No game should have a game world map readily visible

[Amaror]

I think the OP is right in some cases, like KoA: Reckoning. Although, I may have paid more attention to the environments if the camera wasn't pointed at the ground...

That is a real shame. I thank god that i played that game on the pc, where you can easily control the camera with the mouse, because the enviroments are actually really pretty in Reckoning.

 

[annoyinglizardvoice]

Immersion wise, if you are travelling in a land and you are not yet familiar with the geography, it is very conceivable that you would have a map in your hands. It is also probable that you would miss certain things while looking up and down on your map. I don't really see a problem with it.

I agree completely with this.
I also feel that the design of game worlds makes them harder to navigate than the real world, so something to aid navigation stops this difference from breaking emersion for me.

 

[Lilani]

This is especially jarring in medieval fantasy settings since GPS definitely does not exist within the fantasy universe. Dragon Age 2, I'm looking at you. And worse, you can't disable it in the game settings.

In a "realistic" fantasy universe, you also have to pee, poop, sleep (frequently), drink (frequently), eat a balanced meal 3 times a day, sharpen your swords and knives, work dents out of your armor, stitch up holes and tears in cloth, replace and repair shoes when they get worn, and you can't run for miles and miles on end. Not to mention hygiene and keeping your belongings dry and cared for.

.....I want to play a game that makes you do that...

It sounds soo tediously fun. Damn this "simulation" kick I'm on!

It could work...but the rest of the game's goals would have to be scaled down and feasible. It can't be like Skyrim where you're expected to cross the country for every mission and take on back to back dragon attacks. Maybe even take the boss model out of it--just make it some pilgrimage thing, like walking to Mordor or whatever.

 

[Lunar Templar]

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ah ... man VS wild, explains much.

thank you for the quick info

 

[Vegosiux]

This is especially jarring in medieval fantasy settings since GPS definitely does not exist within the fantasy universe. Dragon Age 2, I'm looking at you. And worse, you can't disable it in the game settings.

In a "realistic" fantasy universe, you also have to pee, poop, sleep (frequently), drink (frequently), eat a balanced meal 3 times a day, sharpen your swords and knives, work dents out of your armor, stitch up holes and tears in cloth, replace and repair shoes when they get worn, and you can't run for miles and miles on end. Not to mention hygiene and keeping your belongings dry and cared for.

.....I want to play a game that makes you do that...

It sounds soo tediously fun. Damn this "simulation" kick I'm on!

Fallout New Vegas, HC mode?

 

[-Samurai-]

This is especially jarring in medieval fantasy settings since GPS definitely does not exist within the fantasy universe. Dragon Age 2, I'm looking at you. And worse, you can't disable it in the game settings.

In a "realistic" fantasy universe, you also have to pee, poop, sleep (frequently), drink (frequently), eat a balanced meal 3 times a day, sharpen your swords and knives, work dents out of your armor, stitch up holes and tears in cloth, replace and repair shoes when they get worn, and you can't run for miles and miles on end. Not to mention hygiene and keeping your belongings dry and cared for.

.....I want to play a game that makes you do that...

It sounds soo tediously fun. Damn this "simulation" kick I'm on!

It could work...but the rest of the game's goals would have to be scaled down and feasible. It can't be like Skyrim where you're expected to cross the country for every mission and take on back to back dragon attacks. Maybe even take the boss model out of it--just make it some pilgrimage thing, like walking to Mordor or whatever.

Oh yeah. It'd have to be a stupidly long game set in multiple landscapes(Forests, jungles, deserts, mountains), and would likely be more about the journey than the combat. Imagine spending 45+ real-time hours trekking your way through a forest, only to come to the edge of it, and realize that there's a mountain range between you and your destination.

Story wise, it could be as simple as a long journey home, and end the moment you step inside your front door.

I'd play the shit out of that. Over and over.

Fallout New Vegas, HC mode?

I didn't find New Vegas too appealing. I get that it was set in the desert, but it felt too empty. The HC mode was a great start, but the rest of the game felt lackluster.

 

[Racecarlock]

What I would love to see in terms of a world map on a game is this:

You have your map, and on it are the villages, towns, cities, roads and places of note (such as a rock formation that looks like a middle finger)

If a quest giver gives you your quest, the general area where he/she/it wants you to go is marked on the map with a circle, so you have the rough idea of where you've got to go. It doesn't give you the exact idea but an extremely rough one.

There is no 'you are here' bullshit. You've got to figure out where the fuck you are and where you need to go using the map and your sense of direction and your ability to pay attention to your surroundings.

I dunno..it would be interesting to see something using this rough idea.

edit: forgot to mention, this idea would only really work if no fast travel system existed.

Red Dead Redemption? No, it doesn't exist in the main story quests, it more or less happens in the side quests you get from random people or when you take up the bounty offer for a most wanted suspect. It's pretty much what you're talking about.

I'm pretty sure most games would probably have an option to turn off the HUD and map indicators. If you really don't want to use the map, don't use it. If it automatically puts those markers in, well, if there's no way to take them out, then I agree with you, but if there is you should probably use that way. Either way, Just Cause 2 is about finished downloading (I bought in on XBLA), so I'll be playing that.

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

I prefer full maps... especially in games such as GTA and the Getaway... I preferred having the hard copy road map to learn my way around... I also like familiarising myself with a game map before playing! I always like to know where I am in the game world at all time, and the best way for this is definately a hard copy map!!

 

[octafish]

I think I'm going to sort of side with the OP here.

I think, in majority of games, there is no need for an always visible world map in the HUD, I think it's unnecessary and can take too much away from the visual impact of the game world. I think a system where you can stop, pull up a map, take a bearing from a landmark, then put the map away and continue running is the best system. Far Cry 2 comes to mind.

You can't completely do away with world maps, and i wouldnt want that to happen, but giving the player an option to take them out of the HUD would be a great thing.

Far Cry 2 did so many things right. If only the checkpoints were refreshed at dusk and at dawn. Still there is Far Cry 3 to look forward to.

 

[OldNewNewOld]

So you have problem with your concentration and everyone else who knows to play normally and look at the (mini)map only from time to time should be punished for that?

Sounds reasonable.

Captcha: love-hate
Fits perfectly. lol

EDIT:
To clarify. Unless the lack of the (mini)map and being lost in the world is part of the main mechanics of the game, or finding something is the main goal, (mini)maps should be available.

As someone mentioned the Thief series. The goal of the game was to find and steal a certain object. The lack of the (mini)map and an unclear/unfinished map are part of the game. It actually adds to the game.
But in most games removing the (mini)map would only add frustration.

EDIT2:
I have nothing against the option to disable them. Who doesn't like them should have the option to play without them. Rather simple.

EDIT3:
After reading this thread, I get the feeling that a lot of people don't know that they can explore the world even tho the map shows them to go in the opposite direction. Really guys?
Some people just don't know how to live their games.

 

[arnoldthebird]

I enjoy having map's in my games, it would be good if dev's made some sort of 'Survival' mode in which you had a map, but it was up to you to determine the rest

 

[ToastyMozart]

I think it depends on the game.
Human Revolution had a (IMO) good system. An open-able menu-map, and a waypoint showing the general direction to your objective. The lack of a minimap never hindered the experience (and even improved it for me), and the slower menu-map was handy for strategic planning, or if I got lost in Hengesha. But for an RTS, you had damn well have designed it with a minimap, or it will quickly become a problem.

In short my point is this:
In cases where a minimap would be a problem (as detailed above), use an openable macro-map or menu-map.
In most games, a map is almost universally helpful, but make it inconvenient to rely on it completely (ex: the DX:HR menu animation).