No Right Answer: Best Female Protagonist in Science Fiction Ever

[Britisheagle]

Ellen Ripley wins this one in my opinion, however Sarah Connor is still a very good character. It is a shame that as it stands the only main female protagonist is Mila Jokovich in a film that is getting less and less like it's source material.

 

[Chairman Miaow]

I mean, if you look at the implications of both these characters, what are they? That in order for a woman to be badass, she has to be a maternal figure.

Just thought I would pick at this. Ripley only has a maternal role in Aliens and Alien Resurrection, which is a steaming pile of shit. Alien and Alien 3 (my favourites, despite the bad reputation 3 has) have no maternal motifs at all.

True, and I did try and allude to that. Personally, my favourite of the films is 3, simply because of how it subverts and plays with the maternal overtones of the second film.

The thing is though, as far as popular culture goes, Aliens for many people is Ellen Ripley. It doesn't matter that the first one was a superior horror film, and the third one a better continuation of the original's nihilistic themes. For most people, the second film with all its dakka-dakka gung-ho glory is the most famous film. And I don't particularly like the implications of the main female character getting all her badass strength and resolve by running around, constantly risking herself for some annoying little squirt.

But then, I've never been a big fan of Newt. Or children in general. So that might explain it. Still glad the little runt got killed off in the opening of 3 though.

Wow, somebody who practically mirrors my feelings about 3. Before watching it, I had heard nothing about it, so was absolutely shocked to find it was almost universally loathed. And I get what you are saying about the second film being the face of the series, but that's just James Cameron for you, it isn't the fault of the character or the other film-makers.

 

[TechTim]

River Song or River from firefly?

although she's engineered to be that dangerous my vote goes to river as well

 

[The Random One]

Happy Getting Married Day, Kyle! I hope your wife can kick your ass and yet never decides to.

Spoiler: Did someone say... STRONG FEMALE CHARACTERS?

[http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=311]

It was a fair win despite the shameful eyebrow-wiggling defeat. I think Kyle was set to win anyway. Good match.

Now excuse me because I haven't watched this series in a few months and will pick up the backlog now. @____@

 

[Chairman Miaow]

Snip

Ripley's motivation in Alien is quite simple, Survive. Aliens SHOULD have been about stopping Weyland-Yutani getting their hands on the Xenomorph, but unfortunately that took a backseat to the whole mothering thing. I think what makes Alien 3 great is that what's driving her actions is not just about surviving. at first it's all about her paranoia, and then about survival once it emerges there is a xenomorph. Then once she realises she has one inside her, she wants to give up and die. Then she's fighting to kill the Xenomorph before she does that to stop Weyland-Yutani getting their hands on it, and after a point to stop it killing all the inmates.

Obviously she is just one character in one film series, and it's amazing how hard it is to think of other strong female characters who aren't just a bag of tropes. I've seen people mention characters like Zoe and River from Firefly but they really are just throwing characteristics at a wall and seeing what sticks. That's not to say that Firefly is bad, because it's not. Joss Whedon really shines when it comes to character interaction, as the more mainstream conciousness saw with the avengers, but his characters themselves always lack any real depth.

I'm really struggling to think of any female characters from film, TV, games or even literature that have been truly interesting.

 

[Tono Makt]

The Ripley guy so totally should have said "Ripley was a civilian on a military ship. When things went to hell SHE TOOK COMMAND and the marines said "YES MA'AM!" instead of "Wait, aren't you a civilian?"

Ripley wins, hands down.

 

[Tono Makt]

Re: Firefly characters

I don't think there was enough depth to any of the three female characters on the show to really put them anywhere near Sarah Connor or Ellen Ripley. There were wonderful hints at things to come, but they were fairly two dimensional on both the show and the movie. River, in particular, was less a character and more a force of nature due to the lack of time for character development. Inara, Kaylee and Zoe were more fleshed out but the show didn't last long enough to get to their specific episodes, like it got to Jaynestown for Jayne as an example.

capcha: lawn giland

Bwha?

 

[Terragent]

One of the frustrating things about this series is its (necessary) fixation on mass popular culture; the problem is that this direction tends to lead it towards the lowest common denominator.

Film is a pretty cool medium in many ways, but I wouldn't say that it's a good one to go to when looking for a "best character", female or otherwise; I wouldn't count either Ripley or Sarah Connor in a top twenty of best female SF protagonists, because existing SF literature probably takes at least nineteen out of those twenty spots without even breaking a sweat.

Consider just a few examples:

Sharrow (Against A Dark Background, Iain M. Banks)
Ilia Volyova (Revelation Space, Alastair Reynolds)
Verity Auger (Century Rain, Reynolds)
Morn Hyland (The Gap Cycle, Stephen Donaldson)
Gillian Baskin (The Uplift novels, David Brin)
Rolery (Planet of Exile, Ursula K. Le Guin)

(I'd really love to list Estraven from The Left Hand of Darkness here, but I figure that Estraven isn't sufficiently female to really qualify)

This is just a short list of characters from my favourite authors; a comprehensive and unbiased list would be much, much longer.

But of course there wouldn't be any point in running an episode featuring things that 99% of the audience weren't already intimately familiar with, so no dice. More's the pity.

 

[rbstewart7263]

I mean, if you look at the implications of both these characters, what are they? That in order for a woman to be badass, she has to be a maternal figure.

Just thought I would pick at this. Ripley only has a maternal role in Aliens and Alien Resurrection, which is a steaming pile of shit. Alien and Alien 3 (my favourites, despite the bad reputation 3 has) have no maternal motifs at all.

both films were from james cameron. Im sick of (hey guys there are more than one movies that have this chick doing this for this so it must be a univeral implication) bullshit. Its not. They do not imply that All women need a baby to be threatened to be tough. they dont "imply" anything. By hunger games 2 am I to assume that if a woman wants to be durp badass she needs a bow an arrow????

edit:Its sits odd that selfless, maternal, and does for others are considered trite but does it for her own gain is not???

 

[rbstewart7263]

Ripley's motivation in Alien is quite simple, Survive. Aliens SHOULD have been about stopping Weyland-Yutani getting their hands on the Xenomorph, but unfortunately that took a backseat to the whole mothering thing. I think what makes Alien 3 great is that what's driving her actions is not just about surviving. at first it's all about her paranoia, and then about survival once it emerges there is a xenomorph. Then once she realises she has one inside her, she wants to give up and die. Then she's fighting to kill the Xenomorph before she does that to stop Weyland-Yutani getting their hands on it, and after a point to stop it killing all the inmates.

Obviously she is just one character in one film series, and it's amazing how hard it is to think of other strong female characters who aren't just a bag of tropes. I've seen people mention characters like Zoe and River from Firefly but they really are just throwing characteristics at a wall and seeing what sticks. That's not to say that Firefly is bad, because it's not. Joss Whedon really shines when it comes to character interaction, as the more mainstream conciousness saw with the avengers, but his characters themselves always lack any real depth.

I'm really struggling to think of any female characters from film, TV, games or even literature that have been truly interesting.

Personally, I've always dug Lara Croft. While you could certainly argue about whether she's overly sexualised or what have you, I just really like the fact that (in the early games at least) she's never portrayed as anything other than a highly capable woman doing what she does for her own amusement. There's no maternal instincts with Lara, no sense that she's only a badass because she's helping others. She's a self-serving girl who shoots beasties and raids temples for sport, and is damn good at it.

Revy from Black Lagoon is another interesting one. Again, no maternal instincts, which I like. She's easily one of the toughest characters in the show, but despite displaying a near psychopathic enjoyment for violence, she manages to come across as a somewhat decent character. In fact, the majority of the designated 'badass' characters in Black Lagoon are all women. There are very few men able to go up against the likes of Revy or Balalaika. Mostly, they're the beta-male types, like Rock or Benny, or they just stick to serving beers behind the bar. Well worth checking out if you want to see a different take on the whole 'girls with guns' idea.

Apart from that... I dunno. They're out there. It's just difficult to think of any female characters who have had the same impact on pop culture as Ripley and Connor, and personally I think that's a little worrying. Hopefully if we see more characters like Croft and Revy, then it will show people that you don't have to be a mother or a surrogate mother to justify being able to kick ass.

while I disagree with this emphasis on the self serviing badass you seem to love another example is Karen Joshua from mobile suit gundam: 8th mobile suit team.

 

[Tippy]

Question - why are all the female protagonists who are considered "the best" only ones who are displaying their physical prowess? Is kicking physical ass and acting "macho" the only way a female can get noticed? To prove that they can kick just as much ass as a man, therefore that's what makes them a strong female protagonist? Strength can be more than just physical.

Why is the ability to shoot guns, kick balls, etc noted as such an important factor that makes a female protagonist decent?

For example, I could rant off many AMAZING male protagonists who don't kick a single ass or lift a finger, displaying their psychological/emotional strength instead.

Example: Lelouch from Code Geass.
Piss-weak physically (he can't even run like 50 meters or throw a punch), but smart enough to command entire battalions to do his bidding, convince bad guys to turn good, convince people to do his fighting and sacrifice their lives for him, turn the tide of war with mere words - even without his Geass ability! Now THAT'S a protagonist.

Also, House. How can anyone not love that guy?

Meanwhile in females we're getting Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor, Lara Croft, Revy, Black Widow, etc etc. Sigh.

 

[Contradiction]

No! Why did you have to mention hunger games things were going so well.
OT: Good debate I loved the premature spit take. As long as he doesn't mention Catniss again bring on Chris for the Poke'gen episode =]

 

[leviadragon99]

Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor together... I'm sure someone has allready written that fanfic.

 

[ischmalud]

sorry fellas,
HATE correcting smart people (naaaa j/k I LOVE IT) - BUT we are A SPECIES its not the human RACE - biggest misnoma EVA.............OOOOOOOOO that could be another episode....althought might be hard useing stuff like that for a full episode

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

I give my vote to Ripley. Not because I dislike Sarah Connor, she's a stone cold badass and that is half her problem. She's become (with good reason) an emotional cripple who drove her own son away and lacks any ability to interact with normal people.

Maybe Ripley is famous for basically being an over protective mother.....so fucking what? It isn't her fault (or James Cameron's for that matter) that no one has bothered to say "That was kind of cool, but lets try it this way" in the 30 odd years since Aliens came out. Physical strength is the only way, exactly how much mental fortitude do you think it took a basically untrained civilian to tool the fuck up and jump into the lion's den because she refused to let an 8 year old suffer such a terrible fate.

I don't give a fuck what your motivation is, that's hardcore with heart.

Although the lack of Vasquez on this list displeases me

 

[chiefohara]

Interesting Topic, I'd also suggest a follow up with a TV series version

Starbuck All the way for kicking Ass