No Right Answer: Best Animation Style Ever

[CarlsonAndPeeters]

This topic was WAY too broad to actually debate. They were just coming up with points that, while valid, never fit within a debate topic. So, as usual, pretty dumb, dull, and unfunny.

But Miyazaki is incredible...

 

[General Michi]

Even removing anime from the equation, "Spirited Away" is my all time favorite movie. It has none of the stereotypes commonly associated with anime and is just generally a very heart warming film. If I had to suggest something to Dan that would be it.

It does have some crazy strange moments but in the context of the movie they make sense and it's never blown way over the top like in Akira or anything. Everything is from the child's perspective so it can be forgiven if things go astray. Give it a shot man, even if you don't like it I imagine it would be way more appealing than what you're used to

If you can get behind that then I would also suggest Ergo Proxy, it's a series of roughly 15 episodes and the only time that I can remember it going into WTF-ville is, again, in an episode centered around the child.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

@Dan: Elfen Lied, partly cause its good, partly cause there's non of the sweat drops and such you hate, and partly cause its short clocking in at 13 eps or so.

and

Vampire Hunter D, the first one. a good, but bloody anime flick

other wise :/ really ... the style that brought us forgettable crap like SPONGE BOB won .... -.- no matter how crappy the anime there's always an over arcing plot, (unless your FLCL or The Excel Saga*) also, Akira and DBZ suck, so it little wonder why Dan doesn't like anime ...

Spoiler: *

stay away from the excel saga, it will make you dumber. if you want a dumb, doesn't really go anywhere anime that wont hurt your head, FLCL, or magical shopping arcade abinabashi both manage funny with out being retarded

Elfen Lied?

Seriously? You mean the series with so much fan service of young characters that it borders on some very dodgy territory?

I like Elfen Lied, it was a good series, but it's hardly a suggestion for someone who hates tradional anime tropes.

 

[Punch You]

A huge point that was overlooked was that anime came about because of Disney cartoons. So western animation, in a sense, created what we know as Anime today.
Probably, would have come about on its own but the fact remains.

That's not really relevant to deciding which style is overall better. For example, Super Mario 64 came out long before Ratchet & Clank, and probably influenced how it was made. Does that automatically mean Super Mario 64 is the better game? No, you'd have to experience both. Their debate ignores the origins of both styles and instead focuses on content and quality.

When comparing a baby's crying or Mozart's Requieum in D minor Dies Irae, you don't say "Oh, well I'll keep in mind that the fact that crying babies have existed since long before Mozart, and probably influenced him as well, when deciding which is better." You instead, say "Gee, this baby is really getting on my nerves. Time to blast Dies Irae all up in this *****."

 

[Scrustle]

Awesome debate. One of the best you guys have done. But there a few things that I think should be brought up about what you guys said.

Firstly, Howl's Moving Caste was based on a book by a Welsh author, so it's based on western mythology. Several of Studio Ghibli's are based on western mythology, like the new film based on The Borrowers.

Also, what about Genndy Tartakovsky? He's made plenty of animation that isn't cliche and childish and really pushes the envelope, like Samurai Jack. Western animation isn't just Disney and Pixar re-hashing the same old princess stories over and over.

 

[nintendo414]

Watch Another tell me you hate Anime.

 

[Raijha]

Heh, the most obvious was clearly almost anything directly done by Miyazaki. Really, really can't go wrong there.

But to be honest, Puella Magi Madoka Magica. It had a great art style, and it seems to start out as a simple, clear cut magical girl anime. But then it completely surprises you in a bunch of ways, and goes pretty in depth into human behavior, and a lot more serious and deep issues then you would expect from an anime of its "type" Its one of my personal favorites, and despite it still having some of the things typical to anime, I would still strongly suggest it.

and yea, technically Digimon was an anime, hell, theres even a Digimon anime series STILL running now, Xros Wars is going strong!

 

[Soviet Heavy]

You were arguing content, not animation styles. Two different things. From an objective standpoint, the majority of Anime works off of budgets far lower than western animation, and it really starts to show.

You can argue content all you want, but when it comes down to the mechanics of actual movement and fluidity, the average western cartoon is far more likely to move than the average anime series.

Visual design does factor into animation, as supremely detailed models are hard to render in fluid animation 100% of the time. This is where the anime money shots come from, where an episode will being fairly mediocre in terms of movement until an action scene happens, where you can see what the budget was actually being pumped into.

I'm not saying that Anime is somehow worse than western animation. I've seen shows I liked. However, I will challenge anyone who purports anime to be superior to western because of content. Not because Western is better, but because often the people who make that statement are talking out of their ass.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Not gonna watch this one it seems. Dans nothing but a worthless troll.

If you did watch it, you would see that they both make snipes at each other, but both also have valid points.

 

[Lumzdas]

Watch Usagi Drop - it's an anime about a man raising a girl he adopted. One of the most heartwarming animes I have ever seen. You wont see any of your mentioned cliches and it has a beautiful artstyle.

 

[Azuaron]

There's the whole Anime is not a genre, it's a medium argument (Which applies to western animation too)
So when somebody says "I don't like Anime" they think they're saying "I don't like Si-fi" when what they're actually saying is "I don't like movies"

Obviously neither one of them should have won because there is No Right Answer but Dan just argued poorly.

Some people don't like movies. Or books. Or video games. Personally, I don't like drawn animation in general. I will tolerate it if it's awesome, but anything animated (east or west) already starts in a hole for me.

Anime I tend to like even less, and I'll tell you why:

All the stupid meta emotional ticks that most anime use (sweat drop, giants when yelling, etc.). I can be watching an anime and actually enjoying it, but as soon as the female lead pulls a giant hammer out of her ass to beat the male lead with, I turn it off and never return (come on, why doesn't she use that thing when being assaulted by the villain?)

On that note, I've never been a fan of the "woman who berates men into submission even when they don't deserve it" character, which anime tends to be rife with. It can be done well when that's taken as a character flaw for that one character (Nynaeve in Wheel of Time), but when every woman in an anime is this character, they're just being lazy and annoying. Same for the "angry woman traveling with two guys, one straight-laced, the other wild" group.

When I'm watching a movie/tv show, I don't want to read. If I wanted to read, I'd read a book, which I do. Often. In fact, I prefer books over visual media, but I can't always be reading. When I'm watching something, I'm usually doing something else as well (usually programming). And this doesn't work if there are subtitles.

The pacing is usually too slow. I have a similar problem with most British productions (although, this has been changing in recent years). Yes, I'm someone who reads the Wheel of Time books, and I find the pacing of anime too slow.

All that being said, I love Hellsing. I've been getting into Gunslinger Girl (even though it's pacing is slow AND it's subtitled). I remember enjoying Trigun years ago, but I don't think I could watch it again. Cowboy Bebop was okay (though, Toys in the Attic FTW). Claymore was pretty good.

 

[RaikuFA]

Not gonna watch this one it seems. Dans nothing but a worthless troll.

If you did watch it, you would see that they both make snipes at each other, but both also have valid points.

Whats Dans argument? " ITS FROM JAPAN NOT AMERICA THEREFORE ITS BAD!!!"

 

[orangeapples]

The only thing that makes anime hard to watch and why people think it is immature is the amount of ecchi that Anime has to deal with. An example I like to use is Sekirei. The story itself is not that bad. The problem is that if someone walks in as I'm watching Sekirei, they're going to think I'm watching something else completely. So much of it caters to the horny otaku that it makes it difficult for regular people who just want to watch a good story without that awkwardness to just jump in.

And yes, Trigun is an awesome anime. Definitely worth watching.

 

[emeraldrafael]

Im kinda surprised dan doesnt like DBZ but then again i guess that would depend on the episodes hes seen.

Also i dont think disney princess films would work in a collective culture like those fo the east, so you cant really take and apply them there. its easier to do here in the us, and the west because were more individualistic so youre allowed to go out and do your own thing.

anyway, I like shows from both, but I enjoy most anime cause its more not really adult but grown up oriented. Cartoons I see today for the most part are very simplistic and outside of a few shows I look back at with nostalgia, i have a hard time sitting and watching cartoons that arent anime like in style cause I get through about half the half of an episode (thats what seven minutes) and think this is stupid.

Of coures ive seen anime that fall into this category but tehyre lesser in number from what ive seen.

EDIT: and dan should try out speed grapher.

 

[DigitalSushi]

I'll be honest I'm not really into Eastern Anime myself much like CameraDan, but there are a couple that I really love because my rule of "loving things that are good regardless of what they represent" trumps the fanboy regulatory body (rules of fanboyism is an official legislation now you see)

CameraDan the CameraMan needs to watch the original Gforce, in the US it was called "Battle of the Planets", it was poorly edited for the English speakers so you need to see the subbed not dubbed version.

And Redline, Redline is the answer to any animation answer
Whats the best looking animated film?, Redline
Whats the most exciting animated film?, Redline

See, two whole answers!, that means its foolproof!


The film is 100% hand drawn, including transparency and lighting effects, I urge everyone to buy this film on BluRay (it looks good on DVD, but it's utterly stunning in proper HD)

I do love No Right Answer, it should be the poster boy shown to Internet Warriors on how to argue and debate without resorting to fisticuffs!.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Not gonna watch this one it seems. Dans nothing but a worthless troll.

If you did watch it, you would see that they both make snipes at each other, but both also have valid points.

Whats Dans argument? " ITS FROM JAPAN NOT AMERICA THEREFORE ITS BAD!!!"

Ah no. He even went on to explain that of the anime he has watched, he's been unimpressed. He says that he is willing to give other shows that he hasn't seen a shot. If he likes them, he likes them. If he doesn't, he doesn't.

 

[Kae]

@Dan: Elfen Lied, partly cause its good, partly cause there's non of the sweat drops and such you hate, and partly cause its short clocking in at 13 eps or so.

and

Vampire Hunter D, the first one. a good, but bloody anime flick

other wise :/ really ... the style that brought us forgettable crap like SPONGE BOB won .... -.- no matter how crappy the anime there's always an over arcing plot, (unless your FLCL or The Excel Saga*) also, Akira and DBZ suck, so it little wonder why Dan doesn't like anime ...

Spoiler: *

stay away from the excel saga, it will make you dumber. if you want a dumb, doesn't really go anywhere anime that wont hurt your head, FLCL, or magical shopping arcade abinabashi both manage funny with out being retarded

Are you crazy?! As a person who doesn't really care for anime I can safely say that that particular anime almost made me hate it, it's just weird and there are so many things wrong with it and I don't think there's a female character in that thing that doesn't flash her underwear or outright gets naked in there which is disturbing because there are female characters that are children!
That thing was traumatizing, as for suggestions well as I said I don't really care about anime or animation in general so I have nothing.
[sub]Disclaimer: Never actually saw the anime just read the manga, I don't want to touch one of those things ever again...[/sub]

 

[Electric Gel]

"I'm not counting Pixar because it's CG..."

Animation is the application of a series of sequential images to create the illusion of movement. Various tools and methods are used to create this illusion of movement. CGI is a tool, much like a stop motion animators puppets or a 2D animators pencil and paper. The same principles and skill sets go into producing CGI animation. Your statement makes it sound like you just press a button and CG films magically appear on a DVD.

They don't. An animator made those characters move, and in the case of Pixar, an incredibly skilled, highly paid professional made those characters move. Animation is probably the hardest, most complicated discipline involved in the film and game industry, and I don't understand why people have this blind spot regarding CGI. It's just as legitimate an artistic medium, and often requires even more work then 2D or stop motion to produce.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

I suppose I should offer a recommendation, so I'll say Sword of the Stranger. Just because it left me very impressed, with some awesome fight scenes and none of the smut that plagues a lot of shows.

 

[RaikuFA]

Not gonna watch this one it seems. Dans nothing but a worthless troll.

If you did watch it, you would see that they both make snipes at each other, but both also have valid points.

Whats Dans argument? " ITS FROM JAPAN NOT AMERICA THEREFORE ITS BAD!!!"

Ah no. He even went on to explain that of the anime he has watched, he's been unimpressed. He says that he is willing to give other shows that he hasn't seen a shot. If he likes them, he likes them. If he doesn't, he doesn't.

Doubt I've seen people like him, hes just doing damage control. Hes just gonna be going off again on Mondays article saying its all bad and anyone who watches it is a waste.