atari games were very difficult even though as a home console there was no longer the logical (capitalist) reason for that difficulty to exist.

I'm not familiar with Nintendo's history, but whatever their design inspirations, they did not include arcades as a major source (though still an important source, such as in Mario Brothers' difficulty and "lives" and Donkey Kong). Children's toys and animation companies such as Disney were the likely inspirations. This vast difference in design philosophy led to vastly different games, and meant that Nintendo games were typically easier than Atari games, and could be played (on a single "life") for longer periods of time, more suitable for the console capitalist model of money up-front and zero cost per hour spent in the game.

Because Nintendo introduced the "long-play" design philosophy to gaming, they more than any other developer are responsible for the development of narrative in games, which was nearly non-existent in both arcades and Atari games.

Dark Souls isn't better *because* it's difficult, but rather it's difficulty matches it's design. It's difficulty is not based on what capitalism proscribes for it's platform, but rather on what is best for it as a work of art, at least to an extent (it still holds home-console RPG conventions firmly in it's design).
 

09philj

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I like games to offer a challenge, but I'm not averse to turning the difficulty down if I get stuck on a particular section, then putting it back up afterwards.
 

leberkaese

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Video games should offer a wide range on difficulties, so that everybody can enjoy it. It's okay to build in challenges that only can be achieved by good gamers, but why prevent "noobs" from enjoying a game until the end?

A really good game should have a very low entry level so that it can be enjoyed by everyone. But this game also should have a high skill ceiling for people that want that extra bit of challenge. There are some games that may go without one of those two, because their target audience doesn't need very easy (or very hard) gameplay, but that wouldn't be too many games.

As an example: I don't see myself as somebody that has a hard time learning new games, but I'm happy that Starcraft 2 offers a pretty easy difficulty (I'm playing on normal difficulty, that's fine enough) in their campaigns. Most SC2 players probably don't touch the game on normal or easy mode, because they're progamers putting a lot of time into online multiplayer. But despite that, Blizzard offers this low entry level to new gamers and noobs so that everybody can enjoy the game.

I don't know about Nintendo nowadays, but from what I heard, Super Mario 3D Land has a "final stage" where the levels are pretty hard. When they offer this golden leave additionally, they're doing the right thing. Kids and their grandparents can enjoy the game as well as old-school and skilled players.
 

McMarbles

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kazall said:
Ever since I first saw a golden leaf in super mario 3d land I knew that nintendo games had given up on making a challenge for everyone and were more interested in making a game that everyone can beat.

And unfortunately that rule has followed throughout their lin eup. Recently I bought Yoshi's Wooly World and found the same problem with badges and 'mellow mode'.

https://youtu.be/80tkP4nsV1Y
Nobody's making you take the golden leaf, you know.
 

FillerDmon

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Jun 6, 2014
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The Rogue Wolf said:
FillerDmon said:
If you don't want to use the cheat item of instant win, you don't have to.
To some people that's just not acceptable. There has to be only one path to success, the harder the better, and if you can't follow that path then you deserve only failure and disappointment. "I had to do it the hard way; so should you!"
If that were the case, then why would games even exist? There are some games where there is only one way forward at all, but those sort of games usually aren't the kind of games people complain about being too easy. People trying various different paths and strategies has always been a thing, even since the original Mario Bros. Why should people get crap for the new ones allowing for an easy mode when they aren't really much different from the originals in that regard?

To be a bit more specific, why weren't people bitching about the Warp Whistle or Warp Zones from way back in the day? Aren't those "too easy"? Cut through several worlds without having to deal with them, rather than just a single level.
 

BytByte

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Nov 26, 2009
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Holy Gee I saw the first minute of that video...

Yeah his argument was bad but he had the timing of comatose turtle. And those "jokes" of his, no no no.

It's probably not too healthy to be ascribing worth to the difficulty of 1's and 0's, so I guess it's safe that he only has about a thousand subscribers.