No Right Answer: Not a good show

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Pebkio

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Nov 9, 2009
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I've been holding this in for a while now, but I don't know why you guys are still doing this show on the Escapist. Your show remains as unpolished as when you had started.

I was going to say "nearly", but when researching your episodes for this little rant, I compared your first episode (Wood Vs. Yellow) with your most recent that wasn't live (Best Animated Disney Movie Ever). Not even the sound quality had improved. It still feels, today, as slapped-together as when you first put up the show. And it's been over a year.

I get it, I was paying attention to your bookshelf, a lot of how you do things is a style choice. Okay that's fine, Zero Punctuation hasn't changed its fundamental format in five years; but if you go and compare the first ZP (Heavenly Sword and Other Stuff) to an episode less than a year later (Ninja Gaiden 2), you'll find that he had polished his format significantly.

I know that some will argue that the feel is part of your charm, but I will remind you that Jim nearly got chased out of here with pitchforks for doing the exact same thing as you guys are doing now: Sitting in front of a camera and saying stuff. Since then, he's given his show a major shine and buff, as if the Escapist forced him to be more professional.

You guys haven't done that and, for some reason, get to remain as a dwindling example of the only unprofessional slobs still on the Escapist. I don't say that lightly, so let's look at a few things you might need to make any show polished and professional: Preparation and Post (the actual editing and inserts and such). No matter what you can say about equipment used and acting skills, if you have those two processes down, you'll look good.

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Preparation

So, aside from decorating the bookshelf and actually choosing what the episode is about, what do you do to prepare?

Do you makes a list of all the best/worst examples of the weekly topic that you can remember? Or do you just go with the first example you can remember? There are many episodes throughout the year in which I and many of your regular viewers can instantly think of things that are, pretty obviously, better/worse than what you've chosen as your best/worst. Maybe you choose those answers specifically to get a rise out of people, but again, I'd like to point out that another reason Jim was ostracized was for being purposefully antagonistic.

So, after you've made your choice to defend, do you research the topic? Do you rehearse your arguments with each other? Or do you just collect up talking points most prevalent in your head and then wing it when the cameras are activated? This is, perhaps, the biggest reason I don't like your show: Lack of good arguments to bolster your case. Sure, you sometimes make good points, but only if you happen to think of them at the time. You can claim this as a style choice, but I would then feel compelled to point out that you're making a show for the Escapist and not just filming the making of a podcast. You can still rehearse the feel of a free-debate to make it more entertaining.

Post

So, once you have all the raw footage and sound, what do you do to make it presentable and enjoyable?

Do you make sure that what you've "filmed" flows through the restrictive time-limit you've been placed under? Do you make sure that what you cut and what you leave doesn't detract from the entertainment potential? Or do you just use hard cuts and mismatched sound. Now, normally, your sound editing is fine, although you do make mistakes that you don't fix. The bigger gripe here is your video editing. The very fact that you have to sacrifice the flow of video to keep audio clean is an error in your preparation, but that you would use hard cuts after post is mind-boggling. I would assume they're paying you for this, right?

What do you use to "spice up" the dialogue? What thematic style do you use to alleviate the feeling of just watching someone(s) talk into a camera. This, if you couldn't tell, is the gimmick of every show. ZP is just a guy complaining about a video game, but it's got that humorous art thing and is done from the perspective of "reviewing". The Jimquisition is just some guy griping about topical interests, but he has a nice documentary style read-off, book-ended by comedic skits.

With that in mind, do you use your gimmick in a thoughtful way? Does your use of such a thematic style enliven the core of your show? Or do you just insert pictures over the two guys talking in jarring, and sometimes hard-to-follow, ways. I admit that this is, by definition, completely style decided and hardly a big flaw. But yeah, sometimes you put up pictures too fast to appreciate... often with text that distracts the viewer for just long enough to actually miss the picture itself, causing you to have to think back... and BAM you've lost a good flow as now viewers are tying to catch up to you and basically what I'm saying in a run on sentence is don't put big white letters in your real life pictures because it's distracting.

Conclusion
(Modern Translation: tl;dr)

There is a lot that "No Right Answer" needs to fix or polish before it can feel like a professional show on the Escapist. I mentioned it before, and I'll mention it again here, but the show really does make me feel like I'm watching the filming of a 5 minute clip of a podcast. But don't get me wrong, I actually like the guys who make it and what the show could become. I wouldn't have spent an hour and a half writing this if I didn't want to see more. But as things stand now, the show is worthy of nothing more than a channel on YouTube.
 

Dangit2019

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Aug 8, 2011
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While this is relevant, what is with their debate system? I never really understood it. I've seen numerous videos of theirs where one of them will make an extremely valid point, while the other will yell their opinion the loudest, and the latter will get all the points. I guess they're running on Yahtzee's general rules of debate...

Also, they picked Campbell over Fillion, and Campbell's kind of a narcissistic dick despite being in awesome movies, and FUCK THEIR OPINIONS THAT ARE DIFFERENT THAN MINE.
 

uneek

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Dude...can't you just watch something else? I mean, instead of waiting for a show you don't like to improve, you could just watch another show. The guys themselves have mentioned shows better than them. One example, Cracked.com has a series of sketch videos called "After Hours". Somewhat similar only it's scripted and are more discussing a certain topic rather than debating.

Or if you really want to keep doing this to yourself, shouldn't you e-mail this to them instead of posting it here?
 

Kae

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Pebkio said:
Well this sounds like it's directed at them not us, so I wonder did you mean to send this as an E-mail to them?
Because I'm pretty sure that the only one that has an account is Dan [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/profiles/view/Firefilm] and I don't remember seeing him commenting on anything other than their work, so I doubt they'll see it, just so you know.
 

Lizardon

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Dangit2019 said:
While this is relevant, what is with their debate system? I never really understood it. I've seen numerous videos of theirs where one of them will make an extremely valid point, while the other will yell their opinion the loudest, and the latter will get all the points. I guess they're running on Yahtzee's general rules of debate...

Also, they picked Campbell over Fillion, and Campbell's kind of a narcissistic dick despite being in awesome movies, and FUCK THEIR OPINIONS THAT ARE DIFFERENT THAN MINE.
They usually go into more detail on why/how the points are distributed in their column if you are really interested in the reasoning behind it.

Personally I'm not a fan of the show. I find the guys themselves very likeable and entertaining, for example I thought the "Who Would Win" episode was great, but I don't like the show that much. The format is kind of bland and a lot of the time, since I have already discussed many of their topics, I have a fairly good idea what points they are going to make.
 

Casual Shinji

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It's a show for yucks.

Maybe I'm seeing it wrong, but No Right Answer was never meant to be a serious, professional, indepth debate series. It's just two nerdy guys in front of a camera, knocking examples back and forth of why they're right, for a laugh.

Either you laugh at it or you don't.

The Jimquisition is actually trying to make a genuine point, but really sucked at it in the first couple of episodes, as revealed in the comments. And I've never heard anyone complain about No Right Answer except for now, so I don't see why they should change.
 

Nouw

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Eh I just see it as a show for laughs, not actual debating. Who cares about who wins? I just want to see how they prove their point :p.
 

Evil Smurf

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Nov 11, 2011
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I hear you OP. This turned me off the show for a while. then I started to like the debates for the reasoning behind the winners
 

Pebkio

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Nov 9, 2009
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Casual Shinji said:
It's a show for yucks.

Maybe I'm seeing it wrong, but No Right Answer was never meant to be a serious, professional, in-depth debate series. It's just two nerdy guys in front of a camera, knocking examples back and forth of why they're right, for a laugh.
Not my point, but this does give me the opportunity to explain the difference of what I'm arguing. It's not the substance of the show that is disappointing, but rather its presentation. While I did point out that the examples they choose are lacking, it's not because I wanted an entire and serious discussion on who would actually win the worst third movie in a series, it's because the lack of acknowledgment of other choices appears sloppy.

I'm not asking for a cheeseburger to become a steak, but I am asking that they make the cheeseburger to be appetizing and full of flavor.

Evil Smurf said:
I hear you OP. This turned me off the show for a while. then I started to like the debates for the reasoning behind the winners
Nouw said:
Eh I just see it as a show for laughs, not actual debating. Who cares about who wins? I just want to see how they prove their point :p.
This is what the show is about, and that's great. They don't have to change that bit of their routine at all to start looking good. But as I pointed out in my op, that could just be an enjoyable segment from a podcast. To have an actual show published in a online magazine usually takes more, especially on the Escapist. The post is equally about how flummoxed I am that they still have a show here as it is about how unpolished the show remains.

Kaleion said:
Well this sounds like it's directed at them not us, so I wonder did you mean to send this as an E-mail to them?
Because I'm pretty sure that the only one that has an account is Dan [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/profiles/view/Firefilm] and I don't remember seeing him commenting on anything other than their work, so I doubt they'll see it, just so you know.
Well, the post wasn't really for them, was it? They've had their show for over a year now and they haven't felt the need to make themselves look any better. The post is more for the escapist, but since it's not a true analysis of quality to viewership, rather a rant, it would be bad form just to email my concerns to the head editor (or something).

...did it not occur to you that I just wanted to share my thoughts while also giving my speechify glands a workout?
 

Dangit2019

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uneek said:
Dude...can't you just watch something else? I mean, instead of waiting for a show you don't like to improve, you could just watch another show. The guys themselves have mentioned shows better than them. One example, Cracked.com has a series of sketch videos called "After Hours". Somewhat similar only it's scripted and are more discussing a certain topic rather than debating.

Or if you really want to keep doing this to yourself, shouldn't you e-mail this to them instead of posting it here?
But if no one gives criticism, how will they ever become a better show? In fact, OP criticizing it shows that he likes the premise of the show, but wants it to refine itself rather than do the same thing over and over again.

This is unrelated, but After Hours is hilarious.

"Black people invented hoverboards?"
 

Kae

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Pebkio said:
Well, the post wasn't really for them, was it? They've had their show for over a year now and they haven't felt the need to make themselves look any better. The post is more for the escapist, but since it's not a true analysis of quality to viewership, rather a rant, it would be bad form just to email my concerns to the head editor (or something).
Oh, I just thought that seemed to be directed at them and that it looked like a letter.
Pebkio said:
...did it not occur to you that I just wanted to share my thoughts while also giving my speechify glands a workout?
I didn't give much thought into it, but no I didn't think of it, though that's definitely what I'd call speechifying har-har-har.
[sub]That last thing was a joke don't take it seriously, for I did not mean it.[/sub]
 

l3o2828

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I don't watch it, i find it to be the most boring thing on the Escapist.
But honestly, i don't care.
 

tippy2k2

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Their attitudes may have changed but one sentence in their podcast (Media Sandwich) made me lose all interest in that show:

"What we debate is not always our actual opinion"

It seemed like any time they got called out for their debates, this was their go-to answer. If you can't stand behind what you're debating, I have no reason to listen to you.

Now again, this was when they were just starting and this attitude may have changed now but that has always stuck with me. If you like the show, great; I'm not going to sit here and call for No Right Answer to be canceled but I find the show silly.

Also, the scoring system has always seemed wonky. One person can give a great and meaningful answer and they get a point. The other person then says something superficial and silly and...they get a point as well. I never understood their point system, though it sounds like they clarify that in that article they have (something they didn't have when I watched the show back in the day).
 

artanis_neravar

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Pebkio said:
I've been holding this in for a while now, but I don't know why you guys are still doing this show on the Escapist.
Probably because people enjoy it.

tippy2k2 said:
"What we debate is not always our actual opinion"

It seemed like any time they got called out for their debates, this was their go-to answer. If you can't stand behind what you're debating, I have no reason to listen to you.
Did you ever do debate in school? (honest question not trying to be condescending or anything) You often don't get to debate your actual opinion.

Also I would assume that sometimes their actual opinion has more to do with personal feeling rather than any evidence, so instead of choosing what they actually believe they choose what they believe they can support. Say for worst super hero death they actually believed the Captain Americas death was the worst, but they just didn't have any real evidence other than their personal distaste for, that would make for a poor debate.
 

tyriless

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If an episode of theirs has a subject that interests me, I watch it and other than their "Which is the better Batman" episode, I've enjoyed each one. The "quality" of their presentation, as far a graphics or polish, really does bother me at all because I enjoy the content of these episodes: Two moderately charismatic dudes debate and riff about what's the better of the two things, a long-lasting nerd pastime. As long as I find them funny I can don't give a damn about anything else.
 

Something Amyss

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tippy2k2 said:
I'm not going to sit here and call for No Right Answer to be canceled but I find the show silly.
The show's supposed to be silly. Seriously, who cares if they argue in good faith.

Now, if only they were funny....
 

Pebkio

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Nov 9, 2009
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artanis_neravar said:
Did you ever do debate in school? (honest question not trying to be condescending or anything) You often don't get to debate your actual opinion.

Also I would assume that sometimes their actual opinion has more to do with personal feeling rather than any evidence, so instead of choosing what they actually believe they choose what they believe they can support. Say for worst super hero death they actually believed the Captain Americas death was the worst, but they just didn't have any real evidence other than their personal distaste for, that would make for a poor debate.
Your argument falls flat in two ways:
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The are not participating in a schooling exercise, the are making a show. They control the content on their own show and thus can choose what to debate and what to support. You can argue for or against everything that ever existed ever, even intangible guessing.

I take it that you watch and enjoy the show. Now, deep breath, big honesty. Do you actually think that anything they say would actually win a real debate? You can't argue that they're trying to make the best arguments because they clearly aren't.
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But as was already pointed out, it's not actually a serious and real debate, and I never asked it to be. I asked it to look professional because it's being published. You could say that Tippy was asking for that, but you'd be wrong. He was asking for these people to stand behind their production... and they don't.
 

Quadocky

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Huh, I only saw a little bit of their first episode and never watched it again.

Weird. Guess I didn't like it.
 

tippy2k2

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artanis_neravar said:
Did you ever do debate in school? (honest question not trying to be condescending or anything) You often don't get to debate your actual opinion.

Also I would assume that sometimes their actual opinion has more to do with personal feeling rather than any evidence, so instead of choosing what they actually believe they choose what they believe they can support. Say for worst super hero death they actually believed the Captain Americas death was the worst, but they just didn't have any real evidence other than their personal distaste for, that would make for a poor debate.
Pebkio already stole my answer but I'll expand on it a bit:

This isn't a scholarly debate, this is two nerds (I use this term with great affection btw) arguing over what they think is worse.

They have the show in the perfect spot to displease me. It's too silly to be actually useful for changing opinions. However, because they don't use their own opinions and just argue things they may not have any care about, it feels like they are trying to give it credibility that the silliness undermines.

...did that make sense? I feel like that didn't make much sense but I don't know how else to try to explain it. I should have just let Pebkio answer for me and kept my mouth shut : )
 

Pebkio

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Nov 9, 2009
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Incidentally, I just thought of what would be a great meta episode: Worst Show on the Escapist.

And then, instead of arguing between themselves and Feed Dump, they'd argue between Space Janitors and Miracle of Sound.