This is why I decided to read some of the thread before posting. I thought SURELY someone gets it and this guy does. Neglectful father vs someone who physically scared his son for life and then through him out of the country. I can't fathom how people can say that a dad who is flaky and often absent is worse than a dad who (irl equivalent) puts their son's face on a lit stovetop and then throws their son out to be homeless. Why did he do this, btw? Because his son disagreed with him. Goku is simply a poor father. Ozai is monstrous.honestdiscussioner said:
No Right Answer: Worst Father Ever
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I've long argued that Goku was a terrible dad before this episode but, I still have to give my vote to Ozai. Ozai is a horrible parent even when he wasn't trying to be. The son who he deemed a failure, was scarred, banished, and eventually abandon the nation to fight for the good guys. But what about that daughter of his that he prized so much? Well she grew up into a total psycho, with no real friends, and had a mental breakdown, leaving her a sobbing mass of crazy.
At least when Goku tries to be active in Gohan's life Gohan tends to get stronger for it.
At least when Goku tries to be active in Gohan's life Gohan tends to get stronger for it.
I'm going with Ozai as damaging as it is to have your parents abandon you. I think actual physical abuse followed by favoring another child would fuck you up a lot worse. It's harder for the child to rationalize that they have a 'bad dad' when they see him be a good dad to his other kid.
flakey and a bit selfish vs. actual abuse and active hatred.
flakey and a bit selfish vs. actual abuse and active hatred.
Someone who doesn't like anime isn't going to realize that.restoshammyman said:
Well, that is the case. On top of that, if you consider Toriyama intended to end the series after the Cell Games he doesn't seem that bad about Goten either. Odds are he hadn't even intended for Chichi to be with child when Goku died.Beryl77 said:
That part of the story always got me a little frightened honestly. Goku and Gohan in their Super Saiyan states were shown to have little control over their strength as they kept breaking furniture and dishes on accident. So did Goten's conception go that rough or was it prior to the mastery of the Super Saiyan...
1. Avatar is not anime. seriously.
2. How is "Ozai's just a dick to everyone" justification for his horrible parenting, and make Goku worse?? if anything, that's proof Ozais a terrible parent. The decision should be based on who treats their kids better.
3. There's no way that the guy who raised that psycho Azula is a better parent than Goku.
2. How is "Ozai's just a dick to everyone" justification for his horrible parenting, and make Goku worse?? if anything, that's proof Ozais a terrible parent. The decision should be based on who treats their kids better.
3. There's no way that the guy who raised that psycho Azula is a better parent than Goku.
Because Goku is a better example of a good human being . . . the other dude (whatever his name is. I've never watched Avatar). is the worse father.
It has to be Goku. Goku is such a bad father that two of the original bad guys turn out to be better parents than him.
Picollo steps in as the major father figure for Gohan whilst Goku is off doing other things. And Vegeta for all his selfish power hungry personality actually by the end of the series becomes a deeply caring father and husband even if he doesn't say so very often, oh and whats Goku doing during all of this? thats right training with some kid. Goku's such a bad Dad he doesn't even realise.
Picollo steps in as the major father figure for Gohan whilst Goku is off doing other things. And Vegeta for all his selfish power hungry personality actually by the end of the series becomes a deeply caring father and husband even if he doesn't say so very often, oh and whats Goku doing during all of this? thats right training with some kid. Goku's such a bad Dad he doesn't even realise.
Goku loves his family so much that after Cell was killed he thought he should stay dead so the whole planet would stop having people coming around trying to take it over or destroy it he tried to train his son to be a better replacement and later on Uub in the hopes that he wouldn't need to be the main defender of the planet anymore maybe meaning he'd get more time with his family?Rarhnor said:
Ozai on the other hand had no issues trying to kill his son not once but twice 1st when Ozai himself tried to get a grab for power by passing Iroh to be the next FireLord and again during the day of Black Sun right after the eclipse by shooting Lightning at him face to face.Wait make that 2 and a half the fire-bender duel is probably considered finish-able by killing your opponent with no problem meaning without Zuko's refusal Ozai might not have stopped with just beating/defeating his son.
Goku never actually beat his kids(Only trained with them to make each other stronger)
Ozai wouldn't wait to kill them if they didn't benefit him being alive.
Goku died a few times while saving the planet several times
Ozai betrayed his brother's rite of passage because Iroh stopped his attack when his son died.
Ozai's worse because he's actively negative with his kids,while Goku might be gone for long tracks of time (Full Metal Alchemist) he's never passed up a chance to be with his family when he was on earth and a crisis wasn't around the corner.(Except for when he met Uub.)
Goku, by far. The father that doesn't know he's being bad is worse than the one that intentionally endangers his kid.
Defending Their Kid:
Goku: Sacrifices his own life (multiple times, mind) to save not only the world but, more importantly in his mind, his son.
Ozai: Would sacrifice his son for more power.
Point: Goku
Teaching Their Kid:
Goku: Teaches son how to train, fight, and generally maintain exceptionally good physical health in between studies (note that Gohan turns out to be a scholar, not a fighter). He also clearly knows his sons abilities and limits, and uses that knowledge to bring out the best in his son. Throwing Gohan against Cell, Goku knew for sure that Gohan was going to win. Keep in mind that Goku's entire starting fight was to make sure Cell's power was where he thought it was, and that Gohan could actually beat him.
Ozai: Burns his own kid's face, doesn't teach him much of anything once he realized Azula is the more powerful, generally ignores Zuko. Not only that, but he taught Azula to be batshit crazy.
Point: Goku
Abandoning Their Kid:
Goku: In the process of sacrificing himself to protect his son, he leaves his family behind. He also ensures Gohan has a father-figure in Piccolo, and Chi Chi is more than capable of taking care of a house by herself.
Ozai: Kicks his kid out after disfiguring him, then banishes him from all of his friends and family. Iroh accompanies Zuko because he doesn't want to abandon his nephew, not because Ozai does anything to help his son. In fact, the only reason Zuko was able to get anything done at all was because his uncle still had influence in the Fire Nation. After years of being gone, Zuko is only accepted back because Ozai believed he killed the Avatar (keep in mind, Goku strongly encouraged Gohan's passivism). Not only that, but Ozai wasn't there for Zuko during his childhood in the first place, despite not being dead like Goku was.
Point: Goku
End result is Goku is a better dad, hands down.
Goku: Sacrifices his own life (multiple times, mind) to save not only the world but, more importantly in his mind, his son.
Ozai: Would sacrifice his son for more power.
Point: Goku
Teaching Their Kid:
Goku: Teaches son how to train, fight, and generally maintain exceptionally good physical health in between studies (note that Gohan turns out to be a scholar, not a fighter). He also clearly knows his sons abilities and limits, and uses that knowledge to bring out the best in his son. Throwing Gohan against Cell, Goku knew for sure that Gohan was going to win. Keep in mind that Goku's entire starting fight was to make sure Cell's power was where he thought it was, and that Gohan could actually beat him.
Ozai: Burns his own kid's face, doesn't teach him much of anything once he realized Azula is the more powerful, generally ignores Zuko. Not only that, but he taught Azula to be batshit crazy.
Point: Goku
Abandoning Their Kid:
Goku: In the process of sacrificing himself to protect his son, he leaves his family behind. He also ensures Gohan has a father-figure in Piccolo, and Chi Chi is more than capable of taking care of a house by herself.
Ozai: Kicks his kid out after disfiguring him, then banishes him from all of his friends and family. Iroh accompanies Zuko because he doesn't want to abandon his nephew, not because Ozai does anything to help his son. In fact, the only reason Zuko was able to get anything done at all was because his uncle still had influence in the Fire Nation. After years of being gone, Zuko is only accepted back because Ozai believed he killed the Avatar (keep in mind, Goku strongly encouraged Gohan's passivism). Not only that, but Ozai wasn't there for Zuko during his childhood in the first place, despite not being dead like Goku was.
Point: Goku
End result is Goku is a better dad, hands down.
Ozai while harsh DOES offer some form of redemption to his child. Sure it seems impossible, but you have to remember that he eventually does do it and Ozai lets him back into the Fire Nation, royal treatment and all. Goku just leaves his kid and doesn't really offer him anything.
Goku is worse.
Goku is worse.
Goku is disqualified from the contest by being legally retarded.
Ozai was (presumably) of sound mind and body when he did all those horrible things to Zuko.
Goku at age 18 literally didn't know the difference between marriage and steak, thought the moon was made of cheese and thought flirting involved punching the girl in the solarplexus.
Everything that went wrong in Zuko's life can be blamed on Ozai.
In Gohan's case, the one most at fault was clearly the child protection agency.
To be frank I am amazed Chi-Chi wasn't locked up for statuatory rape after Gohan's conception.
Ozai was (presumably) of sound mind and body when he did all those horrible things to Zuko.
Goku at age 18 literally didn't know the difference between marriage and steak, thought the moon was made of cheese and thought flirting involved punching the girl in the solarplexus.
Everything that went wrong in Zuko's life can be blamed on Ozai.
In Gohan's case, the one most at fault was clearly the child protection agency.
To be frank I am amazed Chi-Chi wasn't locked up for statuatory rape after Gohan's conception.
Goku is the worse of the two, at least Ozai is evil he represents evil in all ways so being a craptastic father fits. Goku on the other hand is more or less the hero of everything in DB,DBZ and so on yet his son actually modeled himself after one of his rivals Piccolo to the point that he dressed like him. Goku also seems to have the IQ of well what he is a guy who never went to school.
Ozai. Goku at least had good intentions and legitimate reasons for putting his sons in dangerous situations. Ozai was a dick for the sake of dickishness.
Well, by far, the worst father ever is Ozai. I don't have much of an argument. Goku is just a bad parent. Ozai essentially said, "Leave, never come back, ever, unless you find something really mind blowing, like a kid who hasn't been seen for 100 years." Goku just had some dick moves, nothing more.