Instead of just talking here, why dont we try to find a journalist or a scientist that may act in defense of videogames? Someone with authority enough for the court to ask him for his expert opinion?
Also, i got the feeling that he ACTUALLY wants the gamers to egoistically cheer for him. To the point where he may be counting on the self-interested assholes part of gaming culture to back him up because if he looses the case. He actually thinks that we are just as narcisistic as he is.
Dont believe me? let me put it in a very simple way.
If he is sane then his claims about videogames being hobbies and nothing else are based on reason and therefore, its "good" for us. Sure, that would mean that people would actually LISTEN to this ************ on his claims of "purifying" the world, but who gives a fuck about everyone else when Skyrim and Mass Effect 3 has been released?. Fuck the real world, it is not my problem, i am trying to save the princess here.
If he is found insane then the media will have more strength to decide that videogames are responsible for it and that would be "bad" for us. After all, we are trying to live our lives peacefully while we shout homophobic slurs on the net. It is our right to do whatever and to have our brown shitty realistic shooters to release our hate on muslim people.
See how fucked up HE thinks we are??
This is the moment of true, fellow gamers.
If videogames are trully evil......would you still try to defend it? Or better yet, this seems like a "perfect" opportunity to let Call of Duty take the bullet and be destroyed forever because we could enjoy more games that arent of the "brown shitty realistic shooters" kind of games, but that would mean that he would have a point on us being narrow minded misanthropes supreme.
Show me, fellow gamer, that you can actually prove this ************ wrong.
... The only thing I can think of to say is that maybe killers do have standards...
Of course, that didn't stop him from saying he used CoD for his evil. But then again, that's CoD; and CoD is an Easy Target. In fact, it would take ages to explain all the reasons it's an easy target. It begins to make you wonder if CoD was specifically made for the purpose of...
... Oh wait, drawing in gun nuts and giving them better reflexes is practically it's prime directive. No offense to the better among those who play it, but CoD is the biggest example of why America needs to forget the military even existed, and many of us are just getting sick of it.
... But not quite as sick as I am of Hollywood making almost exclusively military based franchises. Can't I have a movie more like Final Fantasy than Cod for once?
...At least I'm an Australian, so i don't have to put up with any of this directly. Only indirectly. But some day! I shall move to Japan and hopefully won't have to deal with it at all.
... The only thing I can think of to say is that maybe killers do have standards...
Of course, that didn't stop him from saying he used CoD for his evil. But then again, that's CoD; and CoD is an Easy Target. In fact, it would take ages to explain all the reasons it's an easy target. It begins to make you wonder if CoD was specifically made for the purpose of...
... Oh wait, drawing in gun nuts and giving them better reflexes is practically it's prime directive. No offense to the better among those who play it, but CoD is the biggest example of why America needs to forget the military even existed, and many of us are just getting sick of it.
... But not quite as sick as I am of Hollywood making almost exclusively military based franchises. Can't I have a movie more like Final Fantasy than Cod for once?
...At least I'm an Australian, so i don't have to put up with any of this directly. Only indirectly. But some day! I shall move to Japan and hopefully won't have to deal with it at all.
Depends. I don't know what you mean with the "AK47" part, because they are extremely rare and Breivik did not use one, he used a Mini-14.
It helps building some habits and it gives you the ability to mentally handle the action of shooting at humans.
I am very willing to bet that people exposed to first person shooters make more efficient shooters.
See, I told you that I didn't know the first thing about firing a gun (okay, maybe how to hold it). Frankly, I disagree, I'm not sure you can make that jump. I'll take something I *do* know: surgery. Nothing ever prepares you for that first time you step in the OR and start rummaging around in people's innards. Virtual reality can only go so far. Regarding guns, I'm guessing there's the recoil, the heating to handle. No game can mimic that. And although I'll go around shooting people in a FPS, I know it's fake, and would never be able to do so in real life. (Maybe in self-defense, and I'm not even sure I'd be capable of that, I'd probably be too scared)
What an ass. No, that's an understatement. There's no insult for him that wouldn't be an understatement.
The issue here isn't his use of games but his actions. If he chose to play MW to hone his shooting skills for a mass killing then he was a monster before he even purchased his copy of MW. Games didn't make him this way; something else did.
Plus what good has ever come from a dude writing a manifesto from his parents' basement?
Man if only someone could explain to this guy that he failed. Soon people will forget his name and the things he fought so hard against will continue. All he did at this point is get to yell out to a few countries about how insane and crazy he is, and then poof, gone, like the wind.
Not quite how his gaming habits were reported below.
As per usual alarmist and clueless reporting. Just so disappointed how many respected publications (i.e not the mail above) are reporting as fact that you can improve your skills with a real gun from playing COD. Rather than reporting what he said and calling him out for being an idiot as what he is a saying would not work. You don't need great aim when unfortunately your victims don't have much of a chance to escape or fire back. And when you have two hours to walk around an island picking them off. All you need as a requirement for that, is serious metal issues....
Well, shooting games won't turn you into sniper, but when in my country we went to the shooting range with class (as a part of self defence training) I was the only person who from the start knew how to load a gun and how to retract the bolt so that the first bullet goes into the chamber (I knew it from CS but I guess you could learn the same from movies). What Breivik said was also not that CoD made him a marksman but that holo visor can turn your mom into a marksman (and he was apparently right judging by the fact how many of the killing shots were actually headshots).
Also, I think that problem Breivik saw is very true, as almost any person that was in more dangerous areas of Berlin or France will tell you. Arabs are a huge problem, and multicultural society so far has been nothing less than a failure. When people refuse to integrate into society, they become hostile towards the government but also towards other groups. It's not a matter of economy, it's a matter of social integrity.
How killing 69 people would change that, however, I have no idea. Breivik was a mad man but the problem that set him off on a killing spring is very real in Europe.
guidance said:
Man if only someone could explain to this guy that he failed. Soon people will forget his name and the things he fought so hard against will continue. All he did at this point is get to yell out to a few countries about how insane and crazy he is, and then poof, gone, like the wind.
You know what is the sad fact? We cannot be sure he failed. At least by his own standards. He gained a lot of attention, he will in fact become a hero among radical "nazi" groups, it's already happening. And who the hell knows if he won't inspire more violence if media will not discredit him. That's what is happening in the court room, he does everything to make himself a martyr. For months he fought psychologists opinion that he is mad and cannot be held responsible. He isn't concerned with the sentence, he's concerned with his image. I believe he is far less insane than people think, it's just that his plans hinge on if he can paint himself a warrior of his cause. He didin't fail, at least not yet.
This is in Norway, but whatever, it's not like Sweden used to be the England to our Ireland or anything (spoiler: they totally were)
We already had this discussion in Norway. The overwhelming majority did not want to be murderers.
Man if only someone could explain to this guy that he failed. Soon people will forget his name and the things he fought so hard against will continue. All he did at this point is get to yell out to a few countries about how insane and crazy he is, and then poof, gone, like the wind.
I don't think his name will be forgotten anytime soon. His name will live on, if only because he is hated so much. Like it or not, you WILL remember names of people you hate.
I'm not sure his actions are a failure. It would appear so from where I'm sitting - there's no ethnic cleansing in Norway going on - but according to him he got exactly the result he aimed for.
Yes... because shooting 60-ish unarmed teenagers and blowing up a building is totaly self-defence... seriously who the fuck does he think will possibly fall for that?
Well, it was a youth camp for the youth wing of the Norwegian Labour Party, and he hated the Norwegian Labour Party for letting Muslim immigrants enter the country. Basically, he was/is a conspiracy theorist who thought the governments of Europe are controlled by "cultural Marxists" who are collaborating with Islamists to destroy European culture and create a superstate called "Eurabia". He considered it self-defense as he believed he was defending his country. Still crazy though.
I find the gaming media coverage of this pretty interesting. They just keep going "Games have nothing to do with this psycho! Stop jumping to conclusions!" And the real media has barely mentioned the gaming aspects.
I guess the gaming media is so used to that happening that they say that even as the mainstream media are now beginning to stop being so sensationalist about gaming.
I find it interesting to see this common mistake made: he is not psychotic. Just because he kills people, doesn't make him a psychopath. Soldiers kill hundreds of people, very few are psychopaths.
OT: fascinating to see people's reaction to this is typical of any society. I like to put this akin to what Catholics might have said about a protestant in their society and how similar the responses are. Simply dehumanizing is too often our response to these events, very rarely to we attempt to seriously asses the others point of view.
About him gaming, the less he says about it, the better. But gaming is not really the issue here. This excuse for a man just wants as much as attention possible for his political cause. The best thing that could happen is that we start thinking about the victims and forget about him.
Yes he is much worse than say... Hitler (Godwin's law, yay!)...
And so what if he is a gamer? Does that affect you in any way? Of course it doesn't. If he played Tennis, would you think all the tennis players in the world would rage?
He might be a huge dick, but your statement makes no sense at all.
Should... I be concerned that I'm starting to develop a begrudging respect and perhaps even a slight modicrum of admiration for this man? I mean, I've never been so convicted about anything ever in my life ever. Worse, I've never had such conviction AND the ability to apply it coolly and logically in casual conversation without resorting to troll-baiting and backhanded insults.
Why is this mass murderer starting to look like he's a superior human being to me in a number of disturbing ways?!
I find the gaming media coverage of this pretty interesting. They just keep going "Games have nothing to do with this psycho! Stop jumping to conclusions!" And the real media has barely mentioned the gaming aspects.
I'm glad I'm not the only one noticing this. Besides one article in the Daily Mail, this is the only other place that has even mentioned his gaming habits. I think in this case, although the media does like to place blame upon games, to do so might detract from the appalling crime that this man committed, so they're saving it for later. They still might go all out on his gaming habits a while after the court case.
In the UK our press is reporting this as "call of duty trained Breivik how to kill".
Personally my cutting people training is going well, i like to spend a minute or two cutting up my dinner before i eat it but visualize the carrots are peoples veins.
Not quite how his gaming habits were reported below.
"The revelation came as Breivik described how he became a deadly marksman by honing his gun skills by playing the violent Call Of Duty: Modern Warfare computer game."
From: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2132002/Anders-Behring-Breivik-trial-Norwegian-mass-killer-played-violent-video-game-Call-Duty-16-hours-day.html
"Norway killer sharpened aim on computer games" (AP)
As per usual alarmist and clueless reporting. Just so disappointed how many respected publications (i.e not the mail above) are reporting as fact that you can improve your skills with a real gun from playing COD. Rather than reporting what he said and calling him out for being an idiot as what he is a saying would not work. You don't need great aim when unfortunately your victims don't have much of a chance to escape or fire back. And when you have two hours to walk around an island picking them off. All you need as a requirement for that, is serious mental issues....
I can trust the courts (somewhat) but you can't trust the media not to not resort to sensationalist misrepresentation.
I'm still curious, if some expert in mental illness and criminal law in Norway can explain how this guy is not insane. He is clearly deranged to describe cold blooded murder of almost 80 unarmed people as self-defence, or is it just that he is "not insane enough". Is the only type of insanity they would have accepted was if he genuinely was so deranged he thought he was shooting at nothing but balloons and didn't know what he was doing. Is that it?
At the very least, Brevik's state of mind doesn't seem to represent nor reflect any wider political sentiment, it's quite clearly his own twisted mind that brought this about, not some wider events. This is as irrelevant to politics as a serial rapist saying he did it all to raise awareness for spina bifida. It's a complete non-sequiter.
as a requirement for that, is serious metal issues
The same way most people working at concentration camps could. A fucked up ideology, and that is what the media should focus on, facistic discriminating rethoric that is currently on the rise in Europe,(again).
Instead the media wants to have an easy solution, like mental illness or video games. And yes he is very narsissistic (believes he is a commander in a made up militia) and have probably used games, films and books as inspiration, but the media mustent fear to adress the issues that his ideology thrives on just because that is what this sad man wants.
The worst thing that can happend to these fundamentalist ideas is for them to be scrutinized and put into debate, then they are shown for what they truly are, bigotry, racism ,elitism and fear, if they are ignored we could get a new nazism. Breivik used violence against the people who can defeat his ideas with reason.
I met one of the survivours from utøya at a pub, this 23 year old thin pretty girl(why do you think I talked to her?) ,was shot 5 times because she not only tolerated, but loved everyone. I am not even exagurating, she greets absolutely everyone with a smile, but she is no hippie , she is ambitious, smart and her beliefs are based thourougly in the realities of life. She is not mentgally unscathed but there where no naivety that got destroyed that day, but a confirmation of her ideals importance that grew. If the other kids at that island where just half of what this girl is, this loss was much greater than the cold number of 77.The world needs people like this.
And another thing I noticed about her; this is how she always says goodbye to everyone:
"The same way most people working at concentration camps could."
What part of my post is this a reply to? I just don't quite see what part it it's it "the same way".
I think trying to expose and reason with fanatics is like whipping the ocean for causing a storm, futile. These extremists exist entirely within logical fallacies and delusions, anything you say to try to convince them they are wrong will only serve their conformational bias that there is a conspiracy to silence them. The very just step before you even ATTEMPT to debate with political extremists them is to de-radicalise them so that they will give up using logical fallacies and disruptive rhetoric and have a fair discussion.
Hitler's beliefs were exposed and debated and they dominated for their circular logic, fallacies and appeals to fear, anger and conformity. The big Nazi rallies were held in the open, preaching hatred and barbarity. I'm not convinced giving monsters a megaphone will destroy their credibility. They are trolls as the whole point of fallacies is even though they are wrong they are more effective in direct debate.
But I have to say this, to Breivik's his extreme right rhetoric and paranoia I don't think Brevik's actions are representative of any wider sentiments of European racists. I think white racists in Europe want to kill non-whites, foreigners and different cultural groups like Jews and gypsies. Not white teenagers.
For one, if someone is a far right racist, why would be go on a killing spree against an almost entirely racially white group? There are muslim and other foreigner enclaves in Norway but he did not attack them, he attacked the mainly white-racially government and an island retreat made up mostly of white Norwegian teenagers. This is why he is insane. This is an insane thing to do to start a war against muslims, this is like a Japanese guy just before WWII bombing the Imperial Palace then go on a shooting spree in a Japanese school... to start a war with America.
Breivik didn't even try to frame any muslim individual or organisation for this crime! There would have been an evil logic to doing that, but no, he took full responsibility yet defying all logic thinks his atrocity means Norway will start a new crusade against Islam. That's an insane thing to conclude and act upon.
Now, contrast Breivik with another racist Scandinavian murderer, the Laser Sight Killer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ausonius
John Ausonius was a killer, quite sane but very evil. He hated immigrants so took a rifle and started going around shooting them, with the intention of doing a small part of ridding his country of all non-whites. There is an evil though myopic logic to this that shooting and killing a group will lead to them leaving and it may encourage other racists to also follow him in copycat crimes. There is a logic to this, a pathetic an evil one. With Breivik there is no sane logic.
What Breivik did and his stated intention defies all logic and reason. How does a white Christian man killing white (mostly) Christian teenagers and politicians... cause Norway to rise up against Muslims? He is INSANE! He is utterly deranged. In one act he has murdered more people in Europe than ALL the terrorist attack by Islamic motivated groups combined in Europe. He can't possibly hope to have any copycats as likely no one is as insane as him.
Yes, Breivik is an extreme-right racists, but only insanity could connect his political beliefs to his crimes. And I remind you that the Norwegian prosecution are the one's arguing that he is insane, it is Breivik who claims he is sane and motivated by politics. Trying to analyse Brevik's political motivations make no sense. Breivik himself is trying to explain them and they make no sense. When you get this insane it's quite futile trying to analyse political motivation, it's impossible to tell what he will conclude from any input.
Insane people are like rabid animals, I don't stay up at night worrying what their conclusions means about wider society and trends, their insanity makes their logic irrelevant to sane minds. The good thing is there are not many people who are this insane, you don't have to worry about it spreading like fascism or racial hatred.
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