Now THAT'S a Dragon Fight!!!

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I'm playing Dragon's Dogma now (free on PS+ this month) and it has set the bar for how you should do fights against huge creatures; well, at least in an RPG since there's Shadow of the Colossus of course.

So, I'm just doing an escort mission trying to bring a NPC "safely" to their destination. I'm going through the forest killing goblins, no bid deal, and then I come across a fucking dragon. Firstly, this thing has 9 fucking health bars. Its attacks are pretty damn devastating; its breath of fire attack is ridiculous (from both air and ground), the wind from its wings will stagger you, it moves on the ground both quickly and powerfully, it'll grab one of your pawns and try brainwashing them, the tail will whip you, it'll knock you off if you try climbing it when it's on the ground, and it'll talk to you saying how awesome it is compared to you.

I tried fighting it twice and the best I did was almost take out one health bar. You got to hit in the heart and my mage sent up an ice spike that went through its heart to take out like half the health bar, I then grabbed onto it slash at its heart, it flew up, and then I ran out of stamina, fell to the ground, and died. I ended up going around it but my NPC died as I ran into a rock golem (or something) and he didn't stay back enough, the thing was beserking but only had a sliver of health left.

So the Skyrim's, Dragon Age's, Dark Souls' of the gaming world need to majorly step up their game, you guys aren't even in the same league.

 

[hazabaza1]

Yeah running into random dragons was real fun in that game. Even the smaller stuff was a good challenge on lower levels, it made for a fun time.

That being said, I can't rightfully give DD any awards for Dragon fighting when this glorious boss exists...

Just feels so good. One person, one giant fucking dragon,, and a big place to fight in. It's a lot less flashy than DD but it feels a whole lot better when you finally win.

 

[Corven]

So, Dragon's Dogma is a good game to get then? It looked really interesting.

@hazabaza1, Is that from the DLC? I don't remember fighting that boss.

yes it's a new boss in the dlc.

 

[nogitsune]

I agree, though technically what you fought was a drake and the weakest one. I do think DD has a great combat system and I love the fact you can climb up on the big monsters and not have it be QTE BS. I really think a few things that DD does that makes me like it more than DS is to have difficulty levels, and *gasp* They didn't ruin the game and also I could make the character that I want to; I loved having a petite little wood elf ranger and no forcing me to play a zombie or contend with forced PVP.

The best battle I had was with a White Hydra, not the pushover that the black hydra, that battle took a long time and a lot of healing items but I was able to pull victory from the many jaws of defeat. Easily one of the best battles I have had in gaming. Too bad the final boss was kind of a joke.

 

[sanquin]

DD has a great combat system. It's too bad that the rest of the game is so generic and muddy (colour-wise) though. Otherwise it would have been my favourite game of the year.

 

[PrimitiveJudge]

I love the game, even your henchmen don't even annoy me. I hated that hydra fight, it is the only boss in everfall I was unable to defeat. I am glad that fast travel was reduced a ton compared to other games, fast travel for me took away a bunch of the gaming experience and night travels.

Spoiler

But yeah that was only a drake you were fighting, wait till you fight that main guy or the Everfall dragon

 

[gamernerdtg2]

Dude you're late to the party, but welcome nonetheless. Let me be the first to say "I told you so." =)

I was like you - played Amalur first and dug it, but Dogma is on another level. Even the critics are giving it decent scores.

The thing with Dogma is that you make stories while playing. You're following quests and whatnot, but when you get ambushed by a Chimera or some creature that's out of your league, it's friggin awesome.

You're actually playing "Dark Arisen", which is good for you because you've never played the original. I have yet to play Dark Arisen, but I'm perfectly content with the original game. Capcom knows how to scratch the itch.

 

[gamernerdtg2]

DD has a great combat system. It's too bad that the rest of the game is so generic and muddy (colour-wise) though. Otherwise it would have been my favourite game of the year.

I *think* Dark Arisen corrects the muddiness and some of the rpg features. Not sure what you mean about generic, but it's a great game for sure.

 

[Diablo2000]

Phoenix stop comparing games to Dark Souls - it's getting REALLY annoying. We get it, you don't like it. Now just move on, it'll be healthier for you. Dragon's Dogma and Dark Souls are two very different beasts. And actually, Dark Souls is still better IMO (Dark SOuls is in my top 3 for this gen, Dogma in my top 10).


The thing about that particular type of dragon is that its repetitive. It appears as major bosses a few times, including the superboss Ur-Dragon. It starts losing it's originality after a few goes. Dark Souls on the other hand has a few Dragons and each fights very differently one from the other - so I'd give the points in this category to Dark Souls.

I won't mention Skyrim because those are the lamest dragon's in all video gaming.

As for Dragon's Dogma, yes it's good. I'm happy that PS+ has offered the expansion as I refused to pay $40 for a game I for which I already have the platinum trophy. I downloaded it, but have been busy with Disgaea D2, Yakuza: Dead Souls and Uncharted 3 (PS+). Will try the expansion at some point though.

That being said, I can't rightfully give DD any awards for Dragon fighting when this glorious boss exists...

Yeah, Kalameet was an insane fight - the hardest DLC boss period.

But Phoenix wouldn't know that since he cheezed his way through the vanilla game once. You definitely can't block / spam weak attack versus Kalameet (or even most bosses as Phoenix likes to claim).

I personally thought that Kalameet was easy, but then again I had a 15+ Uchikatana + 40 Dex and a high Vitality and Endurance high, the aid of the Ring of Favor and Protection, Grass Crest Shield and Cloranty Ring (Dat stamina regenaration), so I was a probably a bit overpowered. (Just a tiny little bit)
I had far more trouble with the Sanctuary Guardian(Didn't even try the double Sanctuary Guardian, fuck that) and Artorias (To be fair I didn't know you could stop his buff, I was just like "Don't like this move, ain't getting close to this").

And I can say that Dark Souls is my favorite game of all time, haven't been this addicted to a game since Metal Gear Solic on the PS1.


Haven't play Dragon's Dogma, but a few days ago I ordered the "Dark Arisen", so while I wait to it get here I play MORE Dark Souls. (Thinking a Zweihander build + Pyro, that will be FUN)

 

[Eve Charm]

Eh I don't see how swiping a dragons legs in Dark souls till it dies can be better then climbing up a dragons back and hacking his wings to knock him on the ground while archers and mages help to.

 

[Maxtro]

Loved Dragons Dogma/Dark Arisen. Really hoping there will be a sequel.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Not quite a Dragon Fight, but I so want to see a Dragon battle done like the flying bosses in Shadow of the Colossus.

 

[The_Lost_King]

Capcom are the absolute best at big monster battles. Dragons Dogma is really good at its boss battles. It is always hard, but not impossible and you feel accomplished when you kill it. Dragons Dogma and Monster Hunter are just really amazing games tat just do boss battles perfectly(though you would hope monster hunter would have good boss battles, seeing as that is all it is).

edit: I really don't think you can say,"look at this dragon age" when DD and DAO have two COMPLETELY different combat styles. I will also have to cast my lot in with the DD > DS, not a huge fan of DS myself.

 

[Kilo24]

Eh. I'd consider Dark Souls's boss fights as better overall, though not as flashy (though that comes with the game's less action-heavy tone). There is no climbing on the enemies, but even so...

Dragon's Dogma tends to recycle enemies, give them very big health bars and use higher stats as a way to create challenge and to reward players. Its environments and enemies are not as carefully constructed like the Souls' games are. Still, it does do a pretty good job, and - were it not for the Souls series - I'd consider it the best action RPG out there. It certainly is more expansive than either of the Souls' games, too.

I will say that until Kalameet came out in the DLC the dragons in Dragon's Dogma were definitely better than the dragons in Demon's Souls and Dark Souls. They really dropped the ball on those designs.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Yeah running into random dragons was real fun in that game. Even the smaller stuff was a good challenge on lower levels, it made for a fun time.

That being said, I can't rightfully give DD any awards for Dragon fighting when this glorious boss exists...

Just feels so good. One person, one giant fucking dragon,, and a big place to fight in. It's a lot less flashy than DD but it feels a whole lot better when you finally win.

That dragon fight has the same exact problem as pretty much every RPG. You don't fight dragons by slashing at their legs, unless part of the fight is actually cutting their Achilles' tendon, then going to town on their face or heart since they can't stand up anymore. It has nothing to with flash, is Shadow of the Colossus flashy? It has everything to do with a proper dragon fight.

So, Dragon's Dogma is a good game to get then? It looked really interesting.

The game is pretty awesome from a combat perspective. If you need story and characters, go somewhere else.

DD has a great combat system. It's too bad that the rest of the game is so generic and muddy (colour-wise) though. Otherwise it would have been my favourite game of the year.

How is DD any more generic than any other fantasy RPG?

Phoenix stop comparing games to Dark Souls - it's getting REALLY annoying. We get it, you don't like it. Now just move on, it'll be healthier for you. Dragon's Dogma and Dark Souls are two very different beasts. And actually, Dark Souls is still better IMO (Dark SOuls is in my top 3 for this gen, Dogma in my top 10).


The thing about that particular type of dragon is that its repetitive. It appears as major bosses a few times, including the superboss Ur-Dragon. It starts losing it's originality after a few goes. Dark Souls on the other hand has a few Dragons and each fights very differently one from the other - so I'd give the points in this category to Dark Souls.

I won't mention Skyrim because those are the lamest dragon's in all video gaming.

As for Dragon's Dogma, yes it's good. I'm happy that PS+ has offered the expansion as I refused to pay $40 for a game I for which I already have the platinum trophy. I downloaded it, but have been busy with Disgaea D2, Yakuza: Dead Souls and Uncharted 3 (PS+). Will try the expansion at some point though.

That being said, I can't rightfully give DD any awards for Dragon fighting when this glorious boss exists...

Yeah, Kalameet was an insane fight - the hardest DLC boss period.

But Phoenix wouldn't know that since he cheezed his way through the vanilla game once. You definitely can't block / spam weak attack versus Kalameet (or even most bosses as Phoenix likes to claim).

Firstly, I LIKE Dark Souls (6/10 worthy). It's funny how Dark Souls 2 is fixing every single one of the flat-out broken RPG mechanics I listed in Dark Souls in other threads and posts (like fire magic not requiring a stat). It's kinda hard to really like an RPG when it has so many fundamentally broken RPG mechanics. Dragon's Dogma was not built on a broken foundation and it has much better fights thus it's the better game and RPG.

I just said that any game that has epic fights with dragons and such needs to up their game. Dark Souls' bosses were so disappointing and all the dragon fights were pretty much a joke. I'm sorry but the days of having a big creature that you just have to whittle away his huge HP pool are over. Dark Souls falls into that category. I watched the video of that Dark Souls' DLC dragon fight and it was highly repetitive, the dragon did the same few attacks over and over and the guy was just slashing at its legs, not very fun or epic feeling at all. I'd rather have do an epic, well done dragon fight a few times than do slightly different dragon fights where I'm just slashing at them.

God, I hate the term "vanilla" when used with gaming. So I have to play Dark Souls with mods or its DLC to get a good experience? That's bullshit, the base game should be good (whether it's Dark Souls, Skyrim, Dragon's Dogma, or whatever). Guess what simple thing I can do in Dragon's Dogma that I can't do in Dark Souls? I can backpedal and strafe with a shield up without being locked-on. Dark Souls combat system is way too reliant with a lock-on system, which is a mechanic that is really a thing of the past.

Dude you're late to the party, but welcome nonetheless. Let me be the first to say "I told you so." =)

I was like you - played Amalur first and dug it, but Dogma is on another level. Even the critics are giving it decent scores.

The thing with Dogma is that you make stories while playing. You're following quests and whatnot, but when you get ambushed by a Chimera or some creature that's out of your league, it's friggin awesome.

You're actually playing "Dark Arisen", which is good for you because you've never played the original. I have yet to play Dark Arisen, but I'm perfectly content with the original game. Capcom knows how to scratch the itch.

I'd say Amalur is a bit better when fighting human-sized enemies, but fighting those big creatures in Dragon's Dogma is just awesome. The Chimera isn't even that big but it fights and moves the way you'd think it would. And how take out the snake, goat, and lion all separately is awesome.

Dark Arisen is just Dragon's Dogma but with the extra dungeon and a few slight tweaks with fast travel and I believe you can shut up the pawns, but that's really it.

Haven't play Dragon's Dogma, but a few days ago I ordered the "Dark Arisen", so while I wait to it get here I play MORE Dark Souls. (Thinking a Zweihander build + Pyro, that will be FUN)

You won't be going back to Dark Souls, Dragon's Dogma is that good.

 

[hazabaza1]

Yeah running into random dragons was real fun in that game. Even the smaller stuff was a good challenge on lower levels, it made for a fun time.

That being said, I can't rightfully give DD any awards for Dragon fighting when this glorious boss exists...

Just feels so good. One person, one giant fucking dragon,, and a big place to fight in. It's a lot less flashy than DD but it feels a whole lot better when you finally win.

That dragon fight has the same exact problem as pretty much every RPG. You don't fight dragons by slashing at their legs, unless part of the fight is actually cutting their Achilles' tendon, then going to town on their face or heart since they can't stand up anymore. It has nothing to with flash, is Shadow of the Colossus flashy? It has everything to do with a proper dragon fight.

I don't think there's really any "right way" to fight a Dragon. If there was, I may as well criticise Dragon's Dogma for not having the dragon fly up and just loop back and forth breathing fire on you. Or running away when it starts dying rather than sit there and get killed since it's supposed to be intelligent.

And if you don't like the standard melee approach, there's always archery or magic to keep your distance and deal damage in a safer way. But again, I'd say there's no "right way" to fight because if I were to take the mindset of a dragon and some pesky adventurers were grappling me, I would fly as far up as I can and then shake them off to their death. At least Dark Souls has the excuse that Kalameet's wing was really fucked up causing him to crash so he can't fly away rather than won't.

Honestly unless you want "super scripted fight mcgee" or "let's have a giant flashing weakpoint that the enemy constantly reveals like it's fucking House of the Dead" the standard health bar chipping down is the best we're going to get whilst still keeping the fight difficult and unique.

But as for flash... yeah, Shadow of the Colossus is flashy. Very. Big booming soundtrack, giant spurts of blood, one small person against a giant monster they can't hope to defeat. That whole game is flashy. And that's not a bad thing, hell it probably helps, but I just prefer Kalameet to anything Dragon's Dogma can offer.

Oh, and I don't think you're going to convince anyone that people won't or don't go back to Dark Souls. This is a two year old game that many people (including myself) have spent many hundred hours on and constantly has new videos, theories, stories, gameplay builds all being made about it. Dragon's Dogma has... a lot less. I don't even dislike the game, this is just a massive and obvious difference between the two.

 

[Frostbyte666]

Agreed on the monster fights in dragons dogma and damn you felt epic taking out most of the creatures, I still felt good about myself when the griffin I was killing decided to go for a flight while I was hanging on for dear life and my pawns were still taking pot shots at the thing (I don't think they liked me much). Plus before you have the light spells wandering around the woods at night and then suddenly a case of chimera pouncing out of the trees without a hint it was there causing great panic.

I did watch that DS tube and sorry but the dragon fight was extremely boring and repetitive, I got fed up watching the thing half way through and if the boss fights are all like that in DS then I'm glad I didn't bother with it. I would have given up from boredom, frustration, how much longer must I repeat this same pattern before the monster keels over from having it's legs hacked at, and finally the really, that move again... Sorry but the combat just looked so preplanned and scripted. I could almost hear a clunk as the cog spun and the dragon started it's next move set and knew what it was about to do, the challenge seemed more to be keeping the camera on the dragon to see it's next move, this made the combat far less fluid and more grating I found.

 

[Frostbyte666]

I don't think there's really any "right way" to fight a Dragon. If there was, I may as well criticise Dragon's Dogma for not having the dragon fly up and just loop back and forth breathing fire on you. Or running away when it starts dying rather than sit there and get killed since it's supposed to be intelligent.

The thing with the dragons in dogma

Spoiler

is that they were all part of an elaborate test for you to become the next god, they can't really do that by just doing fly-bys and running off when low on health

even if it is the wiser course of action to survive.