Nintendo or 4kids, who's worse with censorship?

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

I really don't feel that Nintendo's censorship really detracted from their overall product. The games were still fun whereas 4kids really butchered the material. REALLY butchered.

 

[MeatMachine]

Oh come now.

Lollipop cigarettes?
Finger guns?
The 10 or so times across multiple anime series where they replaced story-centric dialogue with "I WANT A BACON DOUBLE CHEESEBURGER"?

NOTHING will ever top the ridiculous 4Kids censorship.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

The 4Kids invisible guns are the best.


Nintendo has had censorship but not on 4Kids level. This isn't even a competition.

 

[SomeGuyOnHisComputer]

Nintendo hasn't censored any 3rd party content since like 1996, barring things like not allowing Binding of Issac on 3DS, which I don't think would happen now since apparently the AVGN game is already approved.

Most of the time when a 3rd party Nintendo game is censored, it's because of the publishers.

 

[Shingeki no Gingerbeard]

As for 4Kids, didn't they straight-up change One Piece? That kind of thing has been done before of course, Our Samurai Pizza Cats is completely different to the source material but if I remember right, One Piece was completely butchered. Yu-Gi-Oh was supposedly neutered too...

All those series done by 4Kids were midhanded, Pokemon included. We lost an entire season's worth of episodes of Yu-Gi-Oh because it was actually pretty damn dark. There was virtually no card playing, and Yugi routinely broke peoples minds and sent their souls to hell.

Samurai Pizza Cats is an interesting tale. It was a Saban dub, not 4Kids, and the original Japanese studio lost most of the original scripts. Saban didn't have anyone in house for translation purposes, so they wrote a brand new script instead to match the visuals. What we got was more-or-less parody, and the Japanese series was played straight. Even the creators admit that SPC was better.

Oh come now.

Lollipop cigarettes?
Finger guns?
The 10 or so times across multiple anime series where they replaced story-centric dialogue with "I WANT A BACON DOUBLE CHEESEBURGER"?

NOTHING will ever top the ridiculous 4Kids censorship.

Actually I thought Sanji's lolipops were a clever change for younger audiences.

 

[CaptainMidlands]

Samurai Pizza Cats is an interesting tale. It was a Saban dub, not 4Kids, and the original Japanese studio lost most of the original scripts. Saban didn't have anyone in house for translation purposes, so they wrote a brand new script instead to match the visuals. What we got was more-or-less parody, and the Japanese series was played straight. Even the creators admit that SPC was better.

Moviebob did an episode about Samurai Pizza Cats for The Escapist covering the story about its release

On to the topic I would like to nominate Kids WB, luckily I'm in the UK so we got a relatively good version of Cardcaptor Sakura (It had a lot of the things took out but it wasn't bad) but Kids WB for there US release removed and completely changed episode order to try and paint Li and not Sakura as the lead and turn it in to a more action orientated series

 

[Hero of Lime]

The 10 or so times across multiple anime series where they replaced story-centric dialogue with "I WANT A BACON DOUBLE CHEESEBURGER"?

Brock said that right? What on earth was the beef patty and bacon going to be made out of anyway? Miltank and Emboar I suppose. Even as a kid I felt that was silly, even though Pokemon (at that time) had never specifically made it clear that real animals did not exist in the Pokemon world.

OT: 4Kids hands down. Rice Ball/Jelly Doughnut debacle is definite proof alone. Along with many others. >.>

Even though Nintendo was certainly overreaching in their early censorship, there was sense in it. Nintendo wanted to be family friendly and inclusive, so graphical violence, nudity, offensive religious depictions etc. are natural things to avoid in such a situation.

 

[themistermanguy]

Actually I thought Sanji's lolipops were a clever change for younger audiences.

That's the problem! 4kids more often than not, pandered to sterotypes of children. Never really respecting, or caring about their intelligence. As long as they got their parents money that's all that mattered. I understand censoring Sanji's cigarette, that wouldn't fly the Saturday morning censors in America. But of all things, why a lollipop? Why not a toothpick? It would've been an easier edit job, it would've looked less jarring, and it would've made more sense in context of the character. But apparently 4kids wanted to be cheap.

 

[pokeplayer984]

4Kids has committed pretty much every sin of what one should not do when they dub something. There is one thing I can never forgive them for, though. Please, do not let me talk about it. -_-

 

[doomrider7]

4kids. You gotta keep in mind that a lot of the censorship from Nintendo came at a time where games were in a bit of a hot seat due to violent content and were primarily marketed towards kids so it made sense to some degree. 4kids are just shit in every conceivable way and only exist to be mocked.

 

[Therumancer]

In the 80s and early 90s, Nintendo was notorious for strict censorship policies. Prohibiting things like Blood, extreme violence, gratouitous sex, religion, or use of alcohol or tobacco. While most of these policies were scrapped with the advent of the ESRB, there's still a rare instance were the company makes a minor change or two so that their games can be playable by kids 14 and under, an important demographic for the company.

But in the anime industry, there was a New York-based children's production company that was not only notorious for extreme censorship, but an example of censorship gone wrong. Although 4kids Entertainment no longer exists, their legacy of heavily edited anime dubs forever live on as a source of humor for anime fans. The problem wasn't just that 4kids censored and edited anime, the problem was that they rarely did it well.

They were pretty much the anime equivalent of an overprotective nanny. Always keeping kids in bubble wrap never letting them get exposed to reality. Most of what 4kids aquired was for kids roughly of upper elementary and middle school age (10-15 years old) in Japan. 4kids, seeing the success of Pokémon, felt it was better to target children younger than that. Thus, the removal of blood, any and all fanservice and innuendo (even if its something relativley harmless), dumbed down, pun-filled dialogue that sounds like it was written by 5 year olds, discarding scenes and even entire episodes that were "unimportant to the main story" (Kids are too stupid to get character development or subplots apparently), And even removing text, Japanese culture, guns, and even the concept of death (kids can't know about these things, they're EEEEEVIIIIIILLLLLLLL!!!).

Say what you want about Nintendo's censorship, at least these days, its subtle and rare. While I don't agree with all their changes (censoring Tharja's ass in the Awakening DLC was going a bit too far IMO), Nintendo at least treats 10-14 year olds with respect, and isn't afraid to expose them to things like death, war, sacrifice, mild fanservice (Great Fairy and Zero Suit Samus are examples), and occasionaly, mild blood. So who do you think is worse?

Well, to be fair at the time they were still reeling from things like the old "Comics Code Authority" and video equivalent and a lot of companies wanted to stay with what they knew was safe, being afraid to push the envelope, especially when they were directing products at a young audience. On a lot of levels the slow and steady way the industry moved probably did a lot for the current levels of acceptance because things gradually increased in intensity rather than tons of ultra-violent and sexy material being dumped on the market all at once "just because we can". At the time you also need to understand that comics and such were in their "Extreme" phase and blood, ultra-violence, T&A, and anti-heroes were everywhere. You had comic books and other "kid" materials as they were still viewed under a lot of scrutiny. Eventually they did move up and become more accepted as entertainment for older folks as well (albeit still ones who are huge nerds) but it didn't happen all at once.

Also to be fair those who knew Anime well enough to be deeply offended by the censorship had ways to get around it. For a long time it was a big deal to pay extra for the subbed VHS tapes rather than dubbed versions because the subbed ones were usually uncut. Granted it was an expensive hobby, and you'd oftentimes wind up paying $30 a pop for a couple of episodes of an anime. Unless of course you got involved with a decent fansub community online, though usually they would only provide things that weren't currently for sale legitimately (or uncut versions different from what was on sale) to avoid hurting those who legitimately picked up the titles and destroying a fledgeling market. That said to be honest I think there is more censorship in anime now than there was then in a practical sense, because subs don't fly under the radar like they used to. I also suspect this had a lot to do with the anime bubble bursting. Granted the censorship isn't as extreme, but it's there, and you've seen "cultural crusades" like the ones over Rapelay making Japan increasingly paranoid about what they are willing to give a US release.

The thing is that Nintendo was in a position where I doubt they would have gotten much attention at all for not engaging in censorship, looking at the issues involved. As a result I think they happen to be worse. 4Kids at least had some justified paranoia, and was probably right that if it hadn't censored during that time period anime would have died a crib death. Like it or not, those horrible versions of things got enough people interested enough that they went out looking for the real versions.

Remember during the 1980s and early 1990s it was still a BIG deal and pretty controversial that they had heroes running around that didn't have a code against killing, combined with a certain raise in the intensity of programming on prime time. We moved away from things like "The A Team" where they might fire off 2000 rounds and never hit anyone, to shows where cops frequently shot and killed people (today we don't even bat an eye at people being shot on Prime Time TV). Some companies, especially the kiddie ones didn't want to be caught in the expected backlash, which never happened, at least not hard enough to make a difference. Though to be honest comics almost did themselves in I think, while I like a lot of 1990s comics (unlike many people) there was an era where it seemed like everyone else wanted to outdo everyone else. We went from heroes who killed either tragically or when there was a genuine need. We had some interesting examinations of the concept via characters like Wolverine (both when need arose, and due to his violent berserker rages which he was desperate to control after a while) or The Punisher who was basically Mack Bolan (novelized Vigilante) transposed into a comic world specifically to show the difference... but then we had guys producing comic titles that featured costumed psychopaths who could barely be considered heroes running around causing carnage and bloodbaths when there really wasn't a need to. I always thought "The Authority" was interesting early on because it managed to capture the conflicting spirit of the 1990s comics scene perfectly right as the new millennium approached, and actually had the "Spirit Of The 20th Century" go down epically right as she passed the torch. Basically you had a bunch of ultra violent characters who were clearly trying to do the right thing, but at the same time there was always the question of whether they were heroes, villains, or both at the same time, at the end of the day though they did their job and saved the world (at least until Wildstorm got cancelled, I always wanted to see how the whole apocalyptic thing worked out).

Basically, all rambling aside, I can at least understand 4Kids even if I don't like what they did. Nintendo didn't have the same kind of excuses despite what they might say.

 

[Broderick]

Aside from One Piece, didn't 4kids also RIP TO SHREDS Escaflowne back when they were the foxbox? Seriously, it was bad, really, really bad. So I will say 4kids. I had thought One Piece was not worth watching until I learned that I watched the heavily censored 4kids version.

Edit: Saban did the dub, not 4kids.

 

[themistermanguy]

Aside from One Piece, didn't 4kids also RIP TO SHREDS Escaflowne back when they were the foxbox? Seriously, it was bad, really, really bad. So I will say 4kids. I had thought One Piece was not worth watching until I learned that I watched the heavily censored 4kids version.

4kids didn't edit the Fox Kids airing of Escaflowne, Saban did. But specificaly speaking, it was Fox itself who behind most of those changes. Saban was owned by Fox at the time, so Fox pretty much told them what to edit.

 

[Broderick]

Aside from One Piece, didn't 4kids also RIP TO SHREDS Escaflowne back when they were the foxbox? Seriously, it was bad, really, really bad. So I will say 4kids. I had thought One Piece was not worth watching until I learned that I watched the heavily censored 4kids version.

4kids didn't edit the Fox Kids airing of Escaflowne, Saban did. But specificaly speaking, it was Fox itself who behind most of those changes. Saban was owned by Fox at the time, so Fox pretty much told them what to edit.

Ah yes, I suppose the association between companies confused me. Thanks for clearing that up. I think 4kids is much,much worse than nintendo, even if nintendo did have a bad streak of censorship.

 

[Malbourne]

While I'm now more familiar with the alterations to One Piece, I actually learned about the changes 4Kids was known for via Yu-Gi-Oh Abridged. And given what I'd heard of them earlier, I didn't really doubt any of it. Heck, I think I'd watched some of those actual episodes several years ago. And even if infamy isn't a good barometer for measuring a company's policies...pfft, it's 4Kids. I don't respect their policies nearly as much as Nintendo's, even accounting for era.

 

[Lieju]

Definitely 4kids. At least nintendo had the excuse of "its our stuff we can do what we want with it " 4kids just edited stuff to the point it wouldn't make sense

Yeah, this pretty much.
4kids messed around with other people's stuff, and the edits were nonsensical and insulting.

 

[Shingeki no Gingerbeard]

Samurai Pizza Cats is an interesting tale. It was a Saban dub, not 4Kids, and the original Japanese studio lost most of the original scripts. Saban didn't have anyone in house for translation purposes, so they wrote a brand new script instead to match the visuals. What we got was more-or-less parody, and the Japanese series was played straight. Even the creators admit that SPC was better.

Moviebob did an episode about Samurai Pizza Cats for The Escapist covering the story about its release

On to the topic I would like to nominate Kids WB, luckily I'm in the UK so we got a relatively good version of Cardcaptor Sakura (It had a lot of the things took out but it wasn't bad) but Kids WB for there US release removed and completely changed episode order to try and paint Li and not Sakura as the lead and turn it in to a more action orientated series

Not everyone here watches MovieBob, but you're right that Cardcaptor Sakura was butchered. I don't know how much was KidsWB and how much was Nelvana, but it was bad.

 

[Shingeki no Gingerbeard]

Actually I thought Sanji's lollipops were a clever change for younger audiences.

That's the problem! 4kids more often than not, pandered to sterotypes of children. Never really respecting, or caring about their intelligence. As long as they got their parents money that's all that mattered. I understand censoring Sanji's cigarette, that wouldn't fly the Saturday morning censors in America. But of all things, why a lollipop? Why not a toothpick? It would've been an easier edit job, it would've looked less jarring, and it would've made more sense in context of the character. But apparently 4kids wanted to be cheap.

You ever hold a cigarette and a toothpick in your hands at the same time? They're radically different sizes. A lollipop is closer in length and diameter, not to mention the predominantly white color of the stick. Reanimating a toothpick in place of a lollipop would NOT have been less jarring, and badasses can still suck on lollies. Ever hear of Kojack?

 

[Shingeki no Gingerbeard]

Aside from One Piece, didn't 4kids also RIP TO SHREDS Escaflowne back when they were the foxbox? Seriously, it was bad, really, really bad. So I will say 4kids. I had thought One Piece was not worth watching until I learned that I watched the heavily censored 4kids version.

4kids didn't edit the Fox Kids airing of Escaflowne, Saban did. But specificaly speaking, it was Fox itself who behind most of those changes. Saban was owned by Fox at the time, so Fox pretty much told them what to edit.

Actually that was Bandai, but Haim Saban was one of the dub producers. Fox also didn't own Saban Entertainment. It was founded in '83 and merged with Fox Children's Productions to create Fox Kids Worldwide in '96; all of which was done to secure for Fox Saban's lucrative contracts with Marvel at a reduced price. By merging into a single company, there were no more licencing fees to air them on Fox's networks.