No Right Answer: Worst Father Ever
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Wow.
Hmmm, well I'd have to give this one to Ozai to be honest. While he did "properly" raise one of his children to become an equally evil twit, he did undergo some epic fail with Zuko despite Zuko's own arrogance issues.
Goku at least believes he's leaving his kids with capable surrogate parents most of the time, he's no worse than say parents who work all the time and hire professional nannies, that's not good, but it's not entirely evil either.
Ozai on the other hand exiled his son, expecting him to die. Really Zuko only got by because his enemies really weren't all that bad, and because the crazy old man he was with, wasn't really a lunatic. If things went the way Ozai expected Zuko would have died a horrible, humiliating death.
See, I haven't seen all of Avatar (or much DBZ at all) but I know the basics. With "Avatar" I used to think that Ozai exiled his son, intending the experience to toughen him up, show him wisdom and humility, etc... when Ozai finally started to appear though what I saw pretty much fell into the "total douche" catagory on this issue at least. If there was anything redeeming about his relationship with Zuko, I don't remember ever seeing it.
Goku at least has good intentions, and leaves Gohan with people that he generally believes should be able to support him. Ozai does not.
Hmmm, well I'd have to give this one to Ozai to be honest. While he did "properly" raise one of his children to become an equally evil twit, he did undergo some epic fail with Zuko despite Zuko's own arrogance issues.
Goku at least believes he's leaving his kids with capable surrogate parents most of the time, he's no worse than say parents who work all the time and hire professional nannies, that's not good, but it's not entirely evil either.
Ozai on the other hand exiled his son, expecting him to die. Really Zuko only got by because his enemies really weren't all that bad, and because the crazy old man he was with, wasn't really a lunatic. If things went the way Ozai expected Zuko would have died a horrible, humiliating death.
See, I haven't seen all of Avatar (or much DBZ at all) but I know the basics. With "Avatar" I used to think that Ozai exiled his son, intending the experience to toughen him up, show him wisdom and humility, etc... when Ozai finally started to appear though what I saw pretty much fell into the "total douche" catagory on this issue at least. If there was anything redeeming about his relationship with Zuko, I don't remember ever seeing it.
Goku at least has good intentions, and leaves Gohan with people that he generally believes should be able to support him. Ozai does not.
worst father?, Ozai natch (say what you will about Goku, at least he didn't try to actively murder his own flesh & blood kid)
oh boy! after getting through the thread, I have to still say Ozai.
lets go down the list, yes?
first of all, keep in mind Goku's own parenting. he was essentially a semi-wild child when Dragon ball started, after his care giver Gohan died. even if you ignore the fact his race was known for sending their own children off on planet obliteration missions (circa DBZ), you have to allow for his lack of common social knowledge. being a father wasn't one of them. Being a good PERSON was.
as for his "abandoning" of gohan to piccolo: no. Goku was dead, Piccolo was there, saw the kids power, wanted to train it. NOBODY could have stopped him from doing so, since he was the strongest person left there. Piccolo eventually becomes gohan's second father, yes, but I think the excuse of "I died to help save everyone, INCLUDING my son" gets goku off the hook there.
as for the other times by series Gohan was abandoned by Goku, (that i remember) we have the end of the namek saga, and if you count it, the ending of the cell and majin sagas. no, we do not bother to count GT.
admitted, the majin saga is a ??? moment, and the namek saga ending almost caused trouble, but even then Goku had instant trasmission and was intending to stop the starting events when trunks stepped in. but the Cell saga I got. remember, ever since DBZ started every villain character that came to earth was to seek Goku out. raditz, Nappa, Vegeta,Freeza (after his saga ended), and ALL of the androids including cell all had a bone to pick with goku. he figured that if he stayed around he'd cause even more trouble on earth, so he stayed dead at the end of the cell saga thinking it would save everyone trouble. at least, until executive meddling and the majin into GT...
Gohan went to Namek to save piccolo who he respected, and when Goku did have time with Gohan he still wasn't a bad father in any respect. if memory serves Goku and Chichi also got along well despite all the mess they had, and goku did agree to let gohan become a scholar once all the mess of the androids was averted. if occasional abandonment's is all there is on his list, considering he may as well be the Japanese superman for the amount of punishment he took and lives he tried to save, then Ozai... Ozai wins.
Goku may be an idiot at times, but his hearts in the right place. Ozai? oh boy, lets see...
multiple attempts to kill Zuko, banishing Zuko for backtalk, scarring his face and forcing him to go hunt for a person that's been missing for 100 years... and yet whenever Zuko has the chance in the early seasons, he tried to get back in his fathers good graces. never mind what happened to his mother so Ozai could get on the throne in the first place.
Ozai was a maniac who used his kids as chips to get what he wanted. he prepped Azula into what we first saw her as, and she turned out to be JUST a trip herself. She threatened and manipulated people, and would have killed Zuko to, but she knew how much he wanted to be back in dear ol dads good graces, and used that almost as often as fire bending on him. when all that back-drafted on her.. it literally gave me chills. yeah. while you can argue Goten didn't get anything from Goku, I'm pretty sure we've got Ozais full range of parenting issues at hand here.
the kid he hates gets scarred for life and multiple murder attempts put on his head, and the one he favors goes bonkers. that's 0 for 2, Ozai. at least when Goku put Gohan in harms way, he had a reason of proving gohan was stronger then him at the time, and was able to save the world, despite the craziness of the move.
People here are giving Ozai a pass because he was already a bad guy. y'know what? Goku may not be a good father by any stretch, but ill take a self-sacrificing father that keeps the planet I live on from destruction even if i don't get to see him, versus being beaten around by a king who doesn't want anything to do with me unless I can be a political chip somehow. oh, and intended to incinerate everyone to fulfill his aims of global conquest.
But really, both fathers are busy busy folks. still though, even though Ozai wins this round, he would lose to Charles Zi Britannia (Ozai 3.0) and Gendo Ikari (mindscrew case #1) in this one.
ho boy. addenda (TLDR): Ozai by landslide, even accounting for Goku's parental stupidity. remember, who'd you'd rather have, an abusive dad, or a well meaning one that has to leave for years to do things that are for the good of everyone else?
still, neither compared to Gendo Ikari or Charles zi Britannia.
lets go down the list, yes?
first of all, keep in mind Goku's own parenting. he was essentially a semi-wild child when Dragon ball started, after his care giver Gohan died. even if you ignore the fact his race was known for sending their own children off on planet obliteration missions (circa DBZ), you have to allow for his lack of common social knowledge. being a father wasn't one of them. Being a good PERSON was.
as for his "abandoning" of gohan to piccolo: no. Goku was dead, Piccolo was there, saw the kids power, wanted to train it. NOBODY could have stopped him from doing so, since he was the strongest person left there. Piccolo eventually becomes gohan's second father, yes, but I think the excuse of "I died to help save everyone, INCLUDING my son" gets goku off the hook there.
as for the other times by series Gohan was abandoned by Goku, (that i remember) we have the end of the namek saga, and if you count it, the ending of the cell and majin sagas. no, we do not bother to count GT.
admitted, the majin saga is a ??? moment, and the namek saga ending almost caused trouble, but even then Goku had instant trasmission and was intending to stop the starting events when trunks stepped in. but the Cell saga I got. remember, ever since DBZ started every villain character that came to earth was to seek Goku out. raditz, Nappa, Vegeta,Freeza (after his saga ended), and ALL of the androids including cell all had a bone to pick with goku. he figured that if he stayed around he'd cause even more trouble on earth, so he stayed dead at the end of the cell saga thinking it would save everyone trouble. at least, until executive meddling and the majin into GT...
Gohan went to Namek to save piccolo who he respected, and when Goku did have time with Gohan he still wasn't a bad father in any respect. if memory serves Goku and Chichi also got along well despite all the mess they had, and goku did agree to let gohan become a scholar once all the mess of the androids was averted. if occasional abandonment's is all there is on his list, considering he may as well be the Japanese superman for the amount of punishment he took and lives he tried to save, then Ozai... Ozai wins.
Goku may be an idiot at times, but his hearts in the right place. Ozai? oh boy, lets see...
multiple attempts to kill Zuko, banishing Zuko for backtalk, scarring his face and forcing him to go hunt for a person that's been missing for 100 years... and yet whenever Zuko has the chance in the early seasons, he tried to get back in his fathers good graces. never mind what happened to his mother so Ozai could get on the throne in the first place.
Ozai was a maniac who used his kids as chips to get what he wanted. he prepped Azula into what we first saw her as, and she turned out to be JUST a trip herself. She threatened and manipulated people, and would have killed Zuko to, but she knew how much he wanted to be back in dear ol dads good graces, and used that almost as often as fire bending on him. when all that back-drafted on her.. it literally gave me chills. yeah. while you can argue Goten didn't get anything from Goku, I'm pretty sure we've got Ozais full range of parenting issues at hand here.
the kid he hates gets scarred for life and multiple murder attempts put on his head, and the one he favors goes bonkers. that's 0 for 2, Ozai. at least when Goku put Gohan in harms way, he had a reason of proving gohan was stronger then him at the time, and was able to save the world, despite the craziness of the move.
People here are giving Ozai a pass because he was already a bad guy. y'know what? Goku may not be a good father by any stretch, but ill take a self-sacrificing father that keeps the planet I live on from destruction even if i don't get to see him, versus being beaten around by a king who doesn't want anything to do with me unless I can be a political chip somehow. oh, and intended to incinerate everyone to fulfill his aims of global conquest.
But really, both fathers are busy busy folks. still though, even though Ozai wins this round, he would lose to Charles Zi Britannia (Ozai 3.0) and Gendo Ikari (mindscrew case #1) in this one.
ho boy. addenda (TLDR): Ozai by landslide, even accounting for Goku's parental stupidity. remember, who'd you'd rather have, an abusive dad, or a well meaning one that has to leave for years to do things that are for the good of everyone else?
still, neither compared to Gendo Ikari or Charles zi Britannia.
Goku is supposed to be a good guy but he is even more absent and unhelpful to his child then Ozai was. I think that makes it worse.
So Goku is the worst.
I also vote Dan for worst judge ever.
So Goku is the worst.
I also vote Dan for worst judge ever.
Shouldn't this thread have a poll? It would make things a hell of a lot easier on you guys than having to read through all of this.Firefilm said:
My vote goes to Ozai, I've never seen the show but I know that Goku pretty much did everything with the best of intentions and just made a few too many stupid mistakes. Ozai, as others who have watched the show have pointed out, is just a dick throughout.
Worse father is Sparda from Devil May Cry, fo' srs.
Ozai. Why? Because for as much as he abandoned his son, Goku DID show up and defend. Ozai basically said, "get out and don't come back unless you show up with this mystical dude who may not exist anymore," which was his nice way of saying, "you're weak and a failure and I don't want to see you ever again ever."
Also, Ozai is evil. Evil will always triumph because good is dumb.
Also, Ozai is evil. Evil will always triumph because good is dumb.
Friggin Goku.
I remember in the Cel saga, he sends Gohan in to fight. At this point, Gohan is about 8-10 years old. And he's being sent to fight a weird bug guy whose been killing everyone. Not only that, just before the fight, Goku gives Cel a senzou bean, curing him of all his past injuries and making him fresh as a daisy.
To make the fight fair.
I remember in the Cel saga, he sends Gohan in to fight. At this point, Gohan is about 8-10 years old. And he's being sent to fight a weird bug guy whose been killing everyone. Not only that, just before the fight, Goku gives Cel a senzou bean, curing him of all his past injuries and making him fresh as a daisy.
To make the fight fair.
Okay, no matter how terrible a father Goku is and believe me he's an awful dad he's got nothing on the Fire Lord. While Goku is stupid and neglectful of Gohan, Ozai is downright malicious towards Zuko. You only need look at Zuko to see the results of Ozai's cruelty. Then of course we get to the point of Zuko being thrown out of the fire nation on what equates to the hunt for a unicorn. Can you just imagine having everything you cherish and hold dear taken away by a man who you believed must love you at least a bit?
Nope, I'll take a neglectful father over a downright abuser any day of the week. Ozai's got this one hand's down.
Nope, I'll take a neglectful father over a downright abuser any day of the week. Ozai's got this one hand's down.
For the kind of person Goku is supposed to represent (the good guy) he has to be the worst father. Ozai is expected to be a dick to his son on account of being an evil dick. Goku is a guy who protects people, saves lives, and fights off evil. Yet he cannot have a working relationship with his son or family. It's the kind of thing I'd like DC to try with Superman if the Lois Lane relationship is ever brought back. Then it'd be a bit more realistic.
And anime is pretty awesome if you find the right ones. Just like any TV/cartoon show.
And anime is pretty awesome if you find the right ones. Just like any TV/cartoon show.
The argument seems to boil down to "Is it worse to be neglectful to a child or abusive?". How does one measure one success of a father? I would assume that it would be based on how well a kid turns out based on the specific parenting style of the parent. Which would presumably be abusive and mean Ozai is the worse father. Although, i think it would awesome to have an actually psychologist weigh in on the issue, maybe escapists resident psychologist Dr. Mark?
A popular reason why Goku is nominated as the worse father is because he is a hypocrite. Personally, i fail to see how this would make him a worse father. Does being neglectful to your child but not the rest of the world cause your child to turn out any worse than if the father is neglectful to everyone?
A popular reason why Goku is nominated as the worse father is because he is a hypocrite. Personally, i fail to see how this would make him a worse father. Does being neglectful to your child but not the rest of the world cause your child to turn out any worse than if the father is neglectful to everyone?
Goku isn't the sharpest crayon in the box, but at least he TRIES to be a good person, not to mention saving Gohan's life on several occasions. And regarding leaving Gohan to face Cell, he was RIGHT, Gohan WAS the only one with enough power. And CELL was the only one strong enough to make him use it; sparring with Goku, he was able to hold his own without going NEAR his true potential.
Any argument about how bad a father Ozai is is only half formed if it doesn't address Azula. Yes, Ozai disfigured his own son and exiled him with an old coot everyone thought had more Bat sh*t than the cave floor.
Now look at the child he DIDN'T throw back. A fire bending prodigy who only knows how to related to her "friends" through fear and bullying, and who eventually devolves into paranoia (and possibly full blown hallucinations)when that world view of fear being able to rule everyone is proven incorrect. The girl is a sociopath at BEST.
Yes, I'd call CPS on Goku, but he does it because he's a drooling idiot.
Now look at the child he DIDN'T throw back. A fire bending prodigy who only knows how to related to her "friends" through fear and bullying, and who eventually devolves into paranoia (and possibly full blown hallucinations)when that world view of fear being able to rule everyone is proven incorrect. The girl is a sociopath at BEST.
Yes, I'd call CPS on Goku, but he does it because he's a drooling idiot.
Personally I love anime of all kinds but especially Japanese anime and even then I would say the majority of the series that emerge from Japan are a load of rubbish, hence I wouldn't pretend to know who is the worst father out of Goku and Ozai 
Perhaps Dan needs to see some of the classics/greats and maybe something the length of a film would be easier to digest than a whole series Here's a few suggestions and please, everyone, feel free to add your favourites or anything you think I've missed:
Akira (of course)
Ghost in the Shell (1 & 2, although 2 only for the artwork really)
Ninja Scroll (pure awesome)
Spriggan
Metropolis
Nausicaä of the valley of the wind
Princess Mononoke
Spirited Away
Castle in the Sky
The Castle of Cagliostro
There's many more I'm sure but those are my favourites I can think of right now.
Also, on a side note, I'd always recommend seeing Japanese anime with the original audio since the voice acting is usually 10 times better than the dubbed over versions.
Perhaps Dan needs to see some of the classics/greats and maybe something the length of a film would be easier to digest than a whole series Here's a few suggestions and please, everyone, feel free to add your favourites or anything you think I've missed:Akira (of course)
Ghost in the Shell (1 & 2, although 2 only for the artwork really)
Ninja Scroll (pure awesome)
Spriggan
Metropolis
Nausicaä of the valley of the wind
Princess Mononoke
Spirited Away
Castle in the Sky
The Castle of Cagliostro
There's many more I'm sure but those are my favourites I can think of right now.
Also, on a side note, I'd always recommend seeing Japanese anime with the original audio since the voice acting is usually 10 times better than the dubbed over versions.