No Backwards Compatibility - One of the many signs of industry greed?

[manaman]

Kids...

Backwards compatibility was toyed around with in the earliest gaming systems and given up. It was given up until the PS2 came out. The PS1 chips where remarkable compatible with the PS2 hardware, it basically had a PS1 inside, thus backwards compatibility was in. The Wii works the same way with gamecube games as the PS2 did with PS1 games.

That was also during a time when phones couldn't send text, play music, run a thousand little niche apps that have little or no real-world use, but you tell any iPhone user that any of the above was NOT going to be in the next model, and they'd go apeshit crazy about it.

Backwards compatibility, regardless of the reasons for its inception, ended up being a critically acclaimed feature. People enjoyed having a SINGLE console that could play games from any version of said console, past or future. Regardless of how often they used it, the fact that it was there should they ever choose to was invaluable.

Those examples are software running on top of diverse hardware much how software runs on a computer. Software on a console doesn't work like that. That's how you can eek out a somewhat comparable performance from the console as you can on a vastly more powerful computer system.

It's because there is are additional layers between the hardware and the software that the game is actually running on. Those layers do not exist on a console. In order to properly supply backwards compatibility you have to either emulate to the best of your abilities (which is somewhat sloppy work, and won't work for all games) or you have to include the chipsets from the previous systems, this being the only real reliable way to provide backwards compatibility.

It's simply not as easy to provide backwards compatibility as it is to code updated chat software for a new version of android or iOS.

 

[ACman]

This is the real reason that the PC is the home of the Gaming Master Race.

Except the games that I want to play came with 16 bit installers and now that I have a 64-bit OS it's impossible to play them.

Out of interest which games?

Namely: Star wars episode 1 podracer.

there were some others but I cant remember them

Anything that required windows I've found usually works in XP compatibility mode running as administrator. Other than that I've always found DOSBox to be a faithful aid.

16 bit installers are literally impossible to run on 64 bit windows. In some cases you might get lucky and windows will supply a generic 32 bit replacement. But in some cases it will literally not work. Without installing it on a 32 bit OS and copying data along with regestry values. And frankly I don't feel comfortable with doing that.

I've never found anything I couldn't get to work. There's always VMware. It's a bit of an inelegant solution but no more so than DOSBox I guess.

 

[Funkysandwich]

Yeah, I play a lot of old games on my PC still. My PS2 still works fine, and I've got a gamecube lying around somewhere. I don't buy re-releases of old games I already own.

 

[DracoSuave]

You didn't know that? The original models (20GB, 60GB, 80GB) had backwards compatibility. They took it out because it cost too much.... i think.

The old backwards compatibility involved using a vestigial Emotion Engine that only served the purpose of backwards compatibility. This is different than PS2's backwards compatibility in that while PS2 used the same strategy (solder on a PS1 chipset) the actual PS1 chip served as a processing unit for sound and such. The EE used in the early PS3s, however, did nothing BUT backwards compat.

The problem was... the PS3 configuration was expensive, didn't help the PS3 be a PS3, and it didn't even work very well at being a PS2. As a result, for the amount of money they reduced the cost of the PS3 by removing the chip, you can now buy two PS2s.

Think about that. Sony is grubbing money, by removing something from it that costs more than the thing it was designed to emulate.

There's just no pleasing some people.

 

[Spoon E11]

-snip it was getting way too big-

Tried it, didn't work can't remember why. Anyway a relative is throwing out an old computer, might put 32 bit XP on it and see where we are at.

 

[RoBi3.0]

No seriously, who else has noticed this crap? It's easy to spot. My 360 can't play most of the original xbox games excluding of course ones co-produced by microsoft. I heard sony isn't putting backwards compatibility into any of the new ps3s, but both companies ARE selling games from those systems as digital content so you'll have to buy them again. What a load of shit. It's extortion. Or at the very least they're intentionally gouging you. Why the fuck do we put up with this? Why are we letting them make it so we can't play our old games until we buy them again from some digital store? We need to send them a message. Backwards compatibility or no money for you!

And being a business does not excuse them from this shit. For fucks sake, at this point, the mafia is technically a business since they also do whatever they can to make money.

I am sorry I must have missed where Microsoft and Sony engineered Kill switches in the PS2 and original XBOX, and where they set them off effectively destroying the worlds supply of original XBOXs and PS2s. That is extortions why the fuck has more nobody sued them yet.

Backwards Compatibility has never been an industry standard, the only console that had it was the PS2(and Wii but does it really count ). I don't understand why people get butthurt about it. If you don't want to rebuy your games then don't sell your old console it is as easy as that.

 

[]DustArma[]

You didn't know that? The original models (20GB, 60GB, 80GB) had backwards compatibility. They took it out because it cost too much.... i think.

The old backwards compatibility involved using a vestigial Emotion Engine that only served the purpose of backwards compatibility. This is different than PS2's backwards compatibility in that while PS2 used the same strategy (solder on a PS1 chipset) the actual PS1 chip served as a processing unit for sound and such. The EE used in the early PS3s, however, did nothing BUT backwards compat.

The problem was... the PS3 configuration was expensive, didn't help the PS3 be a PS3, and it didn't even work very well at being a PS2. As a result, for the amount of money they reduced the cost of the PS3 by removing the chip, you can now buy two PS2s.

Think about that. Sony is grubbing money, by removing something from it that costs more than the thing it was designed to emulate.

There's just no pleasing some people.

That's pretty much the reason, all of the home consoles that had any degree of successful backward compatibility integrated the previous generations hardware closely into them:

-The Master System's main CPU was used as a Sound Processor for the Genesis/Mega Drive.

-The PlayStation's main CPU was used as an I/O processor for the PlayStation 2 (Not sound processing, the PS2 had dedicated sound processors for that)

-The Wii is essentially a more powerful GameCube (They have pretty much the same hardware but overclocked IIRC).

The PS3 however, the way they implemented the GS and EE made them superfluous, which made them far more expensive to put in.

 

[targren]

No, what they're selling are games that were actually emulated, not Ps2 games and an emulator. If that were even close to what was going on, buying one Ps2 game off PsN would unlock the whole emulator, which would allow you to play any Ps2 game you put in there. Thats not the case, so the person who is lying, is you.

I'll forgive the slur because it's clear from what you said that you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about, and your primary assertion(bolded) is entirely divorced from reality.

Fact: Sony isn't selling those games, Atlus, Capcom, Konami, and NipponIchi are.
Fact: Blaming Sony for milking remakes when the names ATLUS, CAPCOM, KONAMI, and NIPPONICHI are mentioned is like you have no idea what those companies do.

Fact: If you think Sony doesn't get a vig off of every game sold on PSN, I have a bridge to sell you.

 

[squid5580]

No seriously, who else has noticed this crap? It's easy to spot. My 360 can't play most of the original xbox games excluding of course ones co-produced by microsoft. I heard sony isn't putting backwards compatibility into any of the new ps3s, but both companies ARE selling games from those systems as digital content so you'll have to buy them again. What a load of shit. It's extortion. Or at the very least they're intentionally gouging you. Why the fuck do we put up with this? Why are we letting them make it so we can't play our old games until we buy them again from some digital store? We need to send them a message. Backwards compatibility or no money for you!

And being a business does not excuse them from this shit. For fucks sake, at this point, the mafia is technically a business since they also do whatever they can to make money.

The solution is simple: Don't get rid of your old consoles and games.

I think it's pretty melodramatic to call it cooperate greed or extortion. You act like you have NO choice but to old buy games again, but really if you sold the game in the first place or otherwise don't have access to it, then you'd have to buy a copy again anyways to play it now wouldn't you?

I don't understand how it is corporate greed in the first place. I mean why did you buy a next gen system if you only plan on playing last gen games? And if you want to play both well where is your old system? If it broke down well the only people who are going to profit off of you buying another one is the guys on Ebay, your local pawn shop or Gamestop (and reasonable facimiles). But I am sure Sony and MS is making a mint off of selling you last gen retail games. No wait that would be the same people who are selling you the consoles that are making the money off those games. Greedy bastards for not making new old last gen games and putting them on store shelves just so they can spend money on equipment to make next gen consoles play them.

Why is intelligence always confused with greed?

 

[OrokuSaki]

The old backwards compatibility involved using a vestigial Emotion Engine that only served the purpose of backwards compatibility. This is different than PS2's backwards compatibility in that while PS2 used the same strategy (solder on a PS1 chipset) the actual PS1 chip served as a processing unit for sound and such. The EE used in the early PS3s, however, did nothing BUT backwards compat.

The problem was... the PS3 configuration was expensive, didn't help the PS3 be a PS3, and it didn't even work very well at being a PS2. As a result, for the amount of money they reduced the cost of the PS3 by removing the chip, you can now buy two PS2s.

Think about that. Sony is grubbing money, by removing something from it that costs more than the thing it was designed to emulate.

There's just no pleasing some people.

A used PS3 60GB at gamestop is $350. A used PS3 at gamestop (80GB without backwards compatibility) $250. My PS3 haven't rejected a single PS2/PS1 game. Is that worth $100? FUCK YEAH!

 

[Therumancer]

No seriously, who else has noticed this crap? It's easy to spot. My 360 can't play most of the original xbox games excluding of course ones co-produced by microsoft. I heard sony isn't putting backwards compatibility into any of the new ps3s, but both companies ARE selling games from those systems as digital content so you'll have to buy them again. What a load of shit. It's extortion. Or at the very least they're intentionally gouging you. Why the fuck do we put up with this? Why are we letting them make it so we can't play our old games until we buy them again from some digital store? We need to send them a message. Backwards compatibility or no money for you!

And being a business does not excuse them from this shit. For fucks sake, at this point, the mafia is technically a business since they also do whatever they can to make money.

I agree with you, their basic arguement is that it's too espensive to do, by which they mean they would make less money as opposed to actually taking a loss. After all a lower margin of profit on the hardware due to higher production costs, combined with losing the revenue from re-selling their previous games?

The thing is we keep tolerating this, and as a result it keeps getting worse.

It's kind of telling when one of EA's defenses of Origin's massive violations of privacy on your system is that this is now "industry standard practice".... like that's a defense.

 

[DracoSuave]

The old backwards compatibility involved using a vestigial Emotion Engine that only served the purpose of backwards compatibility. This is different than PS2's backwards compatibility in that while PS2 used the same strategy (solder on a PS1 chipset) the actual PS1 chip served as a processing unit for sound and such. The EE used in the early PS3s, however, did nothing BUT backwards compat.

The problem was... the PS3 configuration was expensive, didn't help the PS3 be a PS3, and it didn't even work very well at being a PS2. As a result, for the amount of money they reduced the cost of the PS3 by removing the chip, you can now buy two PS2s.

Think about that. Sony is grubbing money, by removing something from it that costs more than the thing it was designed to emulate.

There's just no pleasing some people.

A used PS3 60GB at gamestop is $350. A used PS3 at gamestop (80GB without backwards compatibility) $250. My PS3 haven't rejected a single PS2/PS1 game. Is that worth $100? FUCK YEAH!

A refurbished PS2, and controller, at gamestop, is worth $50.

250+50=300.

300 < 350.

HOW DARE SONY REDUCE THE PRICE OF THINGS


Fact: If you lived in a hypothetical universe where all PS2s owned by people caught on fire, and exploded, and where if you did not play your PS2 games somehow an evil wizard would use horrible magics on kittens, and you absolutely must save kittens by playing ps2 games...

...it's cheaper to do so now than it was when PS3s had backwards compatibility. They still MAKE PS2s, so just go out, buy a new PS2, buy your PS3 slim, and pay less money than you would have for a new BC PS3. Then console yourself with the fact that you saved kittens AND have money left for icecream.

I should use this thread as proof of life on other planets, cause on Earth, paying less money for things you want means you're NOT getting ripped off. I dunno what world ya'll come from, but it ain't THIS one.

 

[OrokuSaki]

The old backwards compatibility involved using a vestigial Emotion Engine that only served the purpose of backwards compatibility. This is different than PS2's backwards compatibility in that while PS2 used the same strategy (solder on a PS1 chipset) the actual PS1 chip served as a processing unit for sound and such. The EE used in the early PS3s, however, did nothing BUT backwards compat.

The problem was... the PS3 configuration was expensive, didn't help the PS3 be a PS3, and it didn't even work very well at being a PS2. As a result, for the amount of money they reduced the cost of the PS3 by removing the chip, you can now buy two PS2s.

Think about that. Sony is grubbing money, by removing something from it that costs more than the thing it was designed to emulate.

There's just no pleasing some people.

A used PS3 60GB at gamestop is $350. A used PS3 at gamestop (80GB without backwards compatibility) $250. My PS3 haven't rejected a single PS2/PS1 game. Is that worth $100? FUCK YEAH!

A refurbished PS2, and controller, at gamestop, is worth $50.

250+50=300.

300 < 350.

HOW DARE SONY REDUCE THE PRICE OF THINGS


Fact: If you lived in a hypothetical universe where all PS2s owned by people caught on fire, and exploded, and where if you did not play your PS2 games somehow an evil wizard would use horrible magics on kittens, and you absolutely must save kittens by playing ps2 games...

...it's cheaper to do so now than it was when PS3s had backwards compatibility. They still MAKE PS2s, so just go out, buy a new PS2, buy your PS3 slim, and pay less money than you would have for a new BC PS3. Then console yourself with the fact that you saved kittens AND have money left for icecream.

I should use this thread as proof of life on other planets, cause on Earth, paying less money for things you want means you're NOT getting ripped off. I dunno what world ya'll come from, but it ain't THIS one.

PS3: $250
PS2: $50

Not having to get up and change the channel: Priceless

 

[DracoSuave]

50 bucks to replace a remote control in convenience.

I don't know whether to throw my hands up in disgust or use them to shake yours. I'll comprimise and do both.

 

[ACman]

-snip it was getting way too big-

Tried it, didn't work can't remember why. Anyway a relative is throwing out an old computer, might put 32 bit XP on it and see where we are at.

You can actually download Windows XP Mode for Windows 7. It's on the Microsoft website.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtual-pc/download.aspx

 

[RatRace123]

Yeah it sucks but not much we can do about it. I still have all my original Xbox games, and at some point I intend to buy an original Xbox again. I stupidly made the mistake of selling it.

It's not a mistake I repeated with the PS2 or Gamecube thankfully.