No Right Answer: America's Greatest Obsession Ever

[Jackel86]

I think the problem is that we are obsessed with these things in unhealthy ways. Violence is conflict, so somewhat necessary for compelling storytelling, but we have taken it to a repulsively fetishistic level. Every show or movie has to go further than the last. Remember what the old Law & Order show was like? Every episode wasn't a multiple rape/homicide case. And the torture-porn movies are out of control (Saw 2 and on, Hostel, the new Evil Dead). For all the fear mongering about children not knowing how to differentiate between video game violence and real violence, I think people have forgot that adults have a seriously unhealthy relationship with it as well.

As for sex, it's the fact that we obsessed with it somehow being wrong that makes it unhealthy. There is nothing wrong with the human body or sex. It's normal and natural. But we act like it's a big sin. And the unrealistic body image problem has little to do with sex. It's more of an amorphous "you are a worse human being if you can't be this" message, quite disconnected from sex most of the time, and photoshop/editing/makeup has a lot to do with it.

Just my opinions.

 

[Olas]

I can tell you what it looks like from outside:
That you're scared as hell of sex and idolize violence.

Yep, that's basically how it works here.

The media in the US seems to glorify it though. "Shoot up a school and get famous!"

WOAH WOAH WOAH!!!! No, we do not glorify violence against innocent people, especially not when it's domestic. Shootings and shit like that freaks us out as much as anyone. We like watching fictional violence in media, but it's rarely being glorified.

The point of the 2nd Amendment is to prevent Syrian levels of brutality from happening in the first place. Sure, we're not facing British tyranny but what kind of voice to the people have if the government decides that freedom of speech doesn't apply anymore?

Ya, because that's totally a realistic concern. We can't even keep weed illegal anymore, I think your first amendment is safe.
[/quote]

 

[Elijah Newton]

Big up to Chris and Kyle for the call to not rank this with winners and losers and instead to invite debate. Well done, gents.

I can tell you what it looks like from outside:
That you're scared as hell of sex and idolize violence.

Yeah. I'm on the inside and it looks that way from here, too. It's not the way things are, of course, nor can I say I know anyone who thinks that being scared of sex and idolizing violence is a state they want to attain, but it does seem to be the way our fictions work. Off the cuff I'd say it's because it's nice to simplify complex things. I don't know that this explains the sex-fear (beyond it being too deep to simplify, maybe, and therefore should just be ignored), but it does cover a lot of what happens with violence.

I'd argue there's some bleed over from this treatment in fiction to how things are handled IRL, too. I'm not really down with arguments that lean towards desensitization but do think there's something to be said for encountering situations that only have a personal precedent in fiction and then being completely unprepared for how to deal with reality.

The media in the US seems to glorify it though. "Shoot up a school and get famous!"

WOAH WOAH WOAH!!!! No, we do not glorify violence against innocent people, especially not when it's domestic. Shootings and shit like that freaks us out as much as anyone. We like watching fictional violence in media, but it's rarely being glorified.

I know what you're getting at : mass murderers who shoot up schools aren't held up as good people and glorified. What Olas said, though, was 'get famous,' and he's totally on the mark. Our media absolutely makes those murderers famous. Within hours we know the clothes they wore, the games they played, the music they listen to. Who else, outside of the entertainment industry (and arguably polititians), gets that kind of publicity in our country?

Captcha : Good for nothing. Hmmm.... War... unh... good god, y'all.

 

[Olas]

WOAH WOAH WOAH!!!! No, we do not glorify violence against innocent people, especially not when it's domestic. Shootings and shit like that freaks us out as much as anyone. We like watching fictional violence in media, but it's rarely being glorified.

There's covering a story, then there's every gruesome detail being explored and sent over and over again.
That's what I mean by glorifying it. These are the weapons he used, he shot this many times, there were this many victims, this many of them died, here's the killers past, here are his hobbies, here's what his mom, dad and neighbors think, this is where he was born and so on.

The biggest shock I got about Breivik is not the amount of people he killed or even that it could happen in Scandinavia, but the media coverage and the amount of detailed attention it got.
It's not that this information is uncovered, but it's the fact that we're exposed to it for weeks, every hour of the day.

If it's not perverse glorification, I don't know what it is :/

It's not glorification, people can be fascinated with something without glorifying it. People like James Holmes are among the most hated in our culture. You think historians who do research on the holocaust glorify it?

 

[KaZuYa]

Guns.

By far the biggest and most dangerous American obsession, You have a multi billion dollar industry who are selling guns to any and everyone all based on the biggest and obvious con ever.

It's written into the constitution so it's the be all and end all, I mean come on guys that's the bullshit religion pulls, disregard common sense and any inklings of humanity all because it's written down and your politicians say anyone attacking it is un-American. They aren't doing that for your sake they are doing it to protect the money which fills their pockets.

Ignoring the debate about American military action overseas, Look at Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting. During that attack, 20 first-grade children aged six and seven were killed. Yet your politicians would rather that happen again than ban guns its sick and unbelievable to the rest of the world. People try to say it only happened because the kid was mentally disturbed and it's not gun ownership but the checks done for said ownership. Again utter bullshit fuelled by the Gun companies, Humans are not predictable, profiling doesn't work and people can snap at any point, it's access to guns that is the problem.

We have guns to protect ourselves from a tyrannical government. Don't think that's a legit issue? Let's take a look at the NSA snooping on everyone's phone records, or how the Boston police raided several homes without warrants. Those things happened just this year.

It's the tyrannical government who's selling you those guns and defending your right to own them, but then what your talking about is the even bigger con "democracy", it doesn't exist.

I would like an an example of the US government selling me guns because that has never happened in my experience unless you're talking about the fast and furious scandal. And where does democracy not exist? Mind you, the US is a republic but I'd just like some clarification of the point you're trying to make.

The US government doesn't manufacture or sell guns per say but they create the infrastructure for those guns to be sold, they give power to organisations such as the NRA who are nothing but PR machines for gun companies.

There is no country in the world which has true democracy in the sense it was created by the ancient greeks. While you think you have a choice you really don't, You are told who you can vote for, people selected by committee under the control of the elite ruling class, and when it eventually comes down to polling day you only have two viable choices Democrat or Republican, deliberately polarised so it limits your choice further to no choice at all but in reality they both serve the same rich elite.

If you truly believe voting for someone you didn't chose, who is completely out of touch with the unwashed masses who doesn't represent what you stand for but is simply the lesser of two evils every five years is democracy then good for you.

 

[Lightknight]

I didn't see a clear argument proving that viewing violence translates into a problem. Sexual issues resulting from porn and other such unrealistic sources has proven to have a myriad of significant negatives born out of a lack of education. The resolution to this kind of topic is to improve education about sex despite our cultural awkwardness towards it.

I don't know how normal violence is in the US. I know that my country frowns upon it in all cases and the one who commits criminal violence is seen as immature or some sort of lowlife.
Basically idiots who can't resolve their issues in any other way than using their fists.

The media in the US seems to glorify it though. "Shoot up a school and get famous!"

You guys seem sort of desensitized. Not because of games, movies or books, but it's not as hated or shocking as a bit of public skin is, in the news.

There's a signifcant misconception in other countries regarding violence in America. We just have a much more reporters on the ground starving for a story while also putting out movies that are very violent. In reality we're generally within about 2 or 3 incidents per 100,000 with countries like the U.K. where countries are concerned. Homicide, for example, the U.K. is a respectable 1.2 (Europe is a 3.5) whereas the US is 4.8 per 100,000. Russia is 10.2 and Honduras is the king of murders at 91.6 per 100,000 (nearly .01 chance per year that you'll get murdered!). Like Europe, we have states that have a very different homicide rate than others as well. Generally our border states have the worst numbers and Louisiana is simply awful. But as a whole, the US isn't significantly different and violent crimes have gone down while violence in all forms of media has gotten more graphic. The slightly higher violent crimes may be more closely related to our war on drugs, immigration and other such nonsense moreso than just regularly more violent people. We also have some of the longest borders in the world. But when you're talking about differences of .001's, it's not a huge difference.

We do have a puritanical view on sex and that's certainly part of the problem. It's actually the reason why there's a significant lack of information on the subject of sex due to cultural stigma surrounding the topic. This can all be tracked back to the works of Augustine who had a particular problem with it. It's one of the reasons why there is so little information about sex. It is still largely taboo to talk about and that's something that needs to change for the health of our society.

 

[Evil Smurf]

I'd have thought that answer would be freedom, freedom to shoot up a school, freedom to have phones tapped, freedom to cheeseburger etc.

 

[Jenny Jones]

OMFG! Evil Smurf that is the cutest avatar picture ever!!

OT: I think America is more obsessed with violence than sex, as someone said earlier, it's so common in media it's almost white noise. While sex (not romance) is relatively scarce. I'd say we all think about sex a lot more than violence especially in real life as there's more detrimental consequences to acts of violence but finding someone attractive and having sex with them consensually is fantastic. We also tend to think or fantasise about sex more as we're always driven to breed as it's more or less the end purpose of us (in a primal animalistic way), violence is optional and most people will avoid it if not required for survival.

*break*
Evil Smurf that cute kitten is REALLY distracting in cuteness!!
*resume*

As per the show name I don't think there's a right answer but I think it has more to do with the vagueness of the question, lack of parameters and definition of the question than a lack of answer. Going by media content, violence. If we could register what people think about the most in a 24hr period it will be clearly sex.

 

[Tono Makt]

Going to have to go with "Sex". Americans are obsessed with sex and sexuality. Violence is simply a part of the culture, with low level violence being essential for most visual entertainment, be it simple slapstick comedy (both "real" and animated) to complex narratives based on violence (every cop show, most shows about ER doctors). One of the most prevalent American Myths is the Myth of the Gun; the Gun = Power to Resist Tyranny. That's just what America is.

Sex, on the other hand, is something that America has forbidden since centuries before it's inception. It's rooted in the religious fear of sexuality and the need to control it, to keep it out of sight and out of mind. Now that the religious power in America has faded to a shadow of its former power, sex is out in the open and Americans just don't know how to deal with it. In many ways when it comes to sex, America is like a 14yr old boy who's got a supply of hand lotion and a Costco cube of tissue paper, and whose parents have let him move into the near sound proofed basement. You just know he's down there wasting box after box, giggling with glee while there's a small part of his brain that keeps chanting "Chafing! Chafing! Chafing!" but so far, so good!

 

[Nurb]

Violence is the only thing that distracts innocent children from sex, so that's perfectly ok

Rated "M"... For "Minor"

cap Bunny Rabbit

EDIT: Oh c'mon, you snuck in more "Nice guy" debate by saying sex in advertizing and sexual clothing as the reason for it?

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I know for once, just once, I'd like to see a cover of a Cosmopolitan magazine (no I don't read it, but you see it in the grocery store checkouts all the time) that didn't have the word 'sex' on it. "Have the Best Sex Ever" "Sizzling Sex Secrets" "Hot Summer Sex" and so on and so on. You know, all this shallow emphasis on performance is really disheartening esp. for me whose never had sex. In fact it's really frightening for someone like me whose never had it!

 

[Darknacht]

Sex sells better than violence, its the greater obsession.

 

[leviadragon99]

Gonna have to say it's really more of a competition between food and violence, given that sex is most often hidden away as if it's something to be ashamed of. Game of thrones having it and being proud about it was such a novelty that it was actually brought up.

Plus y'know, Americans and guns so the violence in the media has a far more damaging real life parallel even if there isn't a direct cause-effect link, it still shows that the culture itself is inundated with way too much violence.

 

[thisbymaster]

I think the biggest misconception in this video is that these two things are separate. They are in fact the same thing. Violence is there to get sex.

 

[teamcharlie]

I'll bite. Violence: pretty much always bad. You intentionally hit somebody under anything except very special circumstances (for example martial arts training between people who know what they're doing and have precise control, two man-men best friends having a bromantic and non-serious slap fight, etc.) and you've done something horrible.

Sex, on the other hand, is not nearly so clear-cut. The worst part about it seems to be the prevalent idea that being in any way sexual somehow always harms a woman, that a woman is always definitionally being exploited by either having sex with somebody or being looked at in too sexual a fashion (generally speaking if the partner/viewer in question is a man it tends to set off this alarm much more readily). That men take/buy/rent, women give/sell, and if women render sex too cheaply then they're being taken advantage of. This alongside the underlying assumption that sex is always solely an economic exchange would seem to imply that the only women who don't get taken advantage of are prostitutes, porn stars or golddiggers; which I find questionable at best.

Gonna go out on a limb here: it is possible for a two people to want to have sex with each other and for it to be a nice experience for both of them. It is possible for a woman to be looked at in an appreciative way in regards to her sexuality without also being debased. But while there is a nice way to bone somebody you care about as thoroughly as you can, there is no nice way to punch somebody you care about as thoroughly as you can. The idea that there is a nice, good, noble way to beat another human to death is, from my perspective at least, a clearly much more damaging thing than an especially focused interest in sexytimes.

 

[Lyvric]

I think it all comes down to context and how it's being used.
sex - pleasure/life, great. Objectification/defacing/falsification, not so great
violence - plot/venting frustration, great. Objectification/over-glorification/depression not so great

violence and sex together I think is the greatest, but how often it goes together without basis.

 

[Paragon Fury]

Ah, Jessica Rabbit. How many young minds has that woman forever touched with her curves?

 

[ImSkeletor]

Guns.

By far the biggest and most dangerous American obsession, You have a multi billion dollar industry who are selling guns to any and everyone all based on the biggest and obvious con ever.

It's written into the constitution so it's the be all and end all, I mean come on guys that's the bullshit religion pulls, disregard common sense and any inklings of humanity all because it's written down and your politicians say anyone attacking it is un-American. They aren't doing that for your sake they are doing it to protect the money which fills their pockets.

Ignoring the debate about American military action overseas, Look at Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting. During that attack, 20 first-grade children aged six and seven were killed. Yet your politicians would rather that happen again than ban guns its sick and unbelievable to the rest of the world. People try to say it only happened because the kid was mentally disturbed and it's not gun ownership but the checks done for said ownership. Again utter bullshit fuelled by the Gun companies, Humans are not predictable, profiling doesn't work and people can snap at any point, it's access to guns that is the problem.

We have guns to protect ourselves from a tyrannical government. Don't think that's a legit issue? Let's take a look at the NSA snooping on everyone's phone records, or how the Boston police raided several homes without warrants. Those things happened just this year.

It's the tyrannical government who's selling you those guns and defending your right to own them, but then what your talking about is the even bigger con "democracy", it doesn't exist.

I would like an an example of the US government selling me guns because that has never happened in my experience unless you're talking about the fast and furious scandal. And where does democracy not exist? Mind you, the US is a republic but I'd just like some clarification of the point you're trying to make.

The US government doesn't manufacture or sell guns per say but they create the infrastructure for those guns to be sold, they give power to organisations such as the NRA who are nothing but PR machines for gun companies.

There is no country in the world which has true democracy in the sense it was created by the ancient greeks. While you think you have a choice you really don't, You are told who you can vote for, people selected by committee under the control of the elite ruling class, and when it eventually comes down to polling day you only have two viable choices Democrat or Republican, deliberately polarised so it limits your choice further to no choice at all but in reality they both serve the same rich elite.

If you truly believe voting for someone you didn't chose, who is completely out of touch with the unwashed masses who doesn't represent what you stand for but is simply the lesser of two evils every five years is democracy then good for you.

That is not even remotely how it works. Firstly it's 4 years. Secondly the major republican and democrat are chosen through primary elections. And lastly, YOU DON'T HAVE TO VOTE FOR EITHER OF THEM! My sister voted Libertarian in the last election. So no you do not have to pick between the lesser of two evils.