Nioh Alpha Demo Available

[Captain Marvelous_v1legacy]

Snip

I'd say your first mistake was going into combat without a weapon equipped. I've never played Dark Souls either, but my first instinct was to equip a weapon and my second was to find out what the buttons do.

 

[Kaimax]

So yes, despite the fact that elixirs technically heal a bigger number of HP, they're still objectively worse in terms of percent of your health bar and number of hits you can heal.

And why is this suddenly a problem? That just means in Nioh, you're punished more if you make an error. Also, If you got killed by the enemies in earlier areas, that means you just suck, and need to try and change tactics.

I'm still finding it ironic that Dark Souls players are the main complainers about this being too difficult or even unfair (checked other forums)... What's the usual thing that DS players say to these kind of complainers, GET GOOD.

As long as this kind of video exist, every complaint means you're not trying enough.

The only Legit complaint right now for Nioh are only the:
-Camera
-Durability system
-Proper Tutorials

 

[2HF]

Snip

I'd say your first mistake was going into combat without a weapon equipped. I've never played Dark Souls either, but my first instinct was to equip a weapon and my second was to find out what the buttons do.

Oh I know, I tried to make it clear in my post that my deaths were entirely my own fault. I was unprepared. I may give it another go when I have a chance.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

So yes, despite the fact that elixirs technically heal a bigger number of HP, they're still objectively worse in terms of percent of your health bar and number of hits you can heal.

And why is this suddenly a problem? That just means in Nioh, you're punished more if you make an error. Also, If you got killed by the enemies in earlier areas, that means you just suck, and need to try and change tactics.

I'm still finding it ironic that Dark Souls players are the main complainers about this being too difficult or even unfair (checked other forums)... What's the usual thing that DS players say to these kind of complainers, GET GOOD.

As long as this kind of video exist, every complaint means you're not trying enough.

The only Legit complaint right now for Nioh are only the:
-Camera
-Durability system
-Proper Tutorials

Man, those no damage, bare runs are awesome.

It's interesting to dissect Nioh alongide Dark Souls/Bloodborne due to how they share the same foundation, but then go in different directions with some aspects. You only have 3 elixirs by default, but you can just get more by getting rid of excess items even at the beginning of the game. Nioh punishes the player more for making mistakes, but also rewards them. Stamina loss is bad for the player, but even worse for enemies (especially yokai). There's a smaller selection of weapon types, but their move sets can be customized and have greater depth and complexity to them. It's taking a base and fiddling with its mechanics to do something new. That's how you take inspiration from something but then jump off and gain a unique identity.

 

[Kaimax]

Notice how a Dark Souls boss doesn't demand near godlike excellence in order to progress?

Demo has some cool ideas in it, but unless they DRAMATICALLY tone down the difficulty, I just can't see myself enjoying it. I'd rather play something easier that I can actually enjoy and feel competent at, like Dark Souls or Bayonetta 2 again.

And this is why I don't take you seriously, once again you complain about it being bad just because it's even more difficult than dark souls, while I literally swept the floor after 1 hour of getting used to the game, Now I'm just playing the demo for shits and giggles.
Making a Full Dex build with Fire shurikens and cheesing the game.

So according to you, God forbids any other game be more difficult than Dark Souls.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

And this is why I don't take you seriously, once again you complain about it being bad just because it's even more difficult than dark souls, while I literally swept the floor after 1 hour of getting used to the game, Now I'm just playing the demo for shits and giggles.
Making a Full Dex build with Fire shurikens and cheesing the game.

So according to you, God forbids any other game be more difficult than Dark Souls.

The thing is I'm not sure if it genuinely is harder than Dark Souls, or we're just getting used to the mechanics (y'know, LIKE THE FIRST DARK SOULS) and are just knocking the rust off. One thing is figuring out the flow of the game as I wasn't sure if they wanted us to be cautious like in Dark Souls or aggressive like in Bloodborne. The more I played the more it came to mind that the game is asking us to be FLEXIBLE, which is why there are three stances with radically different flaws and strengths (one skill that is a MUST HAVE is the one that gives you more Ki in a Ki Pulse if you switch stances) and learning when to apply them is the key to victory, allowing you to DANCE around enemies, making them waste stamina, and then punishing them. Plus it's why you get points for all skill disciplines regardless of what you're specializing in so you don't OVERspecialize.

The only genuinely unfair part of the game is the very beginning due to anemic item drops but once you're past that initial hump things even out (plus there's a reason KT is demanding feedback for the Alpha on their website). During the course of the demo I could afford a few mistakes during battle, getting hit once or twice which would force me to retreat, rethink, and recuperate (also, pro tip, if you're getting hit block instead of dodging). Just like Dark Souls it's imperative to pull enemies using stones, shuriken, or arrows (especially the latter considering you can one-shot unhelmeted human enemies with them) in order to get things to one on one but it's not impossible to deal with groups (even if it is harder to deal with them). And of course if it gets really bad the Living Weapon is a convenient out. The odds are stacked against you, but there are ways to even them

 

[Benpasko]

(one skill that is a MUST HAVE is the one that gives you more Ki in a Ki Pulse if you switch stances)

Is that one good? I mostly rely on the low stance for it's amazing ability to recover and conserve ki. My strategy has completely abandoned attacking for damage, though. My guy is pure ninjusu spec, and I've been throwing a fire shuriken, and then using a fire sword with fast attacks to keep the fire from going out. Did you know you can keep building up a status even when the debuff is present to increase the duration? I'm currently at the Nue, taking a break for now.

 

[Benpasko]

It's not about it being more difficult, it's about it being more difficult and feeling cheap about it.

EDIT: Kinda like I just said before, Dark Souls is a game where the difficulty comes from enemy locations and their move sets. Nioh feels like it's idea of difficulty is throwing hordes of bad guys at you and cranking up their damage to insane levels.

I am just not going to enjoy a game where the trash mobs hit as hard as bosses without any reduction in attack speed to compensate, and you're not going to change my mind by insulting me for sucking.

What the fuck do you want from me?

They don't have reduced attack speed, but you obviously didn't notice their miniscule stamina bars. Most normal enemies can only swing 3 times before they're empty, and an enemy with no stamina is free for a crit. Also managing your own stamina requires more attention than souls, no free rolls for days. You can replenish your stamina by pressing the stance button after a combo, or dodging in low stance.

The other big thing is simple, pull less enemies. You should never be fighting more than 2 enemies at once in Nioh, period. You're not going the carve your way through crowds like in a souls game, you need to take the openings you get. Also, your block is 100%, use that shit.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

Is that one good? I mostly rely on the low stance for it's amazing ability to recover and conserve ki. My strategy has completely abandoned attacking for damage, though. My guy is pure ninjusu spec, and I've been throwing a fire shuriken, and then using a fire sword with fast attacks to keep the fire from going out. Did you know you can keep building up a status even when the debuff is present to increase the duration? I'm currently at the Nue, taking a break for now.

The reason it's good is because the Ki recovery is even greater, but I try to be flexible so it fits my play style. Low stance does seem to be the best for giving status effects and I can see why someone would center their style around it.

 

[Benpasko]

Yeah, I know. Usually the crit damage isn't high enough to feel worthwhile to actively go for as a main tactic. And their stamina bars dont seem smaller than yours, so I wouldn't call them minuscule.

Crits don't just do their damage, they open the enemy up for a big combo, you can hit them on the ground.

I consider that a mark against the game. The whole ki pulse mechanic takes the player's attention away from the action and draws it toward where the white mark is on the stamina bar, causing you to take more avoidable damage than you would have taken if there was no silly active reload mechanic and the stamina regen rate was just higher to begin with.

Don't watch the bar, just practice timing it.

I know. The problem there is that low stance makes the game's poise issue a lot worse. The enemies can just tank your hits and hit you with one of theirs, and you dont have a chance to prevent that because 1) you're in the middle of an attack and can't dodge, and 2) you didn't notice them attacking until it was too late because the lock-on system obscured his character model with yours.

You call it an issue, but it's just how the game works. Dodge, then attack. Enemies track way less than in souls with their attacks. Both of your issues are your fault, unless you're in a narrow hallway or fighting around a corner. I always try to lead enemies to open spaces to fight.

Sometimes that's just not possible. Even if you're well beyond aggro range and you shoot an arrow at one guy to separate him from his group, his group will often still stand as well too and follow him anyway.

Playing through the first zone again, there was one time I had to fight 3 enemies. You need to come at the groups of enemies from the right angle in certain cases, otherwise you will eat 5 swords at once.

 

[Maximum Bert]

Think im done for now did the first level 3 times and the 2nd twice. Its amazing how fast you can go once you know its layout. Took me a good few hours being cautious the first time on the 2nd level then the next time literally in 10 minutes I was on the boss. Maybe could have gone faster but I could not outrun the ninja enemies and they tagged me then I got swarmed by the mob train following me.

Still not totally fine with Nue however but getting the hang of it it either goes amazingly well or amazingly poorly. I will be waiting with anticipation for the final game I expect there will be some cheese builds. Its obvious atm Fire Shurikens wreck Yokai and any non boss enemies must admit though I mainly favoured high stance I just found it easier to progress.

Hopefully they can maintain a fair progressive curve and dont suddenly make it unfairly hard at a point.

Feels a nice change just like Ninja Gaiden did and Demons Souls then inevitably that freshness starts to wear off with each sequel. 2nd level reminded me of Tenchu so I liked that a lot (Wish they would make another).

Most annoying enemies for me though were the fire arrow archers and the ghoul zombie things especially when they throw the explosives (with marksman accuracy). From what I can tell they do not run out either which I wish they would change. Make them follow the same rules as the players like with Stamina.

Main complaints for me were Durability system is not fun and later its largely mitigated anyway just making it a task in pointless busywork to keep it topped up.

UI is pretty poor that really is not very intuative.

Camera on occasion is not very helpful its not Bloodbourne levels of annoyance but I have died from it spazzing out a few times usually in small spaces.

No way to respec I hated this in Souls and I hate it here hopefully that is changed for release. Games have been ruined for me before when I realised what I had chosen was not the way I wanted to go in the end or that I put my points in a useless skill because it sounded amazing on paper.

The level jumped a bit from 5 to 25 in the demo so I wonder if that is the proper progression? I know I now need 100K Amrita to level now which takes a while hopefully it doesnt get to stupid and grindy to make the build you want.

 

[Maximum Bert]

-snip-

- I could not outrun the ninja enemies and they tagged me then I got swarmed by the mob train following me.
For the earlier parts of the 2nd Mission, I used the Shark Spirit Guardian, as it has the skill to locate enemies on the mini map. After I knew every location of the enemies in that mission, I changed to the Dog Spirit and start grinding Amritas.

This was on my second run through so I knew where every enemy was. I just wanted to see if it was possible to run past everyone and then open the shortcut straight off but I was not able to do it due to the ninja although if you kill the ninja and dagger demon its very easy to do.

-The level jumped a bit from 5 to 25 in the demo so I wonder if that is the proper progression?
I was a bit iffy about that too at first, but I was already Lvl 30 when I started the 2nd mission, which means Team Ninja knows the average player level after finishing the first mission. The thing that really sucks for progression right now is the equipment. My One of a Kind gear, is "worthless" stat-wise compared to some Uncommon drops in the 2nd mission, they need to add/change something that will make that part of progression consistent.

Yeah I was a bit unclear I meant about character progression and Amrita gain im about lvl 40 ish now and it was 100`000 to level after that one level its 200`000 and im earning bugger all Amrita really even killing Nue doesnt get you much toward that. Just gonna see how they deal with it but no doubt there will be farming exploits.

As a side note I ended up beating both levels again tonight. Tried some talismans on Nue was going to try a few but ended up slaughtering it on my first go in about 30 seconds either I got lucky or Nue really does not like water. Which would be a bit strange as I would have thought Earth would have been the powerful one against it (may have to test tommorow).

Will be interesting to see if they go for a Demons Souls or Mega Man type level system where you can choose what stages to go when you want to a degree rather than it being linear. I would imagine the first is forced but not so sure after that. Will find out in a few months anyway it seems.