whether or not it's acceptable (which it isn't) you can't stop people from having opinions like this.
No, it isn't OK.
- Thread starter 101flyboy
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Hmm.
This is a difficult question, and the reason it's difficult is because to give anything other than the expected response is to essentially morally incinerate yourself.
Ah well.
Most people are racist, it's not a thing we can help. It ranges from being more scared of black people, to not wanting an Asian partner, to the typical Hollywood distrust of the English accent.
It's also not a problem.
Does anyone really care about the above mentioned thing?
If you do, it doesn't matter what race you belong to, you're puerile and should realise that instead of actively categorising ourselves into groups based on race, we should just laugh at the stereotypes that are part of each race, and treat individuals as just that. Individuals.
There are two groups when it comes to racism, and they are as follows:
Comic racism: this is when someone jokes that the black guy stole your TV, or that the white guy isn't black enough to use the phrase 'true that'. These people will tend to have friends from the ethnicities they're insulting, and don't genuinely believe what they've been saying - they use it in the same way as you'd call your friends idiots during banter.
Retarded racism: this is when people want to kill everyone of a certain ethnicity, and it's downright stupid.
Now, hopefully we've established that falling into the first group is hardly a cardinal sin, but even if you fall into the second group it's often not too bad.
And here's why:
This sort of belief is purely irrational, it's most liekly they were born/raised with/on it (except in incredibly rare cases, for example some people who happened to be of sed ethnicity burned their house down. I said rare.), and by that I mean that it is not a belief grounded in fact. Here's the rub: so long as the person realises this, they will never act on it, and more than that, they will know why they should never act on it. (And by act I do also mean speak).
So here we have two perfectly acceptable forms of 'racism', but are they even 'racism' at all. I think what has happened is we have created a false dichotomy [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FalseDichotomy], and split it into either racism, or not racism.
There are degrees - asking for white bread is not the same as being a white supremacist.
The whole issue has been blown up out of proportion by the community effect, which is a psychological effect that works as follows:
In two person groups, people are comfortable talking about taboo subjects and/or their own personal flaws, even subjects that are distasteful for most people.
In a large group, nobody can talk about these things, everyone has a strict sense of right and wrong.
The reason for this is that because we can't tell who will react to what in a group, we immediately fall into perfect morality, scoffing at and scorning the things we'd be expected to accordingly.
Now I'd have liked to come to a real conclusion after this massive rage, (mostly provoked by the OP's ending line which read: are you racist?) but I'm done ranting now.
If you can't draw your own conclusions from this, you're probably blonde.
[sub]For the record, and it's sad everyone feels obliged to post this at the end of rants like these, I'm not racist.[/sub]
This is a difficult question, and the reason it's difficult is because to give anything other than the expected response is to essentially morally incinerate yourself.
Ah well.
Most people are racist, it's not a thing we can help. It ranges from being more scared of black people, to not wanting an Asian partner, to the typical Hollywood distrust of the English accent.
It's also not a problem.
Does anyone really care about the above mentioned thing?
If you do, it doesn't matter what race you belong to, you're puerile and should realise that instead of actively categorising ourselves into groups based on race, we should just laugh at the stereotypes that are part of each race, and treat individuals as just that. Individuals.
There are two groups when it comes to racism, and they are as follows:
Comic racism: this is when someone jokes that the black guy stole your TV, or that the white guy isn't black enough to use the phrase 'true that'. These people will tend to have friends from the ethnicities they're insulting, and don't genuinely believe what they've been saying - they use it in the same way as you'd call your friends idiots during banter.
Retarded racism: this is when people want to kill everyone of a certain ethnicity, and it's downright stupid.
Now, hopefully we've established that falling into the first group is hardly a cardinal sin, but even if you fall into the second group it's often not too bad.
And here's why:
This sort of belief is purely irrational, it's most liekly they were born/raised with/on it (except in incredibly rare cases, for example some people who happened to be of sed ethnicity burned their house down. I said rare.), and by that I mean that it is not a belief grounded in fact. Here's the rub: so long as the person realises this, they will never act on it, and more than that, they will know why they should never act on it. (And by act I do also mean speak).
So here we have two perfectly acceptable forms of 'racism', but are they even 'racism' at all. I think what has happened is we have created a false dichotomy [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FalseDichotomy], and split it into either racism, or not racism.
There are degrees - asking for white bread is not the same as being a white supremacist.
The whole issue has been blown up out of proportion by the community effect, which is a psychological effect that works as follows:
In two person groups, people are comfortable talking about taboo subjects and/or their own personal flaws, even subjects that are distasteful for most people.
In a large group, nobody can talk about these things, everyone has a strict sense of right and wrong.
The reason for this is that because we can't tell who will react to what in a group, we immediately fall into perfect morality, scoffing at and scorning the things we'd be expected to accordingly.
Now I'd have liked to come to a real conclusion after this massive rage, (mostly provoked by the OP's ending line which read: are you racist?) but I'm done ranting now.
If you can't draw your own conclusions from this, you're probably blonde.
[sub]For the record, and it's sad everyone feels obliged to post this at the end of rants like these, I'm not racist.[/sub]
And who are you to deny them freedom of speech? Ofcourse racism ain't cool, but those people are still entitled to their opinions as much as you and I are.101flyboy said:
I was one of those people. It wasn't about race, it was about homosexuality. The only reason that I agreed was because I believe it makes me as bad as them if I hate them for being themselves. If gays are born gay and they can't help that, what is to say homophobics aren't the same? Now, don't get the wrong end of the stick here, I am not homophobic or anything, all I am saying is that you can't say taht one is normal and the other is not. I am not saying that homophobia is acceptable, all I am saying is that it could be like being gay, they may not be able to help it. Sure, if they get abusive and violent about it they are complete arseholes but my studies of psychology, sociology and criminology have told me not to look down on someone because of their beliefs. Once again to clarify, I am not homophobic nor am I gay, I am the party in the middle that takes no side.101flyboy said:
This is also true. It is survival of the fittest. And for many rascist people out there that's exactly what there bigotry means to them. Hitler did many horrible things to gypsies, slavs and jews because he wanted to keep the aerian bloodline pure. Once again, survival of the fittest - which also translates in the modern context of he who has the most guns.. unfortunately.joebear15 said:
definitely wrong by going thru the threads replies xDSwaki said:
OT: it's not ok, but what are you gonna do about it? people are gonna keep doing what they want cuz it's easier to do what you know, than to learn the right way. hell, even if you learn the right way what if you're surrounded by people who does not give a shit about what you just did. it'd be a useless change. waste of efforts and energy. so that's why people ain't gonna change... unless there's a big incentive to do it.
doing good, or the right thing will never be an definitive incentive for ANYONE to change. ever
I haven't read much of this thread but...
I don't like muslims/middle-easterns (you know what I mean). All they've done in the places I've lived is rape, stab and generally executing blind violence and other crimes. A friend of mine got beaten up and tried raped not long ago.
First time I got into a fight? I got assaulted by some muslims because I apparently deserved it for walking where they could see me. I was 13 at the time, and there was a lot, lot less immigrants here then. Now it's a lot more, and things like this happen more often too.
So no, sorry, I can't really say that I'm a loving beam of acceptance, because that will get me killed and my girlfriend raped.
Gays, blacks, asians etc? Can't say I've ever had a problem with any of them.
I don't like muslims/middle-easterns (you know what I mean). All they've done in the places I've lived is rape, stab and generally executing blind violence and other crimes. A friend of mine got beaten up and tried raped not long ago.
First time I got into a fight? I got assaulted by some muslims because I apparently deserved it for walking where they could see me. I was 13 at the time, and there was a lot, lot less immigrants here then. Now it's a lot more, and things like this happen more often too.
So no, sorry, I can't really say that I'm a loving beam of acceptance, because that will get me killed and my girlfriend raped.
Gays, blacks, asians etc? Can't say I've ever had a problem with any of them.
So, are they violent because they worship Allah and go to a mosque or because they're a poor ethnic minority whose youth turned to crime when faced with immigration, xenophobia and lack of jobs?Udyrfrykte said:
It's the same with the Roma where I come from. I avoid them and distrust them. Still, I know exactly where they come from, what mindset they have and what hardships they face. It's a two-way street, and justified dislike of a minority is common. What's important is understanding and perspective.
I do not agree with some posters here that say "words will never hurt me". That words have no weight is a few centuries-old notion, and thick skin is the trait of an individual, not an entire society. Advances in sociolinguistics, neurobiology and memetic theory have showed that ideas propagate at a much less conscious rate, so "hate speech" and any such verbal cruelty should very much be a punishable offense.
I'm not racist, however I dislike people who are ignorant in their religion and are not willing to even listen to argument, especially if they start making noises while you're talking, to stop you talking. That pisses me off. As to skin colour, gender, age. I barely even take notice of that when I meet people, I think that comes from the internet, as it doesn't matter here, and so therefore that's sort of made its way into the way I see people in real life. I just see their personality.
It *is* OK to think homosexuality is wrong, that black people are bad, that women are worth less than men, that Macs are decent computers, that iPads have a point, and that salt & vinegar isn't the pinnacle of crisp flavours.
What isn't OK is to force those views on others, or segregate or discriminate against people because of them.
That's the thing about tolerance. If you want people to be tolerant of other things, you've also got to be tolerant of intolerance... at least as long as it stays in their heads.
What isn't OK is to force those views on others, or segregate or discriminate against people because of them.
That's the thing about tolerance. If you want people to be tolerant of other things, you've also got to be tolerant of intolerance... at least as long as it stays in their heads.
I am also a little tired of pple using the "that's my opinion" excuse, and taking advantage of a global society where everyone is too scared to offend anyone. Everyone has a right to hold their own opinion, and no-one has the right to try to enforce changing your thoughts (whatever they may be), but acting on dangerous thoughts is wrong (Racist thoughts may not be as dangerous as murderous thoughts in themselves, but they can quickly develop to be so). And yes, treating people differently based on the colour of their skin/nationality/sexuality/gender/religion, is always wrong.
Lots of my current friends are black, but every black guy at my school was a total arse, so back then I hated THEM black guys. Think this one through though, prejudice - pre-judging - is when you judge someone before you know them, so to prejudge a race would be to pre-judge them before you meet them. So if all of the examples of black people that you had met in your life lead you to believe that ALL black people were arses, and you followed that thinking and subsequently believed that ALL black people were arses (or some other racial insult you know of), wouldn't that be racism without prejudice, does that legitimise it??? Serious question.
As for hating people, I hate fat people and stupid people. All other individuals that I hate usually belong to some manner of sub-category of stupid.
My brother in law keeps calling Chinese people 'chinks' and a Chinese takeaway a 'chinkies', which is stupid, does that mean that black people are still niggers. Of course not. I've said the word ****** around a bunch of my black friends, they know that I don't mean it as an insult, cos I'm using it in an example.
Also I'm not sexist, but I hate feminists, and I'm not a homophobic, but I hate camp people.
As for hating people, I hate fat people and stupid people. All other individuals that I hate usually belong to some manner of sub-category of stupid.
My brother in law keeps calling Chinese people 'chinks' and a Chinese takeaway a 'chinkies', which is stupid, does that mean that black people are still niggers. Of course not. I've said the word ****** around a bunch of my black friends, they know that I don't mean it as an insult, cos I'm using it in an example.
Also I'm not sexist, but I hate feminists, and I'm not a homophobic, but I hate camp people.
I would say yes. If you have religious beliefs that go against evolution for example, you should know that you're wrong on that part. There is a difference between having a faith that explains the mysteries of the universe, and having a faith that goes directly against science.Tharwen said:
In the same thread, you can have really quirky beliefs, but when it becomes bigotry, it is unacceptable. Not only is there scientific evidence that goes against bigoted remarks, but a lot of psychological and physical harm can come about from it. And it's just bad for a society to have people who think a certain demographic is scum. I really don't understand the argument you could have against that. Is it a matter of free speech? We need to have the right to think down on other people for a completely illogical reason?
Of course there must be a reason, but here (in Norway) they are given housing, money, given jobs, free education. Why aren't the blacks and asians acting out then, since they are in the same situation?Seneschal said:
To be honest I don't think too highly of Islam as a religion and their extremist ways, but that's an entirely other topic.
I can understand the whole xenophobia thing though. It's a shame, really, because the xenophobia just adds to further xenophobia if xenophobia is what is causing their behaviour.
What gives you the right to express your feelings about the bigots/homophobes/whathaveyou? They have the same right to express their feelings, thoughts and beliefs as you. As I said, this thread is full of hypocrisy. "Oppress the oppressors!" Surely that's the right way to go about doing anything.kir4 said:
I have yet to see facts that support how their opinion is wrong. Actually, I haven't seen anyone provide a definitive definition of the word wrong.