No Right Answer: What Do We Want in the Justice League Movie?

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What Do We Want in the Justice League Movie?

Since DC and WB are MIA in the good ideas department, Chris and Kyle step in to save the day. Can they save the Justice League movie before Marvel earns all the money?

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Nice one guys, and while you made a lot of good points I just want Wonder Woman to be awesome. Thats all. If everything else in the movie fails, I will be ok with it, as long as WW kicks ass in every way. I mean as in kicks some literal ass and as in metaphorical ass.

I need a GREAT female super-hero to be something else than tits-on-a-rack. For being a country that is SO fucking hung up in killing sexuality, I just cant understand that sex has to be the underlying focus in every female "character" ever. Please. Just make her great. Not good, GREAT. So great people will think: why the fuck are we spending so much time on Superman, Wonder Woman is SO much more interesting!

 

[McMarbles]

I want it to be "not crap".

Can that be done? 'Cus that'd be great. First thing we do is take out a restraining order on Snyder. I don't want him within 500 feet of a director's chair.

 

[Lightknight]

I would love to see a non-terrible female DC hero in the group. It's cute that JLA's secretary has become an icon but I can't think of a dumber hero with lamer utilities who started as a female bondage heroine (not joking, look it up) for creepy men and "budding boys" to fetishize over. But bullet proof bracelets, a lasso (formerly the lasso of obedience FYI), "invisible plane" and boomerang Tiara? I'm sorry, but no. The only reason why people say she is a "must" is because she has been the token female superhero in the DC universe. That doesn't make her cool or a good call or anything.

Hawkgirl/woman, Zatanna, Black Canary, and even Vixen would be more interesting choices that are currently in the JLA. There's even female Green Arrows and Jade who is a Green Lantern.

Wonder Woman has got to be one of the laziest choices. She is the epitome of grandfathered in and I think it's a bit robbing of the rich world of female heroes to have her as the face of it. Either they made her into a secretary or they delved into the realm of ultra-feminazi (as in all men should die Amazonian philosophy, not the equality rhetoric that many people erroneously claim is "feminazism" when it's just fairness philosophy). The only reason a lot of men remember her fondly is the same reason that so many people remember the original Tomb Raider fondly. She was there, and voluptuous at important developmental periods of life.

Ummm? Black Canary and Zatana have kinda similar fetishy male fantasy origin issues. The whole fishnets and stilettos thing. Hawkwoman as originally conceived is almost as bad in the opposite direction being a bit of a June Cleaver doting submissive wife and house mother. (with just a smidgen of naughty housewife/Betty Paige'ish looks thrown in.). Vixen would be much better in this regard simply because she was a much more recent character, and lacks the baggage and weirdness from mid 20th century.

I'm not sure fishnets/stilettos qualifies the same as a heroine specifically made to appeal to the whole bondage crowds. Heck sexy costumes are still the norm. You didn't see my complaint being that her skirt is too short, did you? Remember, Wonderwoman was bad in both directions. Either she was the feminazi or she was the JLA's secretary. There's almost no group she wouldn't offend. There's nothing socially improper about someone being a house wife. Unless women who choose to live that way are somehow worth less than others who pursue a different career path. Feminism isn't bad either. It's just when someone breaches the territory of feminazism (women over men as superior beings) or saying that women shouldn't enter the workforce that it's bad. Frankly, it's actually a little offensive that you'd call a housewife a bad thing.

But I also reference the sheer silliness of WonderWoman's powers as a point here. Seriously, boomerang tiara, bullet proof bracelets (this implies of course that bullets would otherwise hurt her if she didn't block them), invisible jet(how the hell does that fall into her mythos), and a lasso of truth which was originally the lasso of obedience.

I didn't believe that she was that kind of character until I really read some of the earlier comics of hers. But sure enough, every other issue was her tied up and her female friends getting spanked. What's that scene with her chewing through the mouth part of those zipper bondage masks? There is no other female character that has more bondage. Simply dressing sexily or being a house wife simply doesn't compare.

 

[faefrost]

I would love to see a non-terrible female DC hero in the group. It's cute that JLA's secretary has become an icon but I can't think of a dumber hero with lamer utilities who started as a female bondage heroine (not joking, look it up) for creepy men and "budding boys" to fetishize over. But bullet proof bracelets, a lasso (formerly the lasso of obedience FYI), "invisible plane" and boomerang Tiara? I'm sorry, but no. The only reason why people say she is a "must" is because she has been the token female superhero in the DC universe. That doesn't make her cool or a good call or anything.

Hawkgirl/woman, Zatanna, Black Canary, and even Vixen would be more interesting choices that are currently in the JLA. There's even female Green Arrows and Jade who is a Green Lantern.

Wonder Woman has got to be one of the laziest choices. She is the epitome of grandfathered in and I think it's a bit robbing of the rich world of female heroes to have her as the face of it. Either they made her into a secretary or they delved into the realm of ultra-feminazi (as in all men should die Amazonian philosophy, not the equality rhetoric that many people erroneously claim is "feminazism" when it's just fairness philosophy). The only reason a lot of men remember her fondly is the same reason that so many people remember the original Tomb Raider fondly. She was there, and voluptuous at important developmental periods of life.

Ummm? Black Canary and Zatana have kinda similar fetishy male fantasy origin issues. The whole fishnets and stilettos thing. Hawkwoman as originally conceived is almost as bad in the opposite direction being a bit of a June Cleaver doting submissive wife and house mother. (with just a smidgen of naughty housewife/Betty Paige'ish looks thrown in.). Vixen would be much better in this regard simply because she was a much more recent character, and lacks the baggage and weirdness from mid 20th century.

I'm not sure fishnets/stilettos qualifies the same as a heroine specifically made to appeal to the whole bondage crowds. Heck sexy costumes are still the norm. You didn't see my complaint being that her skirt is too short, did you? Remember, Wonderwoman was bad in both directions. Either she was the feminazi or she was the JLA's secretary. There's almost no group she wouldn't offend. There's nothing socially improper about someone being a house wife. Unless women who choose to live that way are somehow worth less than others who pursue a different career path. Feminism isn't bad either. It's just when someone breaches the territory of feminazism (women over men as superior beings) or saying that women shouldn't enter the workforce that it's bad. Frankly, it's actually a little offensive that you'd call a housewife a bad thing.

But I also reference the sheer silliness of WonderWoman's powers as a point here. Seriously, boomerang tiara, bullet proof bracelets (this implies of course that bullets would otherwise hurt her if she didn't block them), invisible jet(how the hell does that fall into her mythos), and a lasso of truth which was originally the lasso of obedience.

I didn't believe that she was that kind of character until I really read some of the earlier comics of hers. But sure enough, every other issue was her tied up and her female friends getting spanked. What's that scene with her chewing through the mouth part of those zipper bondage masks? There is no other female character that has more bondage. Simply dressing sexily or being a house wife simply doesn't compare.

While Black Cannary and Zatana are not quite as bad as WW (Bill Marsten really was an outstanding example of creepy freak. And a psychologist! Bonus!) They are still tapping quite a bit of fetish there. granted nothing to the degree of Wonder Womans undertones of Bondage and dominance and kink. BC and Z tend to be more at the "erotic roleplay end of the spectrum" WW is pegging the meter at "rope work and pain play". But they all indicate underlying artists who really need to get out in the fresh air more, and maybe meet some real women. (OK we probably should agree that Marstens was better kept away from real women.)

 

[Lightknight]

While Black Cannary and Zatana are not quite as bad as WW (Bill Marsten really was an outstanding example of creepy freak. And a psychologist! Bonus!) They are still tapping quite a bit of fetish there. granted nothing to the degree of Wonder Womans undertones of Bondage and dominance and kink. BC and Z tend to be more at the "erotic roleplay end of the spectrum" WW is pegging the meter at "rope work and pain play". But they all indicate underlying artists who really need to get out in the fresh air more, and maybe meet some real women. (OK we probably should agree that Marstens was better kept away from real women.)

Well sure. But their costumes can always be altered since their costumes haven't been stable over the years and so are nowhere as iconic as Wonderwoman's costume is.

But WonderWoman as a character has got to be one of the worst mainstream characters in general. What I'm saying isn't that the female characters have no negative side but rather that nearly any other female mainstream hero would be a better iconic token female than this specific one. While you're right that there is still some fetish in those characters costumes, it seem you also agree that those characters are to a much lesser degree what WonderWoman is on the offense side. She's just been around for a very long time and has been scantily clad enough the whole time to capture males attention. Don't you think it's a little bit backwards to have a pro-feminist Amazon character fighting in a bathing suit?

Though, I'd say that Wonderwoman's costume itself is far more revealing too so there's almost no area she's better at. Usually her costume is just one-piece bathing suit, sometimes it's a mini-skirt over the one-piece. Black Canary and Zatanna (Zatanna is actually one of my favorite characters) vary wildly according to artist. The difference between WW's one-piece and Black Canary's ensemble is the general attractiveness of the costume. I considered Black Canary's gear to be a onepiece bathing suit, net leggings with knee-high boots, and a small jacket. It's actually quite a bit less skin but you're right that it certainly does fall more into the realm of risque whereas a bikini for some reason that eludes me does not. Artists often run with Black Canary's gear quite a bit but originally Black Canary barely had any skin showing at all (compare with this earlier shot of Wonderwoman):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/71/Blackcanaryjusticeleague64.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/52/Wonder_woman_02.jpg

So you see, Wonder Woman started off in that way whereas black canary slowly became what she is today.

Zatanna goes either way. A lot of the time she's wearing the top half of a tuxedo (with coat tails) with pantyhose (not fish net) leggings. Hardly risque comparatively though I do recall at least one artist taking it really far out there by replacing the vest with a corsette and replacing the pantyhose with nets which may be what you're thinking about but isn't the norm. What's more, her costume can be drastically changed:

<spoiler= Larger Image but not huge>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/03/ZDCnU.jpg

See, the difference between WonderWoman and these heroes is that her costume is famous. These other heroes are alterable. Too many liberties with WonderWoman and people get upset. But make no mistake, leaving her in that costume on the big screen would also likely look silly too. The notion of an Amazon warrior in a bathing suit is hilariously backwards though. But, I'll add this, it isn't inherently wrong for women to have sexy costumes. My contention with WW is moreso her utterly clashing and sordid past along with her idiotic utilites. She brings nothing to the table and hardly pulls on her greek mythos except when someone is explaining the character.

You know who would be great if they changed her name? Mary Marvel. Though maybe the name would still work since the movies don't really use their hero names (Captain America would say Tony, not Iron Man). Her and Captain Marvel have been particular favorites of mine for some time now. She basically is WonderWoman but minus the Amazon bit and sordid past and is an old mainstay at 1942 (just a year after Wonder Woman).

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/6/66303/3134848-mary.jpg