No Backwards Compatibility - One of the many signs of industry greed?

[Atmos Duality]

Fact: Three of the four games did not work for either backwards compatible ps3 set-ups.
Fact: Sony isn't selling those games, Atlus, Capcom, Konami, and NipponIchi are.
Fact: Blaming Sony for milking remakes when the names ATLUS, CAPCOM, KONAMI, and NIPPONICHI are mentioned is like you have no idea what those companies do.

Fact: Sony gets a cut of those sales for hosting them on their system.
The publishers might milk the cow, but Sony owns the farm.

There isn't anything innately wrong with re-releasing those titles (the two forms of emulation in question are VERY different), but to claim that Sony is innocent in milking those games is laughable. Remember: Sony had to develop and OK the basic emulation package, and then OK each game for sale on their system.

Hell, this wouldn't even be controversial if Sony hadn't claimed that such emulation wouldn't be possible or economical early in the PS3's life.

I'd like to point out this has been every console manufacturers strategy, take the initial loss on the console and make it up in game sales while reducing manufacturing costs thats why its a huge deal when a console hits the break even point which is normally 2-3 years after launch since then console prices can be reduced increasing the number of games sold dramatically. The ps3 hit the break even point in 08 if I remember correctly and thus haven't been sold at a loss for some time.

Not every. The Nintendo Wii actually turns a small profit of about 2$-3$ per system. But then again, the Nintendo Wii is effectively a 10 year old system with a motion control suite strapped to it.

 

[Jacob.pederson]

No seriously, who else has noticed this crap? It's easy to spot. My 360 can't play most of the original xbox games excluding of course ones co-produced by microsoft. I heard sony isn't putting backwards compatibility into any of the new ps3s, but both companies ARE selling games from those systems as digital content so you'll have to buy them again. What a load of shit. It's extortion. Or at the very least they're intentionally gouging you. Why the fuck do we put up with this? Why are we letting them make it so we can't play our old games until we buy them again from some digital store? We need to send them a message. Backwards compatibility or no money for you!

And being a business does not excuse them from this shit. For fucks sake, at this point, the mafia is technically a business since they also do whatever they can to make money.

Answer: You don't have to put up with it . . . yet.

For PS2 Games, emulation is the way to go. Emulators don't just play pirated copies, they play your real game disk also If you don't have a modern PC, a brand new ps2 will run you 150$. Not a bad deal for the size of its library

For Xbox games, a used refurb Xbox will run you a whole $60. Well worth it.

For Nintendo Gamecube, no issue, backwards compatibility is 100% supported on the WII, including support for your old controllers. Ditto for the DS to gameboy and 3DS to DS compatibility.

And on the subject of re-released games, I think there are some situations that are worth it. For example, the remastered version of Shadow of the Colossus, looks absolutely incredible in 3D. Same for Link on the 3DS. I think if the dev can show significant improvement in graphics, tech or framerate, all while lowering the price on the original, I'll definitely consider a repurchase.

 

[DracoSuave]

Also, and this must never be forgotten, the BC on ps3s SUCKED. It's not the situation that it was good and they decided to stop making it...

And the games they're releasing online revolves around that emulation, so....

1) Ports != Emulation. The games released are being ported to PS3, not PS2 games emulated by PS3.
2) S is the set of companies releasing PS2 games on PS3, and it is: {Capcom, Konami, Nippon Ichi, Atlus}. The set S does not include Sony
3) Any conspiracy about them using 'emulation' (read: porting code) in order to make easy cash would probably involve games that sold well. Seriously. Ring of Red and Odin Sphere as cash cows?!

 

[DracoSuave]

Fact: Sony gets a cut of those sales for hosting them on their system.
The publishers might milk the cow, but Sony owns the farm.

There isn't anything innately wrong with re-releasing those titles (the two forms of emulation in question are VERY different), but to claim that Sony is innocent in milking those games is laughable. Remember: Sony had to develop and OK the basic emulation package, and then OK each game for sale on their system.

Hell, this wouldn't even be controversial if Sony hadn't claimed that such emulation wouldn't be possible or economical early in the PS3's life.

Again, ports are not emulation.

And second, sony's not running a cash cow here. It's less of a cash cow, and more of a penny jar couple of chickens kept for eggs.

In this instance, it's four games that didn't get a lot of press and weren't judge sellers nor in largescale production. Digital distrbution is ideal for these games... if they didn't show up on ps2 first people would stfu about it and would be happy.

 

[Danny91]

....I do just want to point out how glad I am that so many people have taken the time to repeat the information that a PC can run all PC games from years ago with minimal effort; I really wasn't quite aware of this being a feature of PCs until at least the 5th time I saw someone post it...I am still concerned though, I wonder, do these good fellows know that there is a difference between the format of PC games and console games, and that many of my favourite games are released only on consoles, meaning that simply inserting my beloved games into a PC disc drive will not magically make them work...I hope some of them have some advice for me, because the way they repeatedly emphasized this witticism of theres about just using my PC for my gaming desires, I could have sworn they were privy to a solution, and I would be delighted to hear how this could be implemented.

 

[DracoSuave]

They'll tell you 'emulation' without, of course, admitting that PC emulation, even of PS1, is far from perfect, and PS2 is... iffy at best.

Also it's illegal in those cases because it requires running the BIOS which is proprietary software covered by Copyright law, and no, emulation is not 'fair use'

 

[asinann]

There are 4 consoles that have had any kind of backwards compatibility for any period of time.
PS2, PS3, Wii and Xbox 360. How is the lack of backwards compatibility them being greedy? Aren't kids today just spoiled and not getting their own way?

 

[Steven Snyder]

I'd be perfectly fine with sony if they allowed me to somehow purchase a PS2 emulation software for the PS3 on their marketplace so that I could play my old games. I don't see why they can't compromise with us by doing that.

 

[willsham45]

I am a PC gamer, so I do not have that problem, If I got it I can play it...although It may need a little workaround.

But really does it have to be backwards compatable. Ye is was easyier to justify at one point, the cartrages were different so oviously they were not going to work.

But with most things being disk based...You cannot buy New old consols unless they are custom made but even then are they new? Old consols are not all that hard to get hold of thanks to ebay and gumtree and the like. And yes the wii did it so all your game cube games work on the wii but is it manditory that it has to.

Come to think of it is a xbox game not working on the 360 any different from a 360 game not working on the ps3?

 

[Nigh Invulnerable]

How about instead of whining, you go buy a PS2 for 30 bucks. Problem solved.

I concur. No one forced the OP to get rid of their old console or games, right? So just use those.

 

[]DustArma[]

Backwards Compatibility is more or less a recent trend however:

None of Nintendo's consoles had any backward compatibility until the Wii, with the exception of GC all of the titles supported by the Wii are by way of emulation and it forces you to repurchase your NES/SNES/N64 games. The handhelds were different however with every generation being backwards compatible with the previous one until Nintendo releases a revision that removes it.

Sony's PS2 and Early PS3s had hardware backward compatibility, as for the PS3 they were forced to drop it due to the excessive price the PS3 was being sold at, this was before the trend of HD re-releases started.

The Xbox 360 had backwards compatibility with the Xbox by way of emulation, and I admit that Microsoft not even attempting to include more games was a dick move but again this was before the trend of HD re-releases started.

The only consoles that had backwards compatibility before the 6th generation were Sega made ones.

The Master System had compatibility with the SG-1000 and the Sega Genesis/Mega Drive had compatibility with the Master System but you needed to buy the Power Base adapter, the Saturn and the Dreamcast had no backwards compatibility.

 

[rayen020]

No seriously, who else has noticed this crap? It's easy to spot. My 360 can't play most of the original xbox games excluding of course ones co-produced by microsoft. I heard sony isn't putting backwards compatibility into any of the new ps3s, but both companies ARE selling games from those systems as digital content so you'll have to buy them again. What a load of shit. It's extortion. Or at the very least they're intentionally gouging you. Why the fuck do we put up with this? Why are we letting them make it so we can't play our old games until we buy them again from some digital store? We need to send them a message. Backwards compatibility or no money for you!

And being a business does not excuse them from this shit. For fucks sake, at this point, the mafia is technically a business since they also do whatever they can to make money.

The solution is simple: Don't get rid of your old consoles and games.

I think it's pretty melodramatic to call it cooperate greed or extortion. You act like you have NO choice but to old buy games again, but really if you sold the game in the first place or otherwise don't have access to it, then you'd have to buy a copy again anyways to play it now wouldn't you?

i was basically gonna say this...

 

[ACman]

This is the real reason that the PC is the home of the Gaming Master Race.

Except the games that I want to play came with 16 bit installers and now that I have a 64-bit OS it's impossible to play them.

Out of interest which games?

Namely: Star wars episode 1 podracer.

there were some others but I cant remember them

Anything that required windows I've found usually works in XP compatibility mode running as administrator. Other than that I've always found DOSBox to be a faithful aid.

 

[Garethp]

You realize that PS2 and early PS3's had their previous consoles built into them? Seriously the PS2 and PS3 had the same CPU's and GPU's built into them. Not as in they used the same ones for their games, as in they took the same ones from the previous generation and shoved them in, for the sole purpose of BC. You know what that costs? A shit-tonne. A metric shit-tonne. Okay, not that much, but enough to make PS3's expensive as hell. You know why no-one bought one? Because they were expensive. You know why they were expensive? Because they had old, hard to support, hard to replace, obselete parts in them!

So what about PS3 playing PS1 games? Emulators. These things are a ***** to program and debug and keep up to date. Seriously, grab a PS1 emulator for your PC, trying playing FF8 on it. It's buggy. Try grabbing a PS2 emulator and playing FFX on it. Yeah, still really buggy. This is after 10 years of the brightest people trying to work on them. As in the same kind of people who go into a BIOS and read through it and hack it up for fun. The same kind of people who make GameBoy emulators in your browser just for lulz.

So what about PS1 games that aren't buggy on PS3 that you buy off PSN? They're ported. As in re-coded. From scratch. They went through the old code and redid it all by hand. It's not like they just run a program that does it for them, they have to do it manually. This means more cost to publishers. Fair call for them to charge for those.

Why do you think Xbox 360 and PS3 haven't just re-released all the old games at once at a higher cost? Because it takes time and effort to remake them. If it was just simple run a program to convert, then do you think the 360 wouldn't have released all of the old Xbox games by now? After what, 5, 6 years?

I'm a programmer, in a different area I will admit, but I still have something to say to you all

Supporting old legacy applications > 4 years old and making them not fuck up every day is such a *****, that I want to throw my keyboard through my screen every time I'm working on one of them

So quit your bitching and just bring out your old consoles. You have the games, you have the old consoles, just use them

 

[Joby Baumann]

Even the ps2 is hardly backwards compatible, ever try saving a ps1 game with a ps2 memory card?

 

[Korolev]

Of course they are doing it to make money. They're a business. You can't equate them to the mafia, since they are selling their own products legally. If you don't want to buy it.... don't. Sony and Microsoft aren't stereotypical 1920's gangsters holding a tommy gun to your spouse and saying "See, ya gots a pretty wife/handsome husband, see, and if ya don't buy our game... well, see, it'd be a shame if anytin' were ta happen ta her/him, see".

As others have pointed out - emulation is not as easy as you'd think or as cheap. Besides, to those of us who already have the older games and the older consoles, there's no problem. I still have my PS2 and I still play my old games on it - so we aren't the target market. The target market are those who can't play the old games again or never bought them when they were first released. For them, the new remastered games are a benefit.

I don't understand what the problem is - if you already have the discs and your old console... just play it on that. If you have the discs but you don't have the console, well you can find one cheaply. If you have the console but lost the games.... well, what are you complaining about? They are giving you the option of buying them again, and if you liked them enough to really want to replay them, there's nothing wrong with it.

At the end of the day, games are luxuries. Yes, they are. Luxuries. Not necessities. Not food. Not air. Not access to education. Not a right to vote. They are CONSUMER LUXURIES MADE BY PRIVATE COMPANIES, SOLD BY PRIVATE COMPANIES FOR THE PURPOSES OF ENTERTAINMENT. You have no more "right" to a video game than you do to a Ferrari or an iPad or a gold ring.

If sony and microsoft want to sell you THEIR products, why can't THEY set the terms and the price? YOU have the option of saying no. We all have that option. And if you don't like the price or the content, then don't buy it!

 

[thespyisdead]

No seriously, who else has noticed this crap? It's easy to spot. My 360 can't play most of the original xbox games excluding of course ones co-produced by microsoft. I heard sony isn't putting backwards compatibility into any of the new ps3s, but both companies ARE selling games from those systems as digital content so you'll have to buy them again. What a load of shit. It's extortion. Or at the very least they're intentionally gouging you. Why the fuck do we put up with this? Why are we letting them make it so we can't play our old games until we buy them again from some digital store? We need to send them a message. Backwards compatibility or no money for you!

And being a business does not excuse them from this shit. For fucks sake, at this point, the mafia is technically a business since they also do whatever they can to make money.

you seem to be exaggerating the problem on the xbox, as (i estimate) over 80% of the released titles CAN be played on the 360 (the Japanese version supporting drastically less) and the non playeble ones being very obscure titles. how ever, from what i have heard, the PS is a whole different story. it does not even make the graphics better (i think it even makes the graphics worse), and the library of PS2 games is significantly smaller. if anything, you should aim your rage at sony, not microsoft, as microsoft has made better effort for backward compability

 

[oktalist]

You know why the PS2 had backwards compatibility? Because it literary had a PS1 inbuilt into the console. They released one PS3 model that had a PS2 inbuilt, the 60GB models.

So then they had a PS1 inside a PS2 inside a PS3. Srsly, isn't backwards compatibility stupid?

The next complaint will be that 360 and PS3 should be able to play each other's games.

 

[ultimateownage]

Why would you sell your old console but keep all of the fucking games?

This is the real reason that the PC is the home of the Gaming Master Race.

Go and try play PC games from DOS or earlier. Hell, try play any game from before XP. Windows is the most reliable for running old programs, and that's because Microsoft have put countless time into making sure things don't stop working when they change any tiny thing about their operating systems. The more advanced the Operating System is, the less likely the older games will work. All computers are theoretically backwards compatible, but that's only because the base components haven't changed dramatically. The software has, though.