No MMORPG has done it right.

[vede]

That's why I stick to MUDs. They are great. Huge worlds, no 'hooting dickholes,' usually because there's less than a hundred total people playing, and very, very many actually require that you roleplay your character. Less people means that you can directly chat with an admin at almost any time, and you never worry about some uber character coming by and destroying your fighting grounds because he wants to, which happens because admins have more time to see what's going on and act accordingly.

They're not very 'MM,' but they've definitely got the 'ORPG' working.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

my problem with all MMOs is that there is always an optimized trategy for each class. and not only are you railroaded by game design to select it, but you are also ridiculed by your MMO peers if you express yourself in a build that isn't favored at that time.

yeah, try getting into a raid with an AoE spec Rogue.

combine that with having similar missions to every other player and you get this weird feeling that you're not really freely role playing. you feel more like a Disneyland ride on rails that's passing through the fun house.

i'm still waiting for an MMO that relies heavily on dynamic naturaly occurring user created objectives. (like player on player bounties, etc.)

 

[GideonB]

The only way an MMO can do it right is by not grinding, one time fee (what guild wars are doing), balanced combat, and user creation. BallPtPenTheif has a point with what he means but half the time an MMO is giving you the same quests for every single game. i played WoW and relized the game was boring and tacky because the game just wasn't intruguing enough to draw me in. Drift City by ijji is like a racing mmo mixed with crash into things with a point system, but that's interesting because it gives us something new to try out.

And i'm still waiting for an mmo that brings something completely new to the table that will revolutionize mmo's forever

 

[Razzle Bathbone]

If you want to roleplay, you need a real human GM. That means playing a MUD or a real (non-computer) RPG.

Edit: Actually, that's not fair. MUDs are, for all intents and purposes, real RPGs.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

If you want to roleplay, you need a real human GM. That means playing a MUD or a real (non-computer) RPG.

Edit: Actually, that's not fair. MUDs are, for all intents and purposes, real RPGs.

lol

maybe to get over that, you make a game where the storyline is based on the premise that your are playing the game you are playing. sort of like .hack but erase the fictional characters and insert your real life.

i mean if players are going to discuss the mechanics of the game world in an open fashion rather than roleplay, then why not make the game mechanics a part of the narrative?

 

[GothmogII]

Had a similar thought in the ZP Age of Conan topic being: For good or bad most MMORPG's RP related activities, in a lot of cases the RP servers, rely almost entirely on the players themselves, and you as a player. That is, I've found the roleplaying aspect comes not from the gameplay, but rather from -your- interactions with your fellow RP'ers. Whether it be World of Warcraft, Age of Conan or Everquest, these are simply the setting, the sandbox you are given to play in. Stop complaining if all you want to do is play with the sand and ignore everyone else.

Other roleplayers are what you should be looking for, granted, in many MMO's that do have RP specific servers, there is a glut of people who for whatever reason refuse to roleplay or see it as a challenge to try and disrupt others. And even further you'll often find these not very well moderated. Most of the time the onus is on you to report every instance of misconduct.
Just find a guild, a group, a place where RP'ers are know to congregate in whatever MMO your on.

 

[geldonyetich]

We could talk for hours about what constitutes a "real" RPG.

However, it would be a moot gesture that only you would care about.

Computers have taken the term "RPG" and twisted it in a way that, by accepted popular definition, has very little to do with roleplaying.

Best to abandon the label and say exactly what it is you want in the game.

 

[GideonB]

We could talk for hours about what constitutes a "real" RPG.

However, it would be a moot gesture that only you would care about.

Computers have taken the term "RPG" and twisted it in a way that, by accepted popular definition, has very little to do with roleplaying.

Best to abandon the label and say exactly what it is you want in the game.

What label? An RPG is basically leveling up these days so you can just add a level up feature and call it an RPG

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

Other roleplayers are what you should be looking for, granted, in many MMO's that do have RP specific servers, there is a glut of people who for whatever reason refuse to roleplay or see it as a challenge to try and disrupt others.

even when you do find a group of roleplayers, the game dynamics are working against the roleplayer. all that changes is the way in which the players are discussing game mechanics or they are adding frivilous social interactions.

it's not like the roleplaying between two players creates it's own unique events or series of quests.

 

[boardman1000]

if people really want an actual RPG where players refer to the tank as the actual class, warrior paladin etc. then they should just go eat shit and die. thats not going to happen. in a perfect world of physically disfigured acne ridden peons who enjoy wasting their lives in front of the computer screen for hours on end this could theoretically happen. but most people who play "mmorpergers" develop some sort of self esteem and no longer use the proper vernacular of the mythical or futuristic setting where they say "shiny" for good or "flogging" for beaten to an inch of your life. also people LIKE CAPS LOCK BECAUSE THEY THINK ITS THE FAST LANE TO COOL TOWN. no. blame the game developers for not creating some sort of translation scheme that changes whatever racist garbage you have to say into the appropriate lexicon of the game. for example, if Blizzard did that all the people saying, "god damn jews you fucking ninja'd my epic blah dee blah..." would turn into, "i say, that fiend hath pinched my treasure." asses

 

[GideonB]

if people really want an actual RPG where players refer to the tank as the actual class, warrior paladin etc. then they should just go eat shit and die. thats not going to happen. in a perfect world of physically disfigured acne ridden peons who enjoy wasting their lives in front of the computer screen for hours on end this could theoretically happen. but most people who play "mmorpergers" develop some sort of self esteem and no longer use the proper vernacular of the mythical or futuristic setting where they say "shiny" for good or "flogging" for beaten to an inch of your life. also people LIKE CAPS LOCK BECAUSE THEY THINK ITS THE FAST LANE TO COOL TOWN. no. blame the game developers for not creating some sort of translation scheme that changes whatever racist garbage you have to say into the appropriate lexicon of the game. for example, if Blizzard did that all the people saying, "god damn jews you fucking ninja'd my epic blah dee blah..." would turn into, "i say, that fiend hath pinched my treasure." asses

you must be real ****ing mad to say that about RPG makers now wouldn't you. Blame Blizzard for this because they made that style of play EXTREMELY popular

 

[GothmogII]

Other roleplayers are what you should be looking for, granted, in many MMO's that do have RP specific servers, there is a glut of people who for whatever reason refuse to roleplay or see it as a challenge to try and disrupt others.

even when you do find a group of roleplayers, the game dynamics are working against the roleplayer. all that changes is the way in which the players are discussing game mechanics or they are adding frivilous social interactions.

it's not like the roleplaying between two players creates it's own unique events or series of quests.

-_-

So...let's say we've got this adventurer. Heimmy McStotts. If we go by an RPG as taking into consideration -only- the questing and adventuring. That's all that matters? All poor Heimmy is is a sword with a bag of meat attached? Where go Heimmy's days at the local tavern, where's the friendly chat with his local tailor? Where's that fishing trip gone?

Not everyone has to be the hero. Or go out looking for loot. Hell, though I prefer the framework that an MMO provides, given enough imagination and patience you can run an RPG of MSN if you like. And, why limit yourself to 'two people'? I mean, why are social interactions 'frivilous'? Because you have you character acting as a y'know, real person. (well in the context of how -they- would act in game + your own sensibilities).

I get what your saying I think, you want to feel...important in the scheme of the game, like something you have done had made some impact on the game world. But think, how can this be accomplished in such a way, that -everyone- who plays can also enjoy their own experience of this. Given the populations of most MMO's this seems entirely unrealistic, and thus why I think this has to come from the players themselves. And indeed, from my own experiences, I'm certainly more proud in having taken part in player made events than anything the games themselves have provided. Sorry...I'm just getting a little tetchy.

if people really want an actual RPG where players refer to the tank as the actual class, warrior paladin etc. then they should just go eat shit and die. thats not going to happen. in a perfect world of physically disfigured acne ridden peons who enjoy wasting their lives in front of the computer screen for hours on end this could theoretically happen. but most people who play "mmorpergers" develop some sort of self esteem and no longer use the proper vernacular of the mythical or futuristic setting where they say "shiny" for good or "flogging" for beaten to an inch of your life. also people LIKE CAPS LOCK BECAUSE THEY THINK ITS THE FAST LANE TO COOL TOWN. no. blame the game developers for not creating some sort of translation scheme that changes whatever racist garbage you have to say into the appropriate lexicon of the game. for example, if Blizzard did that all the people saying, "god damn jews you fucking ninja'd my epic blah dee blah..." would turn into, "i say, that fiend hath pinched my treasure." asses

I wouldn't expect you to either But, you've got to understand, an RP server is there for -RP'ers-, that's why they're -seperate-, just as you wouldn't like an RP coming onto a Normal or PvP style server and expecting you to roleplay, why you you expect to go onto an RP server and not? But, as it stands, that's just what far far too many do.

 

[AmrasCalmacil]

Other roleplayers are what you should be looking for, granted, in many MMO's that do have RP specific servers, there is a glut of people who for whatever reason refuse to roleplay or see it as a challenge to try and disrupt others.

even when you do find a group of roleplayers, the game dynamics are working against the roleplayer. all that changes is the way in which the players are discussing game mechanics or they are adding frivilous social interactions.

it's not like the roleplaying between two players creates it's own unique events or series of quests.

-_-

So...let's say we've got this adventurer. Heimmy McStotts. If we go by an RPG as taking into consideration -only- the questing and adventuring. That's all that matters? All poor Heimmy is is a sword with a bag of meat attached? Where go Heimmy's days at the local tavern, where's the friendly chat with his local tailor? Where's that fishing trip gone?

Not everyone has to be the hero. Or go out looking for loot. Hell, though I prefer the framework that an MMO provides, given enough imagination and patience you can run an RPG of MSN if you like. And, why limit yourself to 'two people'? I mean, why are social interactions 'frivilous'? Because you have you character acting as a y'know, real person. (well in the context of how -they- would act in game + your own sensibilities).

I get what your saying I think, you want to feel...important in the scheme of the game, like something you have done had made some impact on the game world. But think, how can this be accomplished in such a way, that -everyone- who plays can also enjoy their own experience of this. Given the populations of most MMO's this seems entirely unrealistic, and thus why I think this has to come from the players themselves. And indeed, from my own experiences, I'm certainly more proud in having taken part in player made events than anything the games themselves have provided. Sorry...I'm just getting a little tetchy.

... What he/she said. There's a name for people who immiediatly thrust themselves into the position of the 'protagonist' in an MMO, they're called Mary Sue.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

Not everyone has to be the hero. Or go out looking for loot. Hell, though I prefer the framework that an MMO provides, given enough imagination and patience you can run an RPG of MSN if you like.

and i think that brings up an important point. why can't we make the crafting experience so robust that it attracts players to be committed tavern owners and tailors?

we don't need NPCs if we can outsource the role to a game player. oddly enough the game to come closest to this goal, was Puzzle Pirates. in Puzzle Pirates you require a certain number of crew members in order to work your ship, but obviously everybody wants to be a captain. so where do you get crew members who don't want their own ship?

easy, they had free trial memberships and those players were used as a slave class to perform ship duties, which was fine by them because ship duties were done via puzzle games. so while i was beating a tetris-like game during my lunch break, i was actually pumping water out of the bilge for Captain Ahab.

a brilliant idea

 

[Whoracle]

On that note I'd like to repost a draft for an MMORPG that i began somewhen last year. It seems to adress some of the issues you (and me as well) seem to have with current MMORPGs.

http://home.arcor.de/sdsgilde/msorpg/oMSORPGe%20Concept.txt

Edit: And scrap that idea about anti-cheating with the checksums and all. I'm told it won't work.

 

[Alex_P]

If you want to roleplay, you need a real human GM. That means playing a MUD or a real (non-computer) RPG.

Edit: Actually, that's not fair. MUDs are, for all intents and purposes, real RPGs.

You don't need a GM at all.

-- Alex

 

[geldonyetich]

You don't need a GM at all.

I'm going to say I agree along the lines of not needing a GM to roleplay -- sure, you can play pretend all you want on your own. However, in a multiplayer environment, a GM is a very useful control to help enforce roleplaying.

That's ultimately where MMORPGs (even on "roleplay" servers) have difficulty. Without some kind of enforcement - or at least incentive - many (perhaps even most) players won't bother to stay in character.

 

[Danny Ocean]

Some of you guys (if you're willing to risk it) should try second life for a 3-D roleplay thing. It's laggy as fuck though, but you can do and be whatever you like once you get your head around the content creation tools.

 

[AmrasCalmacil]

Awesome system. I don't like the instanced areas or perma-death much though.

 

[PEWPEWGreenLaser]

The key, imnsho, is cohesive story design. So far, the best example of this that I have seen is the Draenei starting zone in WoW (right up until the last boss, which, IMO, should have been a 20-man lvl 20 raid... but that's beside the point.) Quest mechanics aside (Go here, kill X, bring me Y), you're actually on an adventure to help your people. From level 1 to level 20, you're doing something "real", not just killing boars.

I'm sure there are others, but I don't play a lot of MMOs. 60 bucks and then 10-15/mo? No thanks.