No, it isn't OK.

[Roperius]

Well, actually, we are born racist.

Actually, we are not. It's a 100% learned trait, and not even one that's been in society since time immemorial. Racism as we know it has really only been around for less than 400 years.

Racism, unfortunately is far older; see the pogrom at York (1190), the treatment of ethnic groups in the Greek world (they were xenophobes of the highest order), Roman Empire (wide-scale religious persecution), and Aztec Empire.

 

[M Rotter]

It was "I don't like homosexual." If actions occur, then that should be dealt with as needed. Trying to control thoughts, unpopular or otherwise, is wrong, not to mention practically impossible.

It is NOT OK. Yes, people are entitled to their opinions. That doesn't make them right, they're still wrong, but it's that persons' choice to be wrong.

This is self-contradictory. If people can have their own opinions, how is that "wrong"? What are you arguing against if you agree people are allowed to have their own opinions (as if they're seeking your approval)?

Thank you. I find it so amusing when people say we have to accept them for who they are, but our thoughts are wrong and terrible. Not that I care about homosexuality one way or the other-it doesn't affect my life in any way so I'm not going to get worked up about it. Of course they should be treated fairly and equally. But how dare they tell someone that what may be their initial gut reaction of fear and/or disgust, that it makes them a bad person. If you can't change the emotions that make you gay, how do they change the emotions that make them scared?

Are you kidding? No-one has said anything about a person in general being bad because of __________. However, if a person does feel fear or disgust irrationally towards homosexual persons simply because of their homosexuality, they have a problem they need to address, and are in the wrong. It's not right to be homophobic, hence the term homophobia. Being gay isn't an emotion, which is the whole point. Homophobia is an emotion, making it irrational by definition. Rational thinking people don't decide things like their feelings towards gay persons simply on banal emotions. Like, really. SCARED and THREATENED over an individual, because of their sexuality? That's clearly not common sense, it's wrong. And that insecurity harms others, and harms the insecure person also. Which is why it does need to be addressed.

People don't choose to be gay/black/women. People do choose homophobia. You are entitled to choose to be homophobic, but expect rational minded people to call you out on it for exactly what it is.

I get that you're using "homophobic" because its part of the common vernacular to describe someone who doesn't like homosexuals but since we all care about semantics im sure, a phobia is an irrational fear. Most people don't ask to be afraid of heights or pickles-which happens when nature decides to be vindictive and slightly hilarious. Which means you can think of someone who is actually homophobic as a hilarious party gimmick-but would really be just as mean as
throwing your beloved pet tarantula on an arachniphobic friend.

And yeah this is a weirdly-and not surprisingly-generalized response about something that comes down to the individual and their respective innate make-up and personal experiences. Everyone has their own general archetype in life. Can you pinpoint everything that has made you who you are today? Even if you think you can, is there ever a moment of self doubt that you can never truly objectively critique yourself because deep down you know that even the most fundamental things you believe are the case because of something beyond your control has decided for you. Can those people be irritating? Of course, but probably because they are irritating and stupid people who have no idea what the social climate is like nowadays. Or maybe they're not. Maybe they've had hours and hours of internal conflict and have come to terms with who they are.

Nothing is really evil unless it harms something else. Is that dude, who in a middle of a party declares he hates jews, hurting anyone? No, he's grossly misreading social signals to the point where he has just alienated himself from an entire room and who doesn't love that in any situation? Is the boss who pays the male worker more than the female worker wrong? Sure. The female's standard of living is less for an arbitrary reason. But chance is a part of the universe, it was chance that her manager was sexist, statistically. That's how you grow thick skin and also understand that though its fun and beneficial to wax philosophy and the collective and individual psyche,rumination is not control. I mean even you've been indoctrinated. Racism has been around a long time-and i don't know who said racism as we know it has only been around for 400 years but...what? racism as we know it? what does that even mean? Do you mean slavery? Do you mean black people in general? Do you mean racism in specific countries? It doesn't matter, because even if you ask those questions it still doesn't make sense...anyway-and good people from history were racist. I mean even some abolitionists were not as enlightened as you might think-they didn't think slavery was moral, but they still didn't want black people in their schools. It was a god-given right to subjugate some people for a myriad of different reasons. I mean think about the feudal age-we all learned it-everyone had their proper place in the world that was based on some divine code. Serfs' natural place was at the bottom. Its the same kind of thinking when groups of people enslaved other groups of people. Nowadays that's not right-which we've been told since we were young. Im not saying its wrong or right there's just no way to objectively decide.

Everyone has their prejudices, from the mundane to things like this but it all comes out to the same thing in the brain. If you catch my drift.

 

[Halceon]

[..]and some guy said something like I don't like black people, am I right? I don't like ____________ group, [..]

Well, no. It isn't OK to racist, homophobic, sexist etc. It isn't OK to dislike black people for their race, it isn't OK to be against homosexuality, and it isn't OK to think women are lesser beings than men, think all other religious options are beneath your chosen belief, and we can go on from there. It is NOT OK.

Ah, there's your problem - proportion. If I find most other skin colours aesthetically unpleasant, prefer to not be considered a valid partner by people who don't fit in my sexual preferences, believe that there are things that I'm better at than the other gender and vice versa, it doesn't make me a bigot. What it makes me is non-delusional.
Now, if I was going around claiming that this is grounds for the other group to be removed, then your argument would have some value. But as I see from your own post, somebody said they don't like something.

 

[Seneschal]

Well, about half or a little bit more than half the people here are Americans, right? They have few "common decency" laws, and anything but the most hateful bigotry is protected by freedom of speech. It's a good arrangement if your culture has thick enough skin. Plus, if you start punishing people for what they say, you may be setting precedents all the way from "hate speech" to "abrasive speech" and down to "merely annoying speech", and people stop talking for fear of getting sued.

Then again, we're still allowing half of humanity to hold opinions that are wrong, misinformed and amoral, and act on them. There's a point where this isn't just cultural myopia, when we really are right and someone else is wrong. And we respect their opinion for the sake of diversity and freedom of choice.

So, no, you cannot invade Iran to bludgeon them into admitting that gays aren't abominations. But you can think they're completely deluded, though, and you'd be right.

 

[PoliceBox63]

No, it's not okay. It is "okay" [sub]but I would use the word "acceptable"[/sub] to hold those beliefs but when you come on a public forum where you know that you are going to be offended and/or upset people then that is a poor refelction on your worth. I dislike Neo-Nazis but I wouldn't go up to them and say I hate them. Apart from the immedaitate threat to my safety it's also insulting and hurtful to hear someone say to you "Hey, you! Yeah, you! You know your whole lifestyle and everything you know and hold dear. Well I hate it!"

 

[Rachel317]

Being openly racist/sexist/homophobic/whatever is wrong, I agree. However, everyone is entitled to their opinions and, just because you don't agree with them, that doesn't make their views "wrong", because they are "right" to that person.

They are not even morally questionable, because they could be awesome people despite their negative views.

Nothing's going to change - you can't change peoples' opinions, because everyone believes what they want to believe. All you can do is keep on the path that you believe is right.

Offensive language/behaviour only exists because people continue to be offended by it. "You don't choose" to be a certain way...exactly! So to be offended by something which couldn't be controlled in the first place is like...jealousy. It's just a waste of emotion and time.

It's a vicious circle because people will continue to make stereotypical comments based on no actual knowledge of the victim of the prejudice if people are offended by it (being openly bigoted is mainly to cause offence, right?). However, people are offended by it because people continue to make these comments. It'll take a concerted effort from all sides to put an end to prejudice, but it's not going to happen.

People fear that which they cannot understand. And their first defence mechanism can be to lash out before someone else lashes out at them.

 

[Tharwen]

I agree entirely. Bigotry is simply inexcusable and unacceptable in any circumstance.

What if you're indoctrinated into bigoted beliefs?

Then you should know that your beliefs are wrong.

So... the same can't be said of religion?

None of these beliefs can ever me labelled 'more right' than any others, and giving way to one for indoctrination while letting another slip by is a perfect example of a double standard.

In my case, I oppose indoctrination as a concept.

 

[Hauntghost20]

So, I'm pretty new here, hello everyone, I'm sure you've seen me around. Anyway, I was checking out OTD forum last night, and some guy said something like I don't like black people, am I right? I don't like ____________ group, I don't recall who it was. And he said that was a legitimate opinion to have, and that it's just a preference. Others agreed with him. And I've noticed people making excuses for this type of behavior.

Well, no. It isn't OK to racist, homophobic, sexist etc. It isn't OK to dislike black people for their race, it isn't OK to be against homosexuality, and it isn't OK to think women are lesser beings than men, think all other religious options are beneath your chosen belief, and we can go on from there. It is NOT OK. Yes, people are entitled to their opinions. That doesn't make them right, they're still wrong, but it's that persons' choice to be wrong. And remember, people don't choose to be black/gay/women etc. A lot of people don't really "choose" their religious beliefs either, they are indoctrinated into them. However, bigoted beliefs against these groups is most certainly a choice.

I get tired when people make defense of such actions. People especially do it when it comes to sexuality/gender related things. Like somehow religion/"ick" factor/society/whatever bullshit they can think of makes is reasonable to be a bigot against these things. Well, someone needs to say it loud and clear. It isn't. And thinking it's acceptable and giving it a pass makes you part of the problem, because these attitudes are what causes the actions against legal citizens. There is a reason why individuals such as this are viewed negatively. It's because they are negative people, and should be seen as such.

What do you all think? Am I right or wrong? Discuss.

Yes Yes your a right people have no majour diffrences if ther black white straghit or gay or male of female they only show a small amout of diffrences the thing that has turned people like this is from 1 word STEROTYPE examples
skin color: that there rude and argoant(not true i went to school with lots of black people and they wer 1 of the nicest people i have ever met)

Gay: that ther weak and wrong(agian not true nuff said there are lots of ripped steroids manics that are gay)

Sexist: well dont need any word

 

[Booze Zombie]

I've got a friend a bit like that, I tell him how pointless his racism is and he's all like "yeah, but it's how I was raised" which I find a really thin excuse, personally.
But, I digress.

People always want to justify what they think is "right" and it's much easier for a load of people to come together and agree with each other than it is for that group of people to listen to a few going "you're wrong".
They don't want to be wrong.

 

[Dwarfman]

So, I'm pretty new here, hello everyone, I'm sure you've seen me around. Anyway, I was checking out OTD forum last night, and some guy said something like I don't like black people, am I right? I don't like ____________ group, I don't recall who it was. And he said that was a legitimate opinion to have, and that it's just a preference. Others agreed with him. And I've noticed people making excuses for this type of behavior.

Well, no. It isn't OK to racist, homophobic, sexist etc. It isn't OK to dislike black people for their race, it isn't OK to be against homosexuality, and it isn't OK to think women are lesser beings than men, think all other religious options are beneath your chosen belief, and we can go on from there. It is NOT OK. Yes, people are entitled to their opinions. That doesn't make them right, they're still wrong, but it's that persons' choice to be wrong. And remember, people don't choose to be black/gay/women etc. A lot of people don't really "choose" their religious beliefs either, they are indoctrinated into them. However, bigoted beliefs against these groups is most certainly a choice.

I get tired when people make defense of such actions. People especially do it when it comes to sexuality/gender related things. Like somehow religion/"ick" factor/society/whatever bullshit they can think of makes is reasonable to be a bigot against these things. Well, someone needs to say it loud and clear. It isn't. And thinking it's acceptable and giving it a pass makes you part of the problem, because these attitudes are what causes the actions against legal citizens. There is a reason why individuals such as this are viewed negatively. It's because they are negative people, and should be seen as such.

What do you all think? Am I right or wrong? Discuss.

I think - or at least hope - that everyone agrees with you but here's the thing. Humans are designed to descriminate. Forget about culture, right or wrong and morality and simply view the human being as another one of God's mammals. We are territorial, instinctively agressive to those outside our herd and like all mammals Instinctively wish our heritage - DNA - continues. Bearing this in mind it's no wonder the world is full of such biggoted, discrimatory souls. And guess what? You and I are one of them.

That's right we are all bigotted and discriminating in our own way. We all have phobias and steriotypes that we label all by - for good or bad. For the most part we humans have the mental and emotional maturity to look past these internal viewpoints but regardless of how far we might rise above ourselves, deep down they still exist. Afterall they are the same emotions that work out who is good looking and who isn't. Are you high on the 'food chain' or not.

To conclude let me answer your question with a question. Regardless of the other persons opinion - assuming they are doing no harm to others or not transgressing the law - is it right for you to Stereotype these people as bigots and discriminate against what they believe in, if it is your belief that they should not descriminate?

 

[Dwarfman]

Well, actually, we are born racist.

Actually, we are not. It's a 100% learned trait, and not even one that's been in society since time immemorial. Racism as we know it has really only been around for less than 400 years.

Racism, unfortunately is far older; see the pogrom at York (1190), the treatment of ethnic groups in the Greek world (they were xenophobes of the highest order), Roman Empire (wide-scale religious persecution), and Aztec Empire.

Quite true. Racisim has been around since Ug wacked Og over the head with a club cause he like Og's mate Ig. It IS something that is learned. Just like anything. But just as how you learn to like or dislike somethings, you are going to learn how to like and dislike people.

 

[Bloodstain]

It isn't ok, but it's also not ok to try and force people to think differently, all you can do is explain your side and hope for the best.

Pretty much this. Although I agree with your opinion, OP, there is nothing that makes you more "right" than them.

 

[M Rotter]

No, it's not okay. It is "okay" [sub]but I would use the word "acceptable"[/sub] to hold those beliefs but when you come on a public forum where you know that you are going to be offended and/or upset people then that is a poor refelction on your worth. I dislike Neo-Nazis but I wouldn't go up to them and say I hate them. Apart from the immedaitate threat to my safety it's also insulting and hurtful to hear someone say to you "Hey, you! Yeah, you! You know your whole lifestyle and everything you know and hold dear. Well I hate it!"

I feel like the neo-nazi wouldn't care. Why? Because he's had a long time to acclimate to the fact that people don't like his behavior. Sure his ex-neo nazi friend who is like a father to him telling him that might affect him. But any random person off the street telling him that i dont think would miff him at all. I get your example-even groups that most people abhor still have feelings and its not cool to tell anyone for any reason that they're life sucks. I hate it when i feel like im being discriminated against, why? Because being female or black is not a belief. Or being indoctrinated. Its truly something i couldnt control and youre willing to shunt aside my entire worth as a person because of random chance. Its the arbitrary nature of the thing that drives me crazy. So when it happens im not personally offended just amazed that (and interested) to how that person functions and interacts with others. My manager once, after repeated attempts to break into a technical aspect of the job where no females were present, sat me down and said "Look its not that i think girls are bad at tech work. Of course not. Ive just found that they cant keep up with the paperwork." Our department that keeps track of paperwork, financial records and accounting? Entirely female. Did it offend me? No. Its obviously completely retarted. Did i have to vent for about an hour and a half afterwards. Yes.

 

[moretimethansense]

Sometimes you can't help but be bigoted, but that doesn't make it okay.
If you don't act on your prejudices you are at least better than those that do.

I feel the same way about those with bizarre and illegal sexual fetishes, you can't help but have those feelings, but act on them and we'll have problems.

Incedently why didn't you bring this up on the other thread?
That was what it was there for.

 

[Jewrean]

Snip

People should be allowed to have any opinion they want so long as they are not harming others, harming themselves, being cruel to others (including all living things), or dehumanizing anyone.

Now, I'm not saying I'm a racist or anything but if I shared that same racist opinion then I have every right to express it. Others have every right to express that I'm a fucking idiot. Hating a different segregation (whether it be from fear, misunderstanding them, jealousy, etc) is a natural part of being a human. By hating all of those who are deemed immoral you have unwittingly put yourself in the same category as this supposed racist. That is of course if you truly hate racists.

ie:
'I hate anyone who is racist or sexist! I hate intolerant people! They don't deserve to live!'
See how hypocritical that sounded? Hate begets hate. If you truly want to put a stop to hate, well sorry... there's nothing you can do about it. It's part of life. And if you really become fanatical about it, people will hate you for being a fascist. The most sensible thing you can do is not continue the cycle of hate. Refuse to give your opinion on it. It is by sharing our opinions that humans realize just how different we can be, which of course then leads to violence in the first place.

Oh... and lastly... don't be a PC Nazi.

 

[swolf]

What if you're indoctrinated into bigoted beliefs?

Then try to fix it, or not act on them, would be my guess.

And somehow...someone will defend those opinions with "freedom of speech" and "freedom of religion". I don't know who said but I will paraphrase a quote I heard "Freedom of speech protects your right to yell 'fire' at a crowded theatre and yell 'theatre' at a crowded fire". In other words, it also protects the speech that doesnt make sense.

 

[swolf]

What if you're indoctrinated into bigoted beliefs?

Then try to fix it, or not act on them, would be my guess.

And somehow...someone will defend those opinions with "freedom of speech" and "freedom of religion". I don't know who said but I will paraphrase a quote I heard "Freedom of speech protects your right to yell 'fire' at a crowded theatre and yell 'theatre' at a crowded fire". In other words, it also protects the speech that doesnt make sense.

 

[DemonicVixen]

Agreeing with many on this thread, your right in the sense that it isnt fair to hate other people. At the end of the day we all have the same colour blood, the same organs, and all eventually come from the same place. Technically we're equal except for some reason of Evolution, some people have been born with different skin colours, deformities etc.
You cant help who you love, and people can love a woman or a man. Personally i do not see the harm in it nor can i see why people get so worked up about it.

I have gay friends, i have friends of a different race and culture. I hate watching people picking them (although they just laugh in bullies faces and tell them to GROW UP!

I might not be religious, but i do have my own beliefs, and whether it involves science, "god" or some other form of creation, at the end of the day, regardless of which you pick, we still come from the same atoms of creation.

Sadly some people cannot see that. They're scared by what they see. They dont like it if someone falls in love with someone(probably because their own relationship is non-existent or falling apart).

They seem to think that white is inferior to black. Sometimes its the other way round. Either way, that is NOT true. We ARE equal if people just open their BLIND eyes to see it and stop acting as if its all such a bad thing.

 

[Kurokami]

So, I'm pretty new here, hello everyone, I'm sure you've seen me around. Anyway, I was checking out OTD forum last night, and some guy said something like I don't like black people, am I right? I don't like ____________ group, I don't recall who it was. And he said that was a legitimate opinion to have, and that it's just a preference. Others agreed with him. And I've noticed people making excuses for this type of behavior.

Well, no. It isn't OK to racist, homophobic, sexist etc. It isn't OK to dislike black people for their race, it isn't OK to be against homosexuality, and it isn't OK to think women are lesser beings than men, think all other religious options are beneath your chosen belief, and we can go on from there. It is NOT OK. Yes, people are entitled to their opinions. That doesn't make them right, they're still wrong, but it's that persons' choice to be wrong. And remember, people don't choose to be black/gay/women etc. A lot of people don't really "choose" their religious beliefs either, they are indoctrinated into them. However, bigoted beliefs against these groups is most certainly a choice.

I get tired when people make defense of such actions. People especially do it when it comes to sexuality/gender related things. Like somehow religion/"ick" factor/society/whatever bullshit they can think of makes is reasonable to be a bigot against these things. Well, someone needs to say it loud and clear. It isn't. And thinking it's acceptable and giving it a pass makes you part of the problem, because these attitudes are what causes the actions against legal citizens. There is a reason why individuals such as this are viewed negatively. It's because they are negative people, and should be seen as such.

What do you all think? Am I right or wrong? Discuss.

Quick moment, so religious people aren't allowed to think other religions are inferior? Why the **** would they have chosen or stuck with said religion otherwise? They must believe that.

In my opinion, unless you can justify anything with logic it's invalid, so racism is out while racial profiling remains in.

 

[Fraught]

so why didn't you just post this as a comment in the thread?, you dont really have a unique or particularly interesting view on the topic, definitely not enough to carry a entire thread on what most people said in a comment.

Dear Swaki, all the forum sections are full of these kind of threads.

Well, not full, but...y'know. Populated by a few.