No Right Answer: Best Disney Villain Redux
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Err I'm pretty sure the reason why they wouldn't make a live action film based on Frollo is that he gypsy would of find it offensive.
Bah, why did you spit take Dan?! 
Ranking: Jafar, then Malificent.
Frollo is not on the list, because no one knows him.
And he's not a Disney villain; he's just a stock character from some black pages in human history.
Ranking: Jafar, then Malificent.
Frollo is not on the list, because no one knows him.
And he's not a Disney villain; he's just a stock character from some black pages in human history.
It surprises me that the question of why Malificent was never invited wasn't brought up, that and the fact that her name is pretty much a combination of "Malicious" and "Malevolent" sort of like Cruella Deville... I mean if you ran into someone with a name like that would you invite them, especially when the person is pretty much an evil wizardess who likes to run around wearing devil horns? The point that she's slighted seems kind of irrelevant, sure that's what drove her over the edge, but it seems pretty obvious something was up here to begin with.
To be honest when it comes to Judge Frollo, I think he's a little too touchy a character, I never would have brought him up in a debate for something like this. Him being evil, which is largely characterized by his hatred of Gypsies which pretty much motivates him through the entire thing, winds up becoming fairly debatable when you consider that his portrayal is one entirely of western first world sentiments. When you look at the reaction Madonna got in Europe years ago when she used Romani entertainers in her act and made a pro-Gypsy message, and some recent issues of Gypsy child theft which are mind boggling when you consider that it supports something everyone here assumed was fake (as in children being raised by Gypsies being found to not be related to them under investigation), he kind of comes too close to reality, and might even be seen as fairly heroic through a lot of the world. A point which would have been disturbing to make but is kind of relevant to the spirit of this discussion, where what Malificent is dead wrong in what she does, and honestly if you make arguments about how petty it was and there being nothing else there, that actually makes it more so. I don't think there is anyone out there that could look at her actions and go "that's pretty reasonable". On the other hand ask one of those guys booing Madonna over the gypsies what they think of Frollo's policies, and honestly they would probably think he was a great guy, and could understand his conflict over getting the hots for a Gypsy.
Do not misunderstand the point there, I guess what I'm saying is that I think Frollo is too loaded a character, and I suspect this is why he's not used in the various Disney villain gatherings, he raises the kinds of questions and real life tensions that Disney is supposed to get you away from. In an absolute sense one could argue that this kind of baggage and the questions it raises combined with the ultimate message about acceptance through the movie makes him a better villain, having a more understandable and believable motive than most, but at the same time it winds up making him a terrible *DISNEY* villain.
In general it seems Hunchback sort of tends to get left out in the cold as far as Disney releases go. Despite the increasingly broad definition of what counts as a Princess you'll notice Esmeralda doesn't get invited to the tea parties just like Frollo doesn't get invited to the villain jamborees. What's more where most Disney movies are at least fairly loyal to the spirit of the modern version of whatever fairy tale, myth, legend or folk story they are based on, "Hunchback Of Notre Dam" is not, that is NOT an upbeat or happy story, and on a lot of levels simply doing a Disney version with an upbeat outcome defeats the entire point, and certainly doesn't make it anywhere near the same story. While okay on it's own, the fact that it's an almost insultingly bad adaption of the source it took the title from probably has something to do with why it kind of sits in a corner by itself away from most of the rest of Disney's work.
Ugh, another long ramble, when I actually didn't intend this to be one. At any rate, those are my thoughts. Due to the Spit-Take victory this does indeed deserve to be a controversial episode though! (as far as No Right Answer can have such a thing given it's spirit).
To be honest when it comes to Judge Frollo, I think he's a little too touchy a character, I never would have brought him up in a debate for something like this. Him being evil, which is largely characterized by his hatred of Gypsies which pretty much motivates him through the entire thing, winds up becoming fairly debatable when you consider that his portrayal is one entirely of western first world sentiments. When you look at the reaction Madonna got in Europe years ago when she used Romani entertainers in her act and made a pro-Gypsy message, and some recent issues of Gypsy child theft which are mind boggling when you consider that it supports something everyone here assumed was fake (as in children being raised by Gypsies being found to not be related to them under investigation), he kind of comes too close to reality, and might even be seen as fairly heroic through a lot of the world. A point which would have been disturbing to make but is kind of relevant to the spirit of this discussion, where what Malificent is dead wrong in what she does, and honestly if you make arguments about how petty it was and there being nothing else there, that actually makes it more so. I don't think there is anyone out there that could look at her actions and go "that's pretty reasonable". On the other hand ask one of those guys booing Madonna over the gypsies what they think of Frollo's policies, and honestly they would probably think he was a great guy, and could understand his conflict over getting the hots for a Gypsy.
Do not misunderstand the point there, I guess what I'm saying is that I think Frollo is too loaded a character, and I suspect this is why he's not used in the various Disney villain gatherings, he raises the kinds of questions and real life tensions that Disney is supposed to get you away from. In an absolute sense one could argue that this kind of baggage and the questions it raises combined with the ultimate message about acceptance through the movie makes him a better villain, having a more understandable and believable motive than most, but at the same time it winds up making him a terrible *DISNEY* villain.
In general it seems Hunchback sort of tends to get left out in the cold as far as Disney releases go. Despite the increasingly broad definition of what counts as a Princess you'll notice Esmeralda doesn't get invited to the tea parties just like Frollo doesn't get invited to the villain jamborees. What's more where most Disney movies are at least fairly loyal to the spirit of the modern version of whatever fairy tale, myth, legend or folk story they are based on, "Hunchback Of Notre Dam" is not, that is NOT an upbeat or happy story, and on a lot of levels simply doing a Disney version with an upbeat outcome defeats the entire point, and certainly doesn't make it anywhere near the same story. While okay on it's own, the fact that it's an almost insultingly bad adaption of the source it took the title from probably has something to do with why it kind of sits in a corner by itself away from most of the rest of Disney's work.
Ugh, another long ramble, when I actually didn't intend this to be one. At any rate, those are my thoughts. Due to the Spit-Take victory this does indeed deserve to be a controversial episode though! (as far as No Right Answer can have such a thing given it's spirit).
I don't know, you'd think he'd be the Inquisitions employee of the month, every month, unless he started assigning exterminatuse's (?) on important worlds for teh lulz.JaceArveduin said:
This episode tickled the dark humor corner of my funny bone.
I also agree with the idea of making Frollo the villain in every Disney movie... even for how short a tenure it may be at times. Lion King especially, dude gets ate about 35 seconds in.
I also agree with the idea of making Frollo the villain in every Disney movie... even for how short a tenure it may be at times. Lion King especially, dude gets ate about 35 seconds in.
I've gotta agree with this. If you're a right-proper Disney villain, you've gotta be able to belt out tune...a classic Disney Villain Song. Hell, even Gaston had a frickin' song!Aptspire said:
That and Hellfire is one of my favorite Disney songs. Like, ever.
One of my favourite Disney songs; we need good evil self-loathing. Also, if Ian McKellen doesn't want to play Frollo, I can see Alan Rickman doing it.Aptspire said:
Neither of these villians is still even remotely close the the evil of the Horned King in the Black Cauldron. The dude doesn't want to stop at just killing Gypsies. He wants to kill ALL LIVING THINGS! With a cauldron that has the soul/essence of basically satan himself infused into it. Maleficent just looks mean and petty next to him, and Frolo just looks like a wanna-be poser.
If the Horned King was at the well after killing the mother, he would have thrown the baby down the well, and them probabbly spear the priest to the wall of Notre Dame. And that would be the tame version of what he would do.
If the Horned King was at the well after killing the mother, he would have thrown the baby down the well, and them probabbly spear the priest to the wall of Notre Dame. And that would be the tame version of what he would do.
Of course not, who would? ;pkailus13 said:
And I'm surprised he brought up the argument that people wanted Frollo to succeed... I mean... he's really a monster. At least when I first saw it I was thinking the whole time "I hope that hypocrite burns", and indeed, he did. I *really* don't like hypocrites
It's pretty much due to characterisation. Or rather lack of characterisation in the heroes. The knight dude in particular is so boring I don't even remember his name. One thing you can't say about Frollo is that he's boring.Yozozo said:I'm surprised he brought up the argument that people wanted Frollo to succeed... I mean... he's really a monster. At least when I first saw it I was thinking the whole time "I hope that hypocrite burns", and indeed, he did. I *really* don't like hypocrites
Also, fire is fun.
Yozozo said:
The Horned King may not be my favorite Disney villain... but in terms of "pure evil", as well as looking the PART of "pure evil", he's probably my favorite looking villain and my favorite "pure evil" villain. His design is just so cool. Disney didn't have a villain this demonic and powerful since Fantasia's Night on Bald Mountain.
We're filming the tasting this Sunday. It may be an "Extra" video, as we'll probably spend the entire time trying to figure out what the heck it is that we're eating. Might be a bag of Slovokian laxatives!Sgt. Sykes said:So where is the international follow-up to the candy episode?
That's what you get for cursing Dan.
Just like Maleficent. In the end, you lose. ;p
[sub]Though, I do like Maleficent better. Good show anyway.[/sub] =w= b
Just like Maleficent. In the end, you lose. ;p
[sub]Though, I do like Maleficent better. Good show anyway.[/sub] =w= b