"Nintendo won't survive without third-party support."

[remnant_phoenix]

So the subject line is paraphrasing of the general sentiment of this ReviewTechUSA video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CquSDIgc1RE&list=UU__Oy3QdB3d9_FHO_XG1PZg&index=1

If you don't wanna watch, here's the quote that really got me thinking...

"The bottom line is, for any company--whether it be Sony, Microsoft, or Nintendo--for their hardware to be successful, it's a delicate balance of third-party games and first-party exclusive intellectual properties. You need both for a platform to stay relevant and be successful. And if Nintendo stays stubborn and doesn't realize this...if Nintendo doesn't accept the fact that they need both third-party and first-party games to survive...eventually the Titanic known as 'Nintendo' is going to hit an iceburg and it's gonna sink. It may not happen 2 years from now, 4 years from now, or 6 years from now, but eventually it's gonna happen, and it's gonna be a disaster."

On the one hand, it seems like he has a point:

Both the NES and SNES "won" their generations by having excellent first- and third-party titles in their libraries.

The PS1 had the best third-party support of any post-crash-of-'83 console, decent first-party games, and high-profile partnered exclusives such as Final Fantasy and everything else that Squaresoft made at the time.

The PS2 had a 3rd-party supported library that has yet to be topped, a continuation of many partnered exclusives, as well the first-party studios under SCE (such as Naughty Dog) really coming into their own, and it was (maybe still is) the most successful video game console in history.

7th-gen is an oddball. The Wii outsold its competitors, but most of those sales were one-time novelty buyers who didn't continue to support Nintendo in software sales and console-successor sales. Of the other two, PS3 had more exlusives, but 360 had more third-party support. In the end the difference in sales doesn't give a clear picture: 360 sold better earlier, but I think that PS3 passed its mark on sales near the tail-end of the generation and is still selling decently well for a last-gen console.

On the other hand, I would think that Nintendo could establish a niche for itself and keep on doing it's own thing without the third-party support. They don't seem interested in being on the cutting-edge of gaming tech, so if they adopt a smaller market with low-cost tech and cater just to the Nintendo die-hards, couldn't they find a way to keep going as a niche company? I'm not sure because I'm a history/literature teacher and I don't know much about how big business works.

What do you all think?

 

[Maximum Bert]

For example, the only games I'll buy a Wii-U for are Xenoblade 2 and Bayonetta 2.

Yup thats why I have a WiiU, I like Nintendo games traditionally but they really have no first party games that pull me in to the WiiU and there was only Mario Galaxy for the Wii.

They undoubtedly have the strongest set of first party title established Ips and icons to choose from out of the big three and quite possibly out of any company in gaming so if they could get the third party support as well they would be in a position of considerable strength. Trouble is Nintendo has not moved forward with the times and tech the SNES was arguably their last great forward thinking console the others since then have all had things that have held them back.

They thought they were top dog then Sega gave them a run for their money and eventually Sony came from nowhere to steal their thunder then Sony thought they were top and MS gave them a giant kick up the ass with the 360 then MS thought they were top and yeah seems they have had a rude awakening so far in the sales with the PS4, kinda noticing a pattern here.

Nintendo still have a few big hitters I know some people who will still get a WiiU just for the new Zelda but they have an image problem they still seem to want to appeal to the family gamer and tbh I dont think that they are the ones who will drive sales I honestly dont even know people who sit down and game as a family its almost always been alone or with friends.

They do better with third party support on the handheld devices the DS had an excellent selection of software to appeal to all types of gamers in particular havent got a 3DS so no idea on that (generally dont like handheld gaming). If they could repeat what they had on the DS for the WiiU they would be laughing.

They have been digging themselves into a hole slowly over the years removing themselves from a lot of the public consciousness its only due to their legacy and the fact they do release some good games still that they have managed to stay somewhat relevant if Sony or MS let themselves fall as far behind as Nintendo they would be hurting much much more.

 

[Mr.Mattress]

Nintendo didn't need Third Parties to sell the Wii, they did that all by themselves. They can do it again, although I don't know if they can do it with the WiiU. But No Hardware Company really needs Third Parties to survive, unless they don't have enough IP's to sustain themselves. Luckily, Nintendo has a lot of those, and will (hopefully) make more.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Nintendo hasn't really expanded their base. Now, their base is huge! Everyone had a SNES or N64, so everyone born in the 80s or 90s are willing to admit they like some Nintendo games. But the younglings? The post 2000 gen? No, they have no interest in Nintendo, not when the PS4 or Xbox or tablets/smartphones, or even laptops are all available. To them Ocarina of Time is a bad-graphics mess of unimpressive characters, with no multiplayer elements or customization. And no tits!
Nintendo thinks of itself as some venerable king of the industry, who descends from Mount Japan to deliver to us dirty Westerners yet another Mario/Zelda/Pokemon game. If you love playing the same game over and over, then Nintendo is your wet-dream! But if you're looking for diversity, of getting a wide variety of games, then no, Nintendo is not for you.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

Nintendo's incompetence pisses me off. They have the best attitude towards games and their customers, but they're 8 years too late when it comes to hardware. Make a console capable of playing third party games, do some advertizing, buy a few exclusive titles. For fuck sake, do SOMETHING.

 

[VG_Addict]

Nintendo's incompetence pisses me off. They have the best attitude towards games and their customers, but they're 8 years too late when it comes to hardware. Make a console capable of playing third party games, do some advertizing, buy a few exclusive titles. For fuck sake, do SOMETHING.

Do you not keep up with news? Nintendo HAS bought a few exclusive titles, like Bayonetta 2 and Devil's Third.

 

[WeepingAngels]

Nintendo's incompetence pisses me off. They have the best attitude towards games and their customers, but they're 8 years too late when it comes to hardware. Make a console capable of playing third party games, do some advertizing, buy a few exclusive titles. For fuck sake, do SOMETHING.

Those third parties with their bad attitude towards consumer rights would bring Nintendo's console down to their level. Nintendo may eventually follow suit.

 

[Ten Foot Bunny]

The lack of third-party support to bring graphical diversity to Nintendo's games is but one reason why I will NEVER buy a Nintendo product. I really dislike the bright, colorful, childlike style of their games. In fact, I was burned out on it during the days of the SNES. The titles on the Gamecube hinted at a desire to bring in gamers of all ilks, but the post-Gamecube era seems to be where they said, "Fuck it, let's be a one-trick pony and foster an image of being the one truly 'wholesome' console." Or did they say "Fudge it?" Yeah, probably the latter.

In my mind, Nintendo is like The Sound of Music when compared to other manufacturers' Evil Dead.

Note, this is only MY opinion and I have no quarrel with people who enjoy Nintendo's style. If "diversity is the spice of life" as the saying goes, then I'm glad our world has so many flavors, Nintendo included. May it never disappear from the gaming landscape.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

Nintendo will be fine. Worst case scenario they step out of the console market entirely like Sega, and with their first parties suddenly everyone will be rushing to kiss their ass to get Zelda and Mario on their systems.

Thats just the worst case scenario though. Nintendo still dominates hand held, and if they move into phones they'll be a strong opposition to Sony.

Nintendo isn't stupid - they do want third parties. The reason third parties don't want to hang with them has nothing to do with system power, and everything to do with the SNES.

Remember the Nintendo Seal of Approval? That was Nintendo's attempt to strangle the market, back in the day. To publish your game on the SNES, you had to give Nintendo a cut for every cartridge MADE, and they maintained strict control over IP's. They were the Apple of their day, and it was just as bad for the market and for them as it is for Apple now. Following the Sony debacle which led directly to the creation of the PS1, and Nintendo's continued attempts to maintain proprietary formats, third party developers became increasingly disenfranchised with Nintendo, leading to their low point with the Game Cube. It wasn't until the Wii came out that Nintendo suddenly became relevant again, and with relaxed standards a second gold rush of shovelware ensued - I think we all remember the billions of shitty Wii games.

Add into this mix the rise of the publisher as the defacto dominant force in the industry (where it had previously been the manufacturers) and you have another hand in the pot - and one that is loathe to give up it's control. For these publishers, a smaller and more controlled market is better, and Nintendo for better or worst is immune to large degree's of publisher manipulation because they own their biggest hitters as first party.

tl;dr - Third parties don't want Nintendo to get big again because they're afraid of being controlled, Publishers don't want Nintendo to get big again because they're afraid of losing control, Nintendo can't get big again because it won't give up control. Expect Nintendo to do most of it's future expansions in hand held, and again, phones (the next frontier for these companies) while maintaining a small but stable presence on consoles with it's first parties.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

Okay, wait a second, RTUSA? That's like citing Rex Reed or Armand White when talking about movies. The guy is completely bottom of the barrel when it comes to talking about games.

Nintendo didn't need Third Parties to sell the Wii, they did that all by themselves. They can do it again, although I don't know if they can do it with the WiiU. But No Hardware Company really needs Third Parties to survive, unless they don't have enough IP's to sustain themselves. Luckily, Nintendo has a lot of those, and will (hopefully) make more.

When you get down it, this is the truth: Nintendo proves the myth that 3rd parties are needed wrong. The company has just been becoming more and more self-sustaining ever since the N64. 3rd parties, and in fact most gamers and even JOURNALISTS, don't get this. Trying to starve them of 3rd party support is NEVER going to make them open their wallets let alone just die off or go 3rd party. The reason MS and Sony need 3rd parties is because their 1st party lineups are PATHETIC when stacked against Nintendo due to not trying to expand their own internal dev teams. Sony has a few, like Ratchet and Clank, Uncharted, Sly Cooper, God of War, Gran Turismo, LittleBigPlanet, and Infamous but when compares against the literally DOZENS of Nintendo IPs (before even getting into spinoffs) they just look SAD. And let's not even get into MS' paltry lineup.

When 3rd parties weren't around for the N64 Nintendo worked on filling in their gaps. It's why we got stuff like the Paper Mario, Animal Crossing, and Smash Bros. series and why Nintendo started branching out with their localization. During the GC/GBA years they got even more diverse, creating new IPs or making spinoffs of stuff. Same thing with the Wii and the DS. And the 3DS is pretty much self-sufficient on Nintendo by this point with the occasional Japanese exclusive like Persona, Etrian Odyssey, SMT, Bravely Default, etc. All I see the Wii U doing is making Nintendo's internal teams go "Well, time to beef up our numbers. Boys and girls, we need to expand so we don't NEED 3rd parties anymore." And that's what's going to happen. Because it's happened EVERY. OTHER. TIME. It's why we have stuff like Wonderful 101, Bayonetta 2, Xenoblade Chronicles X, Splatoon, Hyrule Warriors, Mario Maker, Devil's Third, Yoshi's Woolly World, and Kirby and the Rainbow Curse coming out already or soon. All that the 3rd party drought for the Wii U has caused is Nintendo once again focusing on getting MORE stuff out from itself.

So, in conclusion, the video is full of crap. When Nintendo's keep self-sustaining ALL the damn time you can't claim every hardware maker needs 3rd party support. When Nintendo could even succeed beyond belief without 3rd parties that kinda throw the whole idea of why 3rd parties exist in the first place into jeopardy. There's really no point in saying 3rd parties are a must when a mountain of evidence says otherwise.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Well they've certainly had a rough fiscal year. It's a pretty long way down but the course is steady so far.

 

[MrMan999]

Honestly I trust ReviewtechUSA about as much I trust the local Taco Bell to get my order right. Nintendo in theory doesn't need third party studios. What it does need are more first party studios.

Also lets not forget that Nintendo doomsaying has been prime clickbait since the early days of the internet.

 

[Vault101]

The lack of third-party support to bring graphical diversity to Nintendo's games is but one reason why I will NEVER buy a Nintendo product. I really dislike the bright, colorful, childlike style of their games. .

*GAAAAAAASP* you COD loving pseudo "mature" MONSTER!! YOU ARE A TERRIBLE PERSON [/Nintendofan]

alright sarcasm aside

I'm the same, and it seems that people have accepted the fact that when you get a Nintendo console you are getting a narrow slice of gaming, and they are fine with that

its not like the days of the SNES when there was some real variety from Yoshis island to DOOM or Mortal combat, it was a good investment

if that works out for them financially then thats great, they aren't trying to compete with the others and hell...ambey they shouldn't?

but the fact is if you have to buy a systm what is going to give you the most value? because if you can only afford 1 a Nintendo is going to give you a VERY limtied slice of gaming, Nintendo fans love to self rightously mock people for not liking the kiddie colorful games (and I'm not gonna lie theres probably a little truth there) but lets be real for a second, you want a system then you want one that will give you options and unless your a diehard mario/zelda fan theres no reason to get a Wii U and its not like lighter games don't exist on other systems

 

[Rozalia1]

... Right... because what Nintendo machines need is games I could run better on my PC/PS4 yep. Nintendo has made their console separate enough that a lot of gamers can't simply stick to one console, they have to get Nintendo's on top of whatever else they have. Nintendo owners don't buy the multiplats put on there in huge numbers no (hint: they may own other devices that play them better) which is why the third party multiplats have stopped, not because Nintendo is some big meaniehead to them.

This is business, unless you're some jobber who has never drawn a dime in your life you don't get in the way of good business by shooting on people who can make you money (I'll be surprised if anyone gets the reference). Nintendo is getting badmouthed by pissed off performers because they know they can't draw a dime, and Nintendo knows it too.
In short there has always been Nintendo doomsayers, as there has always been unhappy jobbers who didn't make it trying to keep their name relevant by attacking those who they blame for their own lack of success. Nintendo isn't to blame for that, those that failed are the ones who simply didn't grab that brass ring.

Nintendo manages the most powerful stable of performers in the industry, full of main eventers and underrated talents. They'll be fine.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

... Right... because what Nintendo machines need is games I could run better on my PC/PS4 yep. Nintendo has made their console separate enough that a lot of gamers can't simply stick to one console, they have to get Nintendo's on top of whatever else they have. Nintendo owners don't buy the multiplats put on there in huge numbers no (hint: they may own other devices that play them better) which is why the third party multiplats have stopped, not because Nintendo is some big meaniehead to them.

This is business, unless you're some jobber who has never drawn a dime in your life you don't get in the way of good business by shooting on people who can make you money (I'll be surprised if anyone gets the reference). Nintendo is getting badmouthed by pissed off performers because they know they can't draw a dime, and Nintendo knows it too.
In short there has always been Nintendo doomsayers, as there has always been unhappy jobbers who didn't make it trying to keep their name relevant by attacking those who they blame for their own lack of success. Nintendo isn't to blame for that, those that failed are the ones who simply didn't grab that brass ring.

Nintendo manages the most powerful stable of performers in the industry, full of main eventers and underrated talents. They'll be fine.

I would say at the end of the day, if 3rd parties fail on Nintendo systems, it's because of their own actions, not because of Nintendo. And this is especially true when you have people like Platinum Games, Koei-Tecmo, or the plethora of indie devs who have had nothing but praise for Nintendo's relations (such as Yacht Club Games with Shovel Knight). Furthermore, when games like SMTIV, Etrian Odyssey, RE: Revelations, and Monster Hunter can thrive on the 3DS, it's obviously not because of Nintendo that 3rd parties fail. Though at this rate Nintendo is pretty much making 3rd parties redundant which might be the smarter option. Become less dependent on a sector of the industry that's proven unreliable and unprofessional so you don't have to take the fall for their mistakes which they are no blaming you for.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

I think Nintendo could survive the console market with 1st party titles only, but at the expense of becoming the vestigial empire of gaming.

And when the generation that grew up with the NES/SNES dies off then things will get interesting for them.

 

[AJ_Lethal]

Its not like Nintendo is unaware of this problem. If 3rd parties don't like to play ball with Nintendo for whatever reason, Nintendo has to fill the gaps and they had trouble doing that of lately. Thats why I hope their "iOSfication" plan ends up working for them since that means they only have to deal with a single OS, thus reducing developement times dramatically.

 

[Vykrel]

Nintendo didn't need Third Parties to sell the Wii, they did that all by themselves.

the Wii sold so well because it was something completely different and new, and it appealed to people who arent even into gaming. it was both a game console and a toy that could be enjoyed by pretty much everyone. however, the gimmick of motion controls has worn off by now. Sony and Microsoft abandoned the idea pretty quickly, and Nintendo has as well.

Nintendo needs to ensure that their next console can compete with the others in terms of power and online experience, and they also need some more mature exclusives and new IPs. unfortunately, i dont see any of that happening, and i wouldnt be surprised if they ended up going the way of Sega and stop developing home consoles altogether.

as it stands, Nintendo is relying solely on nostalgia. the only thing that made me buy a Wii was Mario Kart and SSBB, with the hopes that there would be other exclusives that interested me, but there never were any. i learned me lesson and wont be buying a Wii U, even though i really want to play Mario Kart 8. basically, there is little reason to buy a Wii U unless you are a fan of every series they have been offering for decades. you need to be a fan of Super Mario, Mario Kart, Mario Party, Donkey Kong, Zelda, Star Fox, and Super Smash Bros. because that is basically all they have to offer.

they really do need third party support, and they wont get it until their consoles are closer to being equal to Playstation and Xbox.

 

[Something Amyss]

Rich is a histrionic child. He sort of has a point buried in his theatrics, though.

Nintendo will always sell a certain number of boxes to people who really want their franchises. The thing is, for most generations, that number has gone down. They can continue to do their own thing, or they can get Wii sales, but they can't do both. Not reliably, anyway. They had one major success in the last couple of decades and were convinced that they had the formula and they promised big, but they couldn't deliver. Because they aren't the masterminds they were portrayed to be.

Rich isn't interested in reality, though. He's saying this like a week after reporting how well Mario Kart did. Nintendo can absolutely survive without third party support.

Nintendo didn't need Third Parties to sell the Wii, they did that all by themselves.

They were in the right place with a fad at the time. They tried to capture a second fad and the result is missed expectations, price cuts for their handheld, cuts in salary, and angry shareholders. There's a world of difference between doing something once and repeating it, and Nintendo's been trying to take the world by storm for generations. The fact that they've only done it once since the SNES days should indicate they didn't get there through their brilliance and should heavily lean towards luck.

... Right... because what Nintendo machines need is games I could run better on my PC/PS4 yep. Nintendo has made their console separate enough that a lot of gamers can't simply stick to one console, they have to get Nintendo's on top of whatever else they have.

And at that point, it also means many gamers have to choose between the different games they want. The problem for Nintendo is when they come up on the "less than" side of the equation.

Funny you should wrestling terminology, because Nintendo really does remind me of Vince McMahon. A single success is all it took to convince Vince he was PT freaking Barnum, and he's spent decades trying to tell fans what they want and losing most of the time. But because of periodic successes, he's often promoted as a "genius." Fortunately for both, there's a dedicated base that will prop them up, but the idea that either can just crank out hits is completely belied by the numbers.

Unfortunately, carnies and CEOs are both insular creatures by nature.