No Right Answer: Best Star Trek Captain Ever

[ZippyDSMlee]

Oh Great and Sacred Holy Cow...

What shows were you people watching? Time to clear up the misconceptions:

Kirk - The "Action" Captain - Was he more exciting and likely to punch something in the face? You're darned right he was, but only when there was no other choice. Kirk was ALWAYS trying to move through the diplomatic approach, except when it was against orders / unlikely to get results (see cloaking device steal or Klingon occupation). Most of the time, while there was action involved, he solved the problem with words and good sense. He also was fighting space Gods long before Sisko made it cool, and did it several times. The list includes Sha Ka Ree, Apollo, and Trelane (just to name a few). He was a well balanced captain, who showed the most humanity of any other captain in both getting old, become irrelevant, and the special bond he shared with his crew (see Wrath of Khan / M-5 / The Final Frontier).

Picard - The "Diplomatic" Captain - It's funny that to be a diplomat, you would have to negotiate with something so that both sides get what they want while losing as little as possible. Why is this funny? Well, the first action that he took as Captain of the Enterprise was to surrender to Q. French jokes aside, he was smart and persuasive but far too often let technology fix the problem rather than hold it down and beat it into submission like Kirk. He got his own deeply human moments, from his experience with the Borg to his interaction with Data. He also went up against the Gods, but why is punching them in the face something that is to be excited about? In Q Who when he becomes human, the feeling of pain surprises him because he doesn't feel it with his powers. Q was mocking Sisko when he said Picard never hit him because he realized how stupid and easy to manipulate Sisko would be. Picard could go up against Q in philosophy and wit, though the scope of his perceptions were frequently limited. This is why he is #2.

Sisko - The "Took most of the Series" Captain - Sisko was unique in the fact that he was the only captain who we saw in a long term war with an enemy. In this time, we saw Sisko as a brave and charismatic leader. If that was all we saw of him, that would have been fantastic. However, we also got to see him skip and sing in a board game, use some very shady and un-starfleet tactics to manipulate and cheat those around him (I'm not even talking Romulan/Dominion, look at how he got Quark to stick around and then complain about what a pain he was), and he lacked the stones to just kill his enemy and be done with it (Gul Dukat anyone?). This is before the fact that we look at him as the worst of all the actors who played Captains. Yes, worse than monotone Bakula. He was a great stupid oaf and lack conviction, and I felt that Garrack was the voice of the audience complaining about how simple-minded he was. P.S. Riker beat him to God-Powers. So... how does he rank #3?

Janeway - The "*****" Captain - I really don't know why anyone defends her. The previous three Captains that came in Star Trek lore had varied relationships with their crew, but never had one treated their crew like Dictator Janeway. They even had an episode of evil Janeway (it was a recreation of a historical event that apparently was "min-informed"), but I couldn't tell the difference between the two. Janeway was the result of the writers trying to show how hard a Captain had to be when all they could rely on was themselves, but this was handled so poorly that all it appeared to do was make her look like she was perpetually ovulating. Other than all that, her biggest crime was the lack of character. The biggest character trait was an addiction to coffee... which is not that interesting. Oh... and Voyager also ruined Q.

Archer - Got bored after the first season, so I never finished Enterprise. Don't judge me, most people didn't. What do I remember? Archer: "Why are the Vulcans being so mean? I just want to play with the fellas! I'm old enough, they won't beat me up!" The rest of the episode was him getting beat up. Wash, rinse, repeat for 16 episodes.

Just a thought but Voyager was stuck far far far away from normal federation space so the style of leadership is different. Any use of Q after TNG was bad so meh.

Meh Dukat was a minor character with major role of being the go to villain for the series, I can't blame Sisko for him not being killed off. Also with how DS9 played out Picard would not have done much differently. So I scoff at your dislike of Sisko

 

[Aureliano]

Very nice argument overall. I'm still not convinced one way or the other (they're both so different and so iconic), but I think that Kyle won the debate fairly.

Glad you didn't go for Sisko vs. Janeway though. Not that I don't think an argument can be made for both, but I just don't think there's enough fervor on either side to merit a real debate. I'd love to see DS9 versus Voyager though; one's heavy and philosophical, the other is fun but often retarded with little dashes of brilliance here and there.

 

[bdcjacko]

George Takei is the best captain.

Han Solo every day of the week.

Ooooo my.

 

[redknightalex]

In my book, Picard will always win out because THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!!!!!

Exactly this. The strengths of all of the captains have been debated already, and most likely no one will move their opinion (very personal opinion after all), but I feel like Picard had a strong emotional strength that allowed him to get through situations like this, to persevere. I'm not sure Kirk would have made it through that ordeal, or being assimilated by the Borg, the way Picard was able to. Even after his assimilation, Picard still found the strength inside of himself to help his crew out and destroy the cube. I'm not saying Kirk wouldn't have found a way out of these situations via a different way, I just believe that Picard had an emotional conviction that defined him and made him stronger than Kirk.

As for Janeway...always the hate. I liked her because, wow, female captain! However, that being said (and my personal bias towards seeing powerful women, for which there aren't enough), they had horrible writers for the first half of Voyager. Most of Seasons 1-2 was each writer oscillating between making Janeway more feminine or more assertive. What came out was an almost multiple personality character that felt out-of-control 50% of the time. After Season 4, the writers finally stabilized due to DS9 ending, Mulgrew got more say in her character, and Janeway became a much bigger force to deal with. Somehow, she also had the loyalty of the crew (how many times did they die for each other and/or her?), defeated the Borg half-dozen times, and got her crew home. Most of the time, you'd get a medal for getting your crew home no matter the cost.

I don't have much more to say other than that. I can't say much about Kirk (can't stand TOS, sorry), never really saw Sisko in action (DS9 is on my watch list), and Archer...ugh.

Still, as they said, this is the biggest nerd battle that will never die. Furthermore, I think we'll all set in our convictions that debate is almost pointless. They did say no right answer...right?

 

[beastro]

Sisko. He's been the only competent military officer.

Picard was just a hard ass that flew around the galaxy from the comfort of his fancy living room spouting Gene Roddenberry's diarrhea while sipping tea.

Janeway suffered from sexism in that the creators of the character were so defensive about it they turned her into a spiteful, hostile pitbull and a ***** for a CO.

Imagine if her character had been male.

 

[iyaerP]

Kirk was badass but suffered from Roddenberry's "Humanity is the saviors of the galaxy" vision.

Picard was the diplomat and negotiator. Did the galactic exploration like Kirk, but in suave style.

Sisko was the most human of the captains. He had realistic and normal troubles beyond being a captain, and his flaws were well explored and characterized better than any of the other captains. Like picard, he could be the diplomat, and like Kirk, he could be the action hero, but most of all, the way that DS9 did a convincing deconstruction of the Federation and its philosophies allowed to show the true nature of captain sisko. That as the ultimate badass who got shit done. As for not killing Dukat? Yes, why on earth would a Federation officer choose not to kill the most powerful political and military leader of a superpower that the federation JUST made peace with? No idea there. /sarcasm off. The cardassians and federation didn't go to war again until midway thru season 5, after which it would have been impractical. Or did you miss the bit about how the protege of the Obsidian Order wasn't even able to make contact without any of his old network getting murdered by Dominion security simply for having been spoken to by him? Performing an assassination would have been WAY outside bounds for the federation (I could see section 31 making a try at it tho). Hell, for a good portion of the series, Dukat was used as Sisko's inside influence on cardassian political maneuverings. He was even an ally during the federation/klingon war.

Janeway was just terrible. Nothing against strong female leads. I loved Jadzia, but Janeway suffered from three things: terrible writing, complete psychosis, and ALWAYS RIGHT syndrome (one of the hallmarks of a mary sue). Janeway would constantly and consistantly make terrible decisions. Tactically unsound commands and diplomatic faux pa were her calling cards, and the worst part is that somehow she would always be "right" regardless. Sikso, Kirk, Picard, and even Archer all had major episodes where they screw up and get called on it. Janeway never has this happen, which makes the whole thing all the worse. The whole Q wants her babies thing only made it worse.

Archer was okay, but rather bland. I think he suffered mostly from the way that Enterprise ret-conned certain set pieces of Star Trek lore such as Vulcans being more militant and Klingons and Romulans making contact with humanity far earlier than they were supposed to. I found his best interactions to be with the Suliban, the Xindi, and surprisingly the Androans. He and the actor of commander Shran had good screen chemistry.

 

[Mr_Terrific]

1.Captain Sisko...

punched Q in the face.
had sex with alternate reality Dax
Is a half god
Cloaked federation warship
Went to war with Klingons and won
Punched the Dominion in the face and won

2. Pickard

Saved humanity from Q in the first damn episode
can't beat that first episode

3. Archer

Hijacked a random ship and stole parts off it.
Pretends to be a nice guy but is a true asshole.

4. Janeway

Had sex with 7 of 9...in my mind of course

That is all

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Excuse me, but no Archer? No Sisko? No Pike? No Janeway? No Mackenzie Calhoun?

You need to see more Star Trek.

Calhoun is one badass ************. I don't think any other person completed the Kobayashi Maru quite the way he did.

Spoiler

Who else would consider FIRING on the transport and making a run for it? And it makes sense. Just what is a civilian transport doing in contested space like that in the first place? And with a half dozen Klingon warships conveniently nearby?

 

[Spearmaster]

Picard was the man that filled the role of captain the best. Commanding a Galaxy class star ship with 1000 crew members/scientist/researchers/families was something none of the other captains has done, on top of being captured and tortured by the cardassians during a secret covert mission, discovering and being assimilated by the borg, constant battles of intellect with Q and lets not forget the weekly new life and new civilizations bit. He kinda did it all.

Kirk was Chuck Norris with a hard-on and a ship.

Sisko and Janeway seemed like an attempt at a black Picard and a woman Picard that had large grandiose plot devices dropped in their lap, I blame the writers.

Archer was...(sigh)

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Picard was the man that filled the role of captain the best. Commanding a Galaxy class star ship with 1000 crew members/scientist/researchers/families was something none of the other captains has done, on top of being captured and tortured by the cardassians during a secret covert mission, discovering and being assimilated by the borg, constant battles of intellect with Q and lets not forget the weekly new life and new civilizations bit. He kinda did it all.

Kirk was Chuck Norris with a hard-on and a ship.

Sisko and Janeway seemed like an attempt at a black Picard and a woman Picard that had large grandiose plot devices dropped in their lap, I blame the writers.

Archer was...(sigh)

I see Sisko as the anti Picard. He is not the best captain, but the most human. When contrasted against Picard, Sisko runs on his emotions, tempered by morals, while Picard remains professional and keeps his personal biases under control. That is why Picard is the captain of the Flagship, while Sisko was shuffled from one post to the next before he finally got his life back on track.

Still, nobody can quite threaten the way Sisko can.

And to the people accusing Avery Brooks of overacting.... look at his company.
And

I can't find videos for Janeway or Archer, because Janeway's ethics change every episode, and Archer is too incompetent to overact.

 

[Darth_Payn]

Sisko owns the universe.
Also, he punched Q.

Was it punched or a thorough bitchslap? I feel the latter would be preferable to someone like Q.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

I'm sorry, but I love Sisko. Here's three reasons why:

1: He was a war officer. Let's face it ... his job from half way through Season 1 to the end was keeping the peace and juggling the gateway to an untapped resources of 1/4 of the entire Galaxy. He was a soldier who lost his wife in battle against the Borg. He was a militant vanguard against the predations of various factions within Bajor. He, by his ownsome, dealt three deathblows to three MASSIVE factions t5hat sought to destroy the Federation and re-conquer Bajor to unlock the hidden potential of both quadrants of the galaxy.

2: Sisko had to commit -WARCRIMES- to achieve his objectives and for the greater good of the Federation and Bajor. He wasn't an evil guy, but he accepted that war is a horrible thing that needed to have the rules bent in order to win. He had to juggle his morals and the likelihood of success and is the perfect example of Utilitarianism over stringent moral codes.

In essence, he was the most -Human- of all the ST Captains. He was this morally upstanding guy put into a situation where he has to shoulder the responsibility and the guilt of having to perform actions that would have crushed the soul and sanity of either Kirk and Picard.

Sisko does not have a happy beginning, and he doesn't have a happy end. His hands covered in blood and his career besmirched with a string of sinister actions that were a necessary evil in the light of the problems faced.

3: Sisko has to deal with things beyond the realm of Science. He has to deal with the supernatural, and his connection to that supernaturalism. There is no scientific debate, he has to make a sincere leap of faith to rationalise his life and his significance. And he gives up his son and second wife, his very corporeality, to maintain the balance and act as a force of good.

He sacrifices everything not in the fight of discovery, or the right to life and happiness, but simply to fight the very conceptual ideality of evil itself.

 

[ZZoMBiE13]

Sisko owns the universe.
Also, he punched Q.

Was it punched or a thorough bitchslap? I feel the latter would be preferable to someone like Q.

You have my permission to remember it however best suits your needs. In my memory, it was something akin to Ryu's Dragon Punch. Sho-Q-Ken!

 

[Notsomuch]

I'm not much of a fan by any stretch but I've seen the show in syndication and Kirk usually leaves Scotty or Spock in command when he goes down. Both are arguably great or better than kirk at actually captaining a ship in their own ways. The only reason they ever really have trouble is due to complications happening planet-side with the away team and Scotty has shown himself throughout the series to be a highly competent and courageous Commander. He had his flaws but of all the possible Captains, Scotty seemed the most.... Human.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

Fuck you Dan!
Sisko is the MAN!

But he's also not a captain, he's a commander. Janeway was a *****.
And that's it. There was nobody else.
At all
>_>
<_<

He was the best commander (suck it riker) and then when he got promoted at the end of season 3, he was the best captain.

I would have known that if I'd ever been able to watch the series all the way through (curse you Spike TV!)

Sisko owns the universe.
Also, he punched Q.

THAT I remember
But did Q ever come back?

No he did not!

Q didn't return to the station for the rest of the series, nor did he have fun with the Defiant.

Of course Sisko had to deal with the Founders, the Vorta (especially four of the clones of Weyoun), Dukat, being a Messiah figure to the Bajorans and the Ferengi.

 

[el derpenburgo]

Glad to see the love for Sisko on the escapist. Kirk was too blunt, Picard too self-important, Janeway too... well shit, no one knows but she was too something, and Sisko was too badass. Not afraid to kick down doors if he has to, but a real legend when he needs to be. Also:

Spoiler

He's literally a god. People say that was overdoing it but holy crap, no other captain got to be immortal and a master of time and space and that's awesome.