NoE (seemingly) cuts Bravely Second's bad ends from sidequests.

[Quellist]

I gave up on the first game after i met a King described as 'King' who was an old, white-bearded guy in a purple robe. To me that is inexcusably lazy writing. Maybe i'm just funny like that.

Now i just fucking know i'm not bothering with the sequel. Yeah, i have high standards, but removing options/outcomes from sidequests is the kind of dumbing down we used to see back in the 90's. Worse even.

Fuck you Nintendo

 

[Fappy]

So there's this: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/740205-bravely-second-end-layer/73374165

Beware of spoilers!

Sounds like they altered the way some sidequests worked due to fan feedback. This isn't a case of censorship at all. Whether or not you agree with the decision, this is clearly just a design decision by the devs.

 

[SlumlordThanatos]

I haven't actually played the game yet myself, so I'm not 100% sure of this, but from what I have read, the endings to the sidequests were partially determined by your choices during the sidequest itself, but also by at what point in the main story that you decided to do the sidequest, with the best (sidequest) ending locked off unless you wait until a certain point in the plot, sometimes without any real indication that you can or should do this.
I, for one, tend to do every sidequest in a game like this as soon as it becomes available, and I would be rather annoyed in this situation, and that seems to have also been the consensus among many Japanese players.

That...makes a certain amount of sense. However, simply taking an axe to the content isn't quite the right way to go about it, if you ask me. Is there a way to simply cut out the plot requirements?

Still, this is all mostly just guesswork; we don't know how much of this is true, and whether or not it will make the final cut. We should still boost awareness and try to get some solid answers from the devs, but we should withhold judgment until we know more.

 

[McMarbles]

Yeah, this (if true) is actual substance getting cut.

I probably wasn't buying it anyway (never even finished the first one) but this isn't making me likely to change my mind.

So there's this: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/740205-bravely-second-end-layer/73374165

Beware of spoilers!

Sounds like they altered the way some sidequests worked due to fan feedback. This isn't a case of censorship at all. Whether or not you agree with the decision, this is clearly just a design decision by the devs.

Oh, huh, look at that. That changes things.

 

[Kina]

So there's this: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/740205-bravely-second-end-layer/73374165

Beware of spoilers!

Sounds like they altered the way some sidequests worked due to fan feedback. This isn't a case of censorship at all. Whether or not you agree with the decision, this is clearly just a design decision by the devs.

That's what I've been saying since the beginning of this. People need to stop going straight into "I'm offended and oppressed"-mode and think about it for a second.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

Ok, first of all, great game and praised JRPG? Not thought of as great and praised by me. The first one really got on my nerves, to the point where I never got far past the Templar fight. Story and gameplay both, story was riding on the plotline of "I'm not telling you really really important information even though I have no reason not to, instead I'm just going to yell about how stupid you are and fight you," and the grinding was getting stupid, especially when I was required to grind certain classes just to get through certain boss fights. So yeah I wasn't exactly in a position to be "mortified." What's more, especially considering that I checked the source and found it to be a little unreliable considering it was citing a forum post citing another forum post, and the article was essentially throwing a temper tantrum. So yeah. After that and something I perceived as an insult towards people who didn't get up in arms every single time a change was made, no matter how minor, which I fell into. With all of that in mind, I wasn't feeling very obligated to feel outraged about this change.

I feel even less reason to be outraged now that it's been revealed that the other endings were removed because of negative feedback from Japanese players.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

Well if that's what you want.

It's a little gray though, because not every change is inherently for the worse. In this case it's been revealed that the bad endings were apparently caused not by decisions that you made, but because of what point you arbitrarily decided to do them in the game, something that annoyed Japanese gamers apparently and the change was made because of that. Sometimes changes are smoothing things out, making things run better

Meh. Frankly sometimes people need a smack in the face from the mods and I needed one last night.

 

[Souplex]

fucking hell i knew this would happen. you let them get away with the small things and its only a matter of time before they start doing big things. and i was really looking forward to this game as well... i guess i might be able to find a used copy to play if im lucky at least that way the publisher wont get any more money from my purchase.

I blame the people who got worked up by the Fire Emblem cuts. It made it seem like people who care about cuts are fringe crazies, so now they can safely cut something of substance, much to the game's detriment.

 

[ToastyMozart]

Happy now? People kept quiet when some skimpy clothes got removed from Fatal Frame 5, people kept quite when NoA removed stuff from Xenoblade X, less but still too many people kept quiet (and even defended it) when Fire Emblem Fates was butchered, and people still kept quiet when Bravely Second got a class changed and clothes altered.
And now "actual" content got cut out for whatever stupid reason, you allowed censorship to happen and gave those companies the signal that you don't care, that it's okay to remove and alter content, now enjoy your award.

I'm not sure there's enough reason to draw a connection between costume censorship and having chunks cut from a game. Going Niemoller on it at this stage seems a smidge unwarranted.

I agree this is _totally_ overboard if it's being done for censorship reasons, rather than laziness or something, but it's hardly comparable to people being OK with changing 13-year-old minibikinis into sports bras. (The removal of the boob slider in X was pretty bullshit though.)

 

[RaikuFA]

So there's this: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/740205-bravely-second-end-layer/73374165

Beware of spoilers!

Sounds like they altered the way some sidequests worked due to fan feedback. This isn't a case of censorship at all. Whether or not you agree with the decision, this is clearly just a design decision by the devs.

Good work, Fappy.

Never finished the first due to how much padding there was hope this one gets rid of it.

 

[Something Amyss]

Happy now? People kept quiet when some skimpy clothes got removed from Fatal Frame 5, people kept quite when NoA removed stuff from Xenoblade X, less but still too many people kept quiet (and even defended it) when Fire Emblem Fates was butchered, and people still kept quiet when Bravely Second got a class changed and clothes altered.
And now "actual" content got cut out for whatever stupid reason, you allowed censorship to happen and gave those companies the signal that you don't care, that it's okay to remove and alter content, now enjoy your award.

People might want to wait a little longer, for like some real information on a subject before declaring the end of the world or whatever horrors come from edited games. Especially given some of the prior rumours which led to pearl clutching and cries of censorship turned out to be false.

Did you even look at this? The article reports based on a NeoGaf post linking to a tenuous video by a sketchy source.

Maybe before saying "you made this happen," make sure something is actually happening.

Especially for anyone around here bandying about the phrase "trust but verify."

Well, here's your chance to draw a line in the sand and refuse to buy the game.

I shall join you in this noble crusade! I too shall not buy Bravely... Thingy Whatsit.

I got the first game in a BOGO deal with the LOZ A Link Between Worlds. It was okay. I will also join in not buying this.

I will also not be buying Fire Emblem.

Somehow, though, I get the suspicion that overall, the people complaining will buy anyway. Or were never the customers, since I've seen more than a few people complaining who don't seem to know what these games are.

If you don't care enough about any game to feel it matters more than your sociopolitical agendas and opinions, this is what people pick up when they call you "not a true gamer" and whatnot. It's not your sex or gender or race, it's that.

And yet, accusations of me not being a "true gamer" predate any online expression of said sociopolitical beliefs or even any interest in games on that level. I just wanted to have fun, and people were complaining about that. Which is weird, given the number of people who claim they want politics out of games, but keep shoving it right into my face.

"True Gamers" are some of the most political people in gaming. They're just okay with the politics because the politics are their own.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Snip

Ok, first of all, great game and praised JRPG? Not thought of as great and praised by me. The first one really got on my nerves, to the point where I never got far past the Templar fight. Story and gameplay both, story was riding on the plotline of "I'm not telling you really really important information even though I have no reason not to, instead I'm just going to yell about how stupid you are and fight you," and the grinding was getting stupid, especially when I was required to grind certain classes just to get through certain boss fights. So yeah I wasn't exactly in a position to be "mortified." What's more, especially considering that I checked the source and found it to be a little unreliable considering it was citing a forum post citing another forum post, and the article was essentially throwing a temper tantrum. So yeah. After that and something I perceived as an insult towards people who didn't get up in arms every single time a change was made, no matter how minor, which I fell into. With all of that in mind, I wasn't feeling very obligated to feel outraged about this change.

I feel even less reason to be outraged now that it's been revealed that the other endings were removed because of negative feedback from Japanese players.

You aren't required to grind unless you're trying to do the vampire class quest earlier than you need, nor are you required to have some specific classes to beat bosses. Strategy always trumps broken skill combos like dark knights with blood drain spamming their op hp skils and regaining the lost hp back. The plot may have this element but the story is not at all about that. It's character driven and what you focus on is how the characters grow and interact with the world, that's where it shines. To not get that just means the game is not for you. Oh and it most definitely was very highly praised, to the point of getting SE to realize people still like classic Jrpgs. Do you know how hard to achieve that is lol.

What you mention regarding Japanese reactions is SPECULATION that people speculate from a premise that there has to be a good reason why this was done, which is bad logic first of all but also nothing remotely close to a revelation. Nobody of note confirmed it to be so. To use such a term to describe it is deceptive and dishonest, an attempt to divert attention from the problem.

So yeah, you don't care, we care, we don't care to discuss how much you don't care and have that take over our passionate displays of displeasure which stems from an honest place of desiring games to be as best they can (and are not an excuse we use to batter or silence people we disagree with, as whatever disagreement pales in comparison to the importance of something like this, which I think you still fail to grasp). I can't see how your disinterest is any more moral or just in origin, I'm afraid.

 

[lionsprey]

after skirting along the edges of the spoilers i can say that it seems like they basically cut out the middle of a lot of the side quests. which one could argue is good because the last game certainly had a lot of padding. however it is REAL cut content not just a costume or cosmetic but actual game. it might be boring or bad gameplay but its still gameplay

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

And you just named the quest that utterly killed my interest in the game. Of course if I was doing it earlier than I was supposed to, the game did a horrible job of explaining that. It was getting rather grindy before that, just in terms of sheer random encounters that were getting on my nerves. Yes I'm well aware of that. The problem with the characters is that I got all the way to the Templar fight, something I assume is roughly halfway through the game, and they were...ok. Nothing really that bad with them but nothing that really grabbed my attention. After several dozen hours of gameplay I didn't feel like I was getting enough results to justify the investment. It's not for me? What's that supposed to mean? I like JRPGs. I am of the opinion that this was a crap JRPG. Yes people did praise it, but here's the thing. I don't care. I base my reactions to games and the events around them on what I think of them, not what other people think of them.

If the source for the reason behind the change is just speculation, then this entire thing is just speculation, especially since the source cited was a forum post citing another forum post. No one has made an official statement about the endings being taken out at all, hasn't stopped people from jumping on that.

I did care. Not a whole lot but I didn't like the base idea of the change. Then the way people treated me (including the way you're treating me right now) made me ask myself why I should care if this was the way I was going to be treated. Couldn't come up with an answer for that. Point out how what I say is unjust or immoral and I'll consider changing my tune. Until then I'm not really getting that worked up over a change in a game that the developer seems to be doing to make it better. Didn't you just say that's what you wanted? You should be happy.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

And yet, accusations of me not being a "true gamer" predate any online expression of said sociopolitical beliefs or even any interest in games on that level. I just wanted to have fun, and people were complaining about that. Which is weird, given the number of people who claim they want politics out of games, but keep shoving it right into my face.

"True Gamers" are some of the most political people in gaming. They're just okay with the politics because the politics are their own.

It's not the expression of political beliefs that I was referring to. I was speaking about treating games apathetically, as though they're not all that important. Some people definitely do so by putting politics above them but politics isn't the only thing one can put above them.


If you wish to say that thinking games should matter and that gamres should prioritize what is best for games in their hearts is a political stance and not a natural thing for a lover of a medium to feel the I guess you're right but I don't agree with that definition. I think naturally feeling this way is what people point out, it brings a sense of camaraderie to do so and it entails a feeling to share this appreciation with everyone. That it looks down on those who lack it is overwritten by the desire to spread it to them too one day and share in the joy.

 

[RaikuFA]

Snip

Ok, first of all, great game and praised JRPG? Not thought of as great and praised by me. The first one really got on my nerves, to the point where I never got far past the Templar fight. Story and gameplay both, story was riding on the plotline of "I'm not telling you really really important information even though I have no reason not to, instead I'm just going to yell about how stupid you are and fight you," and the grinding was getting stupid, especially when I was required to grind certain classes just to get through certain boss fights. So yeah I wasn't exactly in a position to be "mortified." What's more, especially considering that I checked the source and found it to be a little unreliable considering it was citing a forum post citing another forum post, and the article was essentially throwing a temper tantrum. So yeah. After that and something I perceived as an insult towards people who didn't get up in arms every single time a change was made, no matter how minor, which I fell into. With all of that in mind, I wasn't feeling very obligated to feel outraged about this change.

I feel even less reason to be outraged now that it's been revealed that the other endings were removed because of negative feedback from Japanese players.

First off, the reason why people loved BD was because square was depriving JRPG fans for dumb reasons. And the game does start out wonderful.

Second your valid complaint about that plot point reminds me of this comic: http://awkwardzombie.com/index.php?page=0&comic=082514

(seriously that plot point was stupid)

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

I understand that and appreciate that. I'm just pointing out that I in particular didn't like it. And I liked Final Fantasy 4 and 6. I might go back and finish Bravely Default one day. MIGHT! But the vampire quest left a really bad taste in my mouth and as I spent time away from it I realized that it was...ok. Nothing really wrong with it but I started to realize tiny little nitpicks about it.

Look if you love it, awesome. I wish I could've liked it more, not liking a game isn't fun, despite what people say.

And yup, exactly what I was thinking.

 

[Mikeybb]

I didn't care about the outfit malarky or other connected things.
Of course, I understand it was important to some but it wasn't enough to make me weigh in on the subject.
As said above.
This is content.

Quest removal is something they need to respond over.
Take the time to explain why these options and questlines are being cut.

 

[Lightspeaker]

fucking hell i knew this would happen. you let them get away with the small things and its only a matter of time before they start doing big things. and i was really looking forward to this game as well... i guess i might be able to find a used copy to play if im lucky at least that way the publisher wont get any more money from my purchase.

I blame the people who got worked up by the Fire Emblem cuts. It made it seem like people who care about cuts are fringe crazies, so now they can safely cut something of substance, much to the game's detriment.

You might have a point if the backlash against all the Fire Emblem stuff was actually to any significant degree. Instead it was very, very muted; people let it be and criticised those who were trying to point it out as a bad thing that they were being allowed to just get away with. Hence the more reasonable assumption is the LACK of backlash against cuts such as the Fire Emblem ones has galvanised them into doing whatever the hell they want for whatever reason, because its been proven that not enough people complain for them to be worried about a backlash.

So actually, the fact that more people didn't get worked up at that is precisely why we're potentially in this situation now. Its not a slippery slope fallacy if they really are falling down the slippery slope.

But what can I say? I've been saying this for a while now in various places. With increasing loudness. I can explain why such things are bad; but I can't make other people who play games give a damn. This kind of apathy is exactly why preorder culture is a thing. Bit by bit they creep up on you until suddenly they're screwing with stuff you DO care about and you can't do a damn thing about it.

Eh this thread is depressing. I'm out.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Snip

And you just named the quest that utterly killed my interest in the game. Of course if I was doing it earlier than I was supposed to, the game did a horrible job of explaining that. It was getting rather grindy before that, just in terms of sheer random encounters that were getting on my nerves. Yes I'm well aware of that. The problem with the characters is that I got all the way to the Templar fight, something I assume is roughly halfway through the game, and they were...ok. Nothing really that bad with them but nothing that really grabbed my attention. After several dozen hours of gameplay I didn't feel like I was getting enough results to justify the investment. It's not for me? What's that supposed to mean? I like JRPGs. I am of the opinion that this was a crap JRPG. Yes people did praise it, but here's the thing. I don't care. I base my reactions to games and the events around them on what I think of them, not what other people think of them.

If the source for the reason behind the change is just speculation, then this entire thing is just speculation, especially since the source cited was a forum post citing another forum post. No one has made an official statement about the endings being taken out at all, hasn't stopped people from jumping on that.

I did care. Not a whole lot but I didn't like the base idea of the change. Then the way people treated me (including the way you're treating me right now) made me ask myself why I should care if this was the way I was going to be treated. Couldn't come up with an answer for that. Point out how what I say is unjust or immoral and I'll consider changing my tune. Until then I'm not really getting that worked up over a change in a game that the developer seems to be doing to make it better. Didn't you just say that's what you wanted? You should be happy.

That quest is doable all the way until the final boss, so...yeah...you were fighting ruby weapon the first time you saw it, lost a bunch, and quit. It's how Jrpgs are, you know, that super op boss you can find early but always lose to until later. You should know it by now without explanation if you have experience by simply how big of a power difference there was. Encounters can be managed and even completely turned off in the options so if it was too grindy you couoda adjusted. There's no reason to grind at all in this game, it is one of the strong points of the game!

The report of quest endings missing is a statement of fact from people with the game. We have to assume they're not lying, I guess, but it seems reliable enough. It isn't the same as people trying to reversely engineer how this outcome happened in a way that justifies it. The core difference is the speculators have no way of actually knowing what nintendo did nor any way of rationally showing their view to be true. Reversely, we have no reason to dispute the people who complain, as the logical assumption is to take people as good actors who care about games and would not besmirch the reputation of a game like this for the lulz.

Your position is immoral because it is too permissive for changes like these as long as there's any wiggle room to allow you to save face in this whole big argument wih sjws and gamergte and all that. Games are more important than our internet wars. You put the cart before the horse here.