No Right Answer: Show that Jumped the Shark the Most

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Robot Number V

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As a pretty big "Lost" fan, I completely agree with everything that was said.

Also, Chris's train metaphor for "Lost" was both hilarious and accurate.
 

rembrandtqeinstein

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If you want to see a better take on the whole "ordinary people get superpowers" thing check out Misfits:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1548850/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

Just finished season 1, really good so far. IMDB comments say season 2 is good and 3 dies but 2 good seasons is about all a lot of shows have.
 

purifico

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That train metaphor was glorious.

Can't say anything about Lost since I've stopped watching after season 1. Season 1 was awesome. The first 3 episodes of season 2 were so bad and made me so angry that were it a game my reaction would have been a rage quit followed by deleting the game, snapping the disc in half and throwing your computer out of the window. So yeah. Can't really say how bad the rest of the show was as my memories of the show stay mostly unmarred.

My vote goes to Heroes. I managed to see the show to it's end and boy was it not pretty. Never seen anything start so well and end so badly. You could basically see the show detoriate before your eyes, losing rotten limbs and finally collapsing into a pile of putrid flesh. So very sad.

rembrandtqeinstein said:
If you want to see a better take on the whole "ordinary people get superpowers" thing check out Misfits:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1548850/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

Just finished season 1, really good so far. IMDB comments say season 2 is good and 3 dies but 2 good seasons is about all a lot of shows have.
Unfortunately it goes the way of heroes after season 2. The first 2 seasons of Misfits are outstanding. The latter 2 not so much. They loose the overarcing story and become a compilation of episodes that are mostly not connected to each other in any way. The accent on superpowers also kinda whittles. Plus


SPOILER!!!!!!!





all the leading people from the start of the show leave by the end of season 3 and are replaced by new crew that can't even hold a candle to the original misfits.
 

Jbowdown

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Just a quick note, the High-Quality HTML5 .webm videos for last week and this week do not work. Every other HTML5 video on the site released in the last two weeks have been fine. The video will work when I switch it to Flash Player, so I wonder if you have bad video links. I'm using Firefox 19 and the videos simply aren't there when I view the page info under the tools menu.
 

Nghtgnt

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Every time I see something like this I'm so glad I never watched a single episode of Lost. I did, however, watch seasons 1 and 2 of Heroes, and quit a few episodes into season 3.

I think the debate between Lost and Heroes is especially interesting given that Heroes started while Lost was still on the air and there were quite a few comparisons made between the two at the time. Heroes creator Tim Kring himself pointed out a lot of the comparisons in interviews, and I think he even pointed out that Lost never gives you answers (as Chris pointed out, intrigue has a shelf-life) while Heroes looked to provide answers and wrap storylines up by the end of the season.

Another thing that is really disappointing was that Tim Kring realized what were some of the things that went wrong with season 2 of Heroes (see: http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20158840,00.html ). You'd think that recognizing mistakes would make the show better from then on. Yeah, apparently not so much, it just allowed them to make all new mistakes - one of the main reasons I quit watching was there were way too many characters, and I just didn't care about most of them.
 

TheSchaef

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Isn't the answer to "show that jumped the shark the most" ALWAYS going to be Happy Days? By virtue of inventing the shark jump?

The problem with Heroes (well, Heroes had a lot of problems) was that they didn't come up with a solid rule for character death. Zach Landis' treatise on the death of Superman applies perfectly to the Heroes universe.

In the first season they introduced a lot of characters, and about 80% of them get killed at some point, usually by Sylar. So it's a bit like The Shield, or Game of Thrones, where you'd better not get yourself too emotionally invested in anybody.

But then they took a great nemesis for Hiro - Adam - and just killed him off haphazardly, and then they started contriving ways to keep around actors that were a draw for the show, e.g. Ali Larter having long lost twins out in the world somewhere. Then (spoiler) they give Nathan Petrelli a great, dramatic death, then pull him back in kinda sideways, then have to write an episode that closes out his character, which they should have just left it the way it was.

Season 4 of Heroes was pretty good, but I hear the same thing about Enterprise but I gave up on that show long before Season 4, and it got canned anyway.

Meanwhile, Dollhouse and Terminator get the boot right when their stories are getting amazing.
 

Trishbot

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You can basically watch just the first or second season of LOST and then the final episode and it makes just as much sense.
 

Frozengale

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Heroes goes like this

Season 1 - GOOD STUFF
Season 2 - Only good during Hiro segments
Season 3 - Hereos? What are you doing?
Season 4 - HEROES?! STAHP!!!!
 

Crimson_Dragoon

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Got to say, still a fan of both series, even if there both flawed.

Admittedly, Lost couldn't keep up with its own mythology and did get a bit nonsensical near the end, but as was mentioned in this video, there were some damn compelling characters. That was enough to keep me in.

As for Heroes, it did pick up again in the fourth season, largely due to having an interesting villain again. But I wouldn't hold it against anyone for jumping ship before that point.
 

Darth_Payn

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CrazyBlaze said:
I loved Heroes and season 2 had interesting moments and enough momentum from season one to continue. Then we had a crap ending to the season and it sucked. Badly. I put a lot of blame on the writer's strike because I think they had some long season plan they had to rush. And season three was baaaaaaad. It deserves to die. So many interesting things that would be introduced and wrapped up way too quickly. Season four was good. But it was too little too late.
That's pretty apt for my experience with Heroes, but I found Season 4 to be surprisingly engaging, with some genuine surprises and character moments almost on par with Season 1. That show was a victim of circumstances, unfortunately.
But as for Lost, i never got into it because of how much sense they didn't make. They just kept throwing crap at the walls to see what stuck.
 

Callate

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No. No. No. Wrong. No.

Lost at least had an ending that it was allowed to get to. It had characters who actually stayed more or less in character, and occasionally even got to develop. It had things that happened that had consequences that there wasn't any getting out of. Yes, it threw a lot of half-realized nonsense into the mix, especially towards the end, and barreled along before you could look at it too hard, but it still held on to all of the above.

Heroes couldn't stick to anything. Characters did wildly out-of-character things because the script said they should, and character arcs twisted back to destroy their own development. Powers came and went and came again, functioned differently at different times without explanation. Characters died, not even so much in a "life's not fair" way but in a "oops, moving on" way.

Bottom line: I watched Lost through to the end; I just couldn't stomach watching any more bungling of whatever had been worthwhile in Heroes after about mid-way through season 3. I think the judgement on this one was dead wrong.
 

Sehnsucht Engel

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I think both had a good first season, and then they turned to shit fast. I couldn't force myself to continue watching it. I was amazed to hear how many seasons Lost apparently got, and now you're saying heroes got several too. >_>

I think HBO is one of the few who can do great TV-shows. The others are more hit and miss than anything else to me. Although there are some exceptions, like Sherlock is brilliant and The Walking Dead has been decent so far.
 

Kapol

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The main show I've seen that I was incredibly disappointed by was Harper's Island. A murder mystery show that the mystery spans the entire season while cast members are killed off one by one, leaving the mystery to be solved by the viewers over time rather than by the 'hero?' Sign me up! That sounds freaking amazing! Hell, the show started with someone being viciously murdered by a boat propeller. So it didn't seem to want to shy away from blood. It was like a more in-depth horror movie. And throughout it all, I was hoping two major things wouldn't happen... which of course did.

For those who don't know the series, the show takes place on an island as a couple prepares for their wedding day on the island. They invited a bunch of their friends and family along for the ride when they start getting killed off. There was also a Serial Killer years before who murdered the main character's mother or family or something. His name was John Wakefield.

So what did I really want to not happen? Two things. Don't have the groom and/or the main character's love interest be the killer, and don't have John Wakefield come back as the killer. Guess what? The groom AND John Wakefield were both killers. They always acted like there was only one, trying to allow people to figure out who the killer was because of things that occured during the show. After all, person A couldn't be the killer if they were shown talking to person B while person C was hacked apart. Having two killers, one of whom we only see more than halfway through the series, invalidates that entire idea. And going for the cliche of the killer being the groom AND the cliche of the old killer being alive just ruined it for me.

Mind you, the late season had some beautiful moments in my opinion. The scene where Chloe throws herself off the bridge after telling Wakefield that 'You can't have me' just after watching her lover, Cal, be impaled and thrown off the same bridge was a wonderful moment. The entire final episode after the reveal was very well done and entirely creepy, so well done it somewhat helped the burn from the reveals. But they weren't enough to heal the wounded show at that point, at least not to me.

Callate said:
No. No. No. Wrong. No.

Lost at least had an ending that it was allowed to get to. It had characters who actually stayed more or less in character, and occasionally even got to develop. It had things that happened that had consequences that there wasn't any getting out of. Yes, it threw a lot of half-realized nonsense into the mix, especially towards the end, and barreled along before you could look at it too hard, but it still held on to all of the above.

Heroes couldn't stick to anything. Characters did wildly out-of-character things because the script said they should, and character arcs twisted back to destroy their own development. Powers came and went and came again, functioned differently at different times without explanation. Characters died, not even so much in a "life's not fair" way but in a "oops, moving on" way.

Bottom line: I watched Lost through to the end; I just couldn't stomach watching any more bungling of whatever had been worthwhile in Heroes after about mid-way through season 3. I think the judgement on this one was dead wrong.
But that isn't the point I think. They aren't arguing which is the worse show. They're arguing which one had jumped the shark the most. I've not seen either, but the general fact that Heroes just couldn't seem to do anything right, especially past the first season, just sounds like it makes it a poor show to start with and it went on a continous downhill track from there. Lost sounds like it had some good stuff, but it just kept getting worse and worse from the first three seasons or so. Which means that Heroes only really jumped the shark once before it got bad. Lost, on the other hand, sounds like it managed to bring viewers on a roller-coaster of interest which gave them some hope but smashed that hope before long.
 

Roroshi14

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Am I the only one who liked the complete second season of Heroes? It introduced my favorite character Daphne! After she died then I quickly lost interest in the show though. Then the last season seemed like it could go somewhere, but it didnt so... ehh only a few good things came out of that show. First my discovery of Brea Grants and two I cant watch How I Met Your Mother without seeing Ted's mom and saying "'ey it's Ms. Petrelli!"
 

lastjustice

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I didn't watch lost, but I watched every episode of Heroes. I really enjoyed the first season 1 and the episode Family man was one of the best of the show. I continued watching it mostly because I talked about on forums with a community and was something we all did every week.(On the city of heroes forums when the game still existed.) The Show suffered from several problems.

- One it was meant only have the characters for each season stick around for one season then drop down to supporting afterwards.NBC execs then went and said No , you re going keep the same guys since you did so well after Volume 1. So Volume2 they half ass their intentions and the writer strike happens.It forced the show to keep retreading the same ground all too often.

- Let's show a door syndrome. This show would build up stuff, and almost never had any decent pay offs. I get they didn't want to make the show about action, but given the source material and the logical conclusion scuffles would happen. Due to the network TV budget, we were in for some majot let downs when it came to throwdowns.(the first transformers movie suffer from LSAD syndrome , as every time two robots would fight, they d show what sam or humans were doing instead or tranformers in vehicle mode since it's cheaper to show that.) Sylar the big bad of Season 1, Peter tackles him off a set of stairs. He get's hit by a chalk board by Molhinder. Future versions of Sylar and Peter go to fight, well we just see a door flashing instead since it's cheaper to imply a fight than show it. They unfornately did it again in chapter 4 when nathan and Peter battle Sylar together. This show needed a bigger budget.

- Characters were stuck in limbo. Some characters Like Peter and Hiro were main to protaganists of the show usually, and usually the main characters trying to do good. Probelm was both became entirely too powerful too quickly by end of the first season. So in order make things interesting the two regularly got written out of the story so all bad things could happen they either of them could solve in 5 secs or when they were around they suffered plot induced stupidity. They were both nerfed by the 3rd chapter since they were basically walking plot devices by then.(big bad of season 3 steals both Hiros and Peters powers.) Amazingly Peter goes from being one of the dumbest characters on the show to one of the most clever immediately after he gets nerfed. Both settle in a bit after this point as they operate at much easier to write levels(Peter can only absorb one power at a time, and Hiro uses his powers sparingly or it will kill him.), but the damage had been done already.

The inability to commit to the characters growth seemed to riddle the entire cast for most part. only handful of times did we see character grow and it stuck in a meaningful way. Hiro and Parkman are ones of the I say actually changed over the course of the show. Molhinder never could do anything right.Claire and Her dad keep playing the we love each and suddenly can't trust each other game for all 5 chapters. Nathan can't see to decide if he wants to be a hero or a sellout. Sylar can't decide what he wants to do ...ever. Season 3 had several ideas that could have worked and been cool directions. I don't care which one you went with just pick one and stick with it for a bit.

- Bunch of characters just suddenly died or disappeared. DL was killed off camera in season 2.They might as well had him die from the injuries of season 1's finale instead of drawing it out in flashbacks and having him die a pointless death. Monica had cool powers like the taskmaster...she was just gone. Maya and her brother were entirely pointless as neither ever did anything worth adding them to the mix. Plenty of characters just got wacked out of nowhere. if you don't care about your characters then why should the audience?

I could probably go on, but under all BS were some really awesome moments that made you see the potential the show had to be great that never was fully realized. Showed us some that stirred emotions or imagination. Hiro and Charlie's story was one of my favorite parts of the show, partly because I was going thru a simliar experience of a love story that just wasn't meant to be no matter how perfect it could have been. I wished I could have gone back and time back time, try again get it right. Hiro couldn't I couldn't either. We had to be stronger and accept things as they were. It was bitter sweet, but like Hiro I wish for my dream girl to found happiness too without me. Also the court room episode Hiro has in his head is full of soo much win. I definitely don't regret watching it even if it never hit the notes it should have been. Sometimes we have watch someone play icarus to know how to really fly.
 

Gizmo1990

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synobal said:
The problem with TV is, no one is willing to let a show go when it's finished. If it's still making money, has good ratings etc they've got to continue the show no matter what. Supernatural was a good example of this. In my opinion they should of ended it after the whole apocalypse plot was resolved. I was expecting that but they continued it and well. I dunno I've heard people say it's still good but I couldn't get past the whole soulless Sam season.

They should of just let it end with a nice ending, now it's going to go on until they decide to axe it and it will have an either terrible cobbled together "end" episode or it will just stop mid plot and leave all it's balls hanging in the air for ever.
YES!!! I completly agree. It was ment to end at season 5 but The CW wanted more. The show creator left so it was passed over to other people. I stopped watching about 2 episodes into season 6 but wiki has kept me up to date. The problem I have with it is that you cannot beat the Devil for a bad guy. They were fighting Lucifer himself in an effort to prevent the apocalypse. You cannot top that. Now the show just feels very small and really boring.
 

Wolcik

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After listening to your podcast I love NoRightAnwser even more - are there any podcast with you guys anywhere? What's Kayle's site?

The Possom man is on his way - Im working on design, should I sent the raw sketches?
 

RubyT

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Lost was one of the best shows ever in Seasons 1 and 2, a good show in 3, became mediocre in 4 and 5 and was mostly just bad TV in 6. Most TV shows lose focus sooner or later, they begin to add too many characters and too many sub and side plots. They feel like well-produced soap operas.

But there is no way to really end a show like Lost well. NO explanation will ever be good. Twist endings have all been done and they're almost impossible to pull off in a TV show - as opposed to a movie - because of all the time spent on it. A twist ending will probably contradict too many things and it will just invalidate everything before.
And all non-twist endings to Lost will be either mundane (yeah, it's just people and technology) or supernatural (angels, aliens, whatnot).

Heroes was an awesome show for half a season and decent for the second half. The writer's strike gutted it in season 2 and it never recovered. A bit sad.