I love this. I'm doing it.Johnny Novgorod said:I suppose I'll start all of my emails with "fuck you NSA" then.
I love this. I'm doing it.Johnny Novgorod said:I suppose I'll start all of my emails with "fuck you NSA" then.
I've seen people more than accepting it, I've seen people welcoming it. They use the logical fallacy that since they aren't doing anything wrong, they have nothing to worry about. People just don't realise how important your privacy is, and how many things you say/do can be misconstrued or outright misinterpreted as hostile or dangerous.Devil said:If you knew anything about the legal powers of the United States, you'd run too. They just have to claim you're a terrorist and you can be indefinitely locked up in Gitmo bay for the rest of your life with no trial or anything. If he hadn't run, they would have made him disappear so fast the news agencies would have never known who did the leak. By running, he puts international pressure on the US so if they try and force him to be returned to the US they have to internationally announce they're going to put him on trial and that it's worth all the effort, which then brings up the whole story again of why they want him so badly.BoredRolePlayer said:Honestly I'm not mad at what Snowden did, I'm mad he ran from the country like a coward. If he truly believed he was doing it for the good of our country like he claims he shouldn't have ran to China. I honestly can't respect a guy who sits there acting like he is trying to be a hero yet runs like a coward, if your going to stand up for what you feel is right you gotta face any bad thing that comes your way.
Basically, if he stayed, nothing would have accomplished. I'm sorry your ideal world is so perfect, but things just don't work that way. He left to gain asylum because of his "crimes," even though they're moral and legal, would have made him disappear.
Hell, I love the US and I wanted to serve in the USAF still after doing their ROTC programs to become an officer in the Air Force, but we have to know that it's not perfect. Gitmo is a stain on our record and so is the Patriot Act and now the NSA. This is one of the main reasons I left the military. The more drama Snowden can create the bigger the attention the world will give. Because right now everyone is forgetting about the incident in less than a week and things are going back to normal. What kind of fucked up world is this? People are accepting what happened now. Snowden is making sure there is still news about the story and ensures that there is hope.
Perfect example, in my city they decided to put in trafic light cams years ago to gain more revenue through ticket generation. They were told to take them down by the citizens of my state (it caused as many accidents as it prevented), and instead of doing that they "deactivated" them (which is BS because they never stopped flashing, they just stopped sending tickets), when the next governor hits office, the cams were fully operational again. Here in the past year, the number of red light tickets were on the decline (I guess people finally got tired of having to pay $300 because of a bad photo, so they started braking sooner causing more accidents), instead of saying "great our citizens are safer now" they instead decided to shorten the length of our yellow lights by 2 seconds. So now we have almost doubled the red light cam tickets, and our accident rate is skyrocketing as people have to slam on the brakes to avoid a $300 ticket.GnomeChompsky said:I have plenty to hide because I do plenty that's "wrong".Souplex said:I don't get why everyone wants to hide what they're doing.
if you don't do anything wrong, you shouldn't have to worry about this.
The issue is with who's defining the word "wrong". Are you? I'm not. I don't much agree with those who are, either.
They set the stage now to be able do do whatever they want, and you say it's fine because you're not doing anything wrong. Then, once the system's in place, they begin moving the bar higher and higher. Soon enough, it becomes nearly impossible to not be doing something wrong.
When they can't find enough criminals to justify their own unlawful actions, they have to start manufacturing them.
Strawman arguments won't get you very far.Devil said:Hey, if you truly believe that, make your home out of glass. It'll still keep you warm during the cold and protect you from the weather, but I want to see what you're doing in bed, in the bathroom and in the kitchen 24/7. I want to see EVERYTHING.Souplex said:I don't get why everyone wants to hide what they're doing.
if you don't do anything wrong, you shouldn't have to worry about this.
You have nothing to hide, so you have nothing to fear.
Learn to not go for it on yellow and you won't have a problem.barbzilla said:Perfect example, in my city they decided to put in trafic light cams years ago to gain more revenue through ticket generation. They were told to take them down by the citizens of my state (it caused as many accidents as it prevented), and instead of doing that they "deactivated" them (which is BS because they never stopped flashing, they just stopped sending tickets), when the next governor hits office, the cams were fully operational again. Here in the past year, the number of red light tickets were on the decline (I guess people finally got tired of having to pay $300 because of a bad photo, so they started braking sooner causing more accidents), instead of saying "great our citizens are safer now" they instead decided to shorten the length of our yellow lights by 2 seconds. So now we have almost doubled the red light cam tickets, and our accident rate is skyrocketing as people have to slam on the brakes to avoid a $300 ticket.GnomeChompsky said:I have plenty to hide because I do plenty that's "wrong".Souplex said:I don't get why everyone wants to hide what they're doing.
if you don't do anything wrong, you shouldn't have to worry about this.
The issue is with who's defining the word "wrong". Are you? I'm not. I don't much agree with those who are, either.
They set the stage now to be able do do whatever they want, and you say it's fine because you're not doing anything wrong. Then, once the system's in place, they begin moving the bar higher and higher. Soon enough, it becomes nearly impossible to not be doing something wrong.
When they can't find enough criminals to justify their own unlawful actions, they have to start manufacturing them.
The government isn't there to help the average citizen any more, and anyone who thinks otherwise is blind to the truth.
Greg White said:Learn to not go for it on yellow and you won't have a problem.barbzilla said:Perfect example, in my city they decided to put in trafic light cams years ago to gain more revenue through ticket generation. They were told to take them down by the citizens of my state (it caused as many accidents as it prevented), and instead of doing that they "deactivated" them (which is BS because they never stopped flashing, they just stopped sending tickets), when the next governor hits office, the cams were fully operational again. Here in the past year, the number of red light tickets were on the decline (I guess people finally got tired of having to pay $300 because of a bad photo, so they started braking sooner causing more accidents), instead of saying "great our citizens are safer now" they instead decided to shorten the length of our yellow lights by 2 seconds. So now we have almost doubled the red light cam tickets, and our accident rate is skyrocketing as people have to slam on the brakes to avoid a $300 ticket.GnomeChompsky said:I have plenty to hide because I do plenty that's "wrong".Souplex said:I don't get why everyone wants to hide what they're doing.
if you don't do anything wrong, you shouldn't have to worry about this.
The issue is with who's defining the word "wrong". Are you? I'm not. I don't much agree with those who are, either.
They set the stage now to be able do do whatever they want, and you say it's fine because you're not doing anything wrong. Then, once the system's in place, they begin moving the bar higher and higher. Soon enough, it becomes nearly impossible to not be doing something wrong.
When they can't find enough criminals to justify their own unlawful actions, they have to start manufacturing them.
The government isn't there to help the average citizen any more, and anyone who thinks otherwise is blind to the truth.
Europe is much worse, btw. They have speed cameras installed everywhere over here.
I'm not surprised he ran to be honest, if he stayed he'd be charged and locked up in no time at all... At least this way he has a few weeks/months where he can fight against being extradited to drag it out.BoredRolePlayer said:Honestly I'm not mad at what Snowden did, I'm mad he ran from the country like a coward. If he truly believed he was doing it for the good of our country like he claims he shouldn't have ran to China. I honestly can't respect a guy who sits there acting like he is trying to be a hero yet runs like a coward, if your going to stand up for what you feel is right you gotta face any bad thing that comes your way.
I wonder how many protesters had any power in their message when they protest and go "OH SHIT THE COPS RUN".Pebblig said:I'm not surprised he ran to be honest, if he stayed he'd be charged and locked up in no time at all... At least this way he has a few weeks/months where he can fight against being extradited to drag it out.BoredRolePlayer said:Honestly I'm not mad at what Snowden did, I'm mad he ran from the country like a coward. If he truly believed he was doing it for the good of our country like he claims he shouldn't have ran to China. I honestly can't respect a guy who sits there acting like he is trying to be a hero yet runs like a coward, if your going to stand up for what you feel is right you gotta face any bad thing that comes your way.
From what I've read in the news of other cases it's a pretty common tactic to hide in another country, Plus there's the fact that basically any Internet related crime anywhere in the world seems to mean the US will try and extradite you and charge you for $$$millions or lock you up for 30 years. There was one website (TV shack I think) that ended in dotcom, so they claimed that was enough to extradite him to the US.
also, quite a few countries don't extradite without a solid case being presented or unless the perpetrator has committed a crime in the country he/she fled to. A lot of countries also won't extradite if they know the person is going to be executed (exceptions being escaped prisoners or those who have been convicted in lieu)Devil said:snip
No, this guy needed to run. To let himself be locked up would be a grave injustice and he clearly isn't one for injustice. You can't just give in to the demands of a government because they say you did a bad thing, running is fighting, he's not just letting them try to sweep this under the rug as everyone here knows they want to. There's honour and courage in letting what should be an innocent man be arrested under the guise of national security? No, there's honour and courage in leaking this disgusting act of treachery and then not letting them take you without a fight.BoredRolePlayer said:Hey and those prisoners in Gitmo were making splashes in the news when they went on a hunger strike didn't they? The guy who leaked those documents is in the news for his trail. The more people say this man is a terrorist and know why he was in jail he wouldn't be forgotten. And so fast no one would know who did the leaks, guess the Washington Post and Guardian wouldn't continue this all important story they knew who leaked it. He could have filmed the whole thing and leaked it all over the web so it will always be floating around. No one is going to forget this. No sir I don't think he should have ran, to me he is a coward he leaked important information, I am not here to fight about this with you. I made my peace on it, I will admit he did good but he is not brave. If he truly have honor in what he did, he would've stand your ground.
"If he was brave" Get the fuck out with that bullshit. Because your in front of a key board you can call a man a ***** for running away from his own country? Would you brave face the prospects of never seeing your family again and being locked away in the "New" gulags of gitmo? Its was a sane choice and you should thank him more and criticize less. It takes balls to have a moral compass.BoredRolePlayer said:Hey and those prisoners in Gitmo were making splashes in the news when they went on a hunger strike didn't they? The guy who leaked those documents is in the news for his trail. The more people say this man is a terrorist and know why he was in jail he wouldn't be forgotten. And so fast no one would know who did the leaks, guess the Washington Post and Guardian wouldn't continue this all important story they knew who leaked it. He could have filmed the whole thing and leaked it all over the web so it will always be floating around. No one is going to forget this. No sir I don't think he should have ran, to me he is a coward he leaked important information, I am not here to fight about this with you. I made my peace on it, I will admit he did good but he is not brave. If he truly have honor in what he did, he would've stand your ground.Devil said:If you knew anything about the legal powers of the United States, you'd run too. They just have to claim you're a terrorist and you can be indefinitely locked up in Gitmo bay for the rest of your life with no trial or anything. If he hadn't run, they would have made him disappear so fast the news agencies would have never known who did the leak. By running, he puts international pressure on the US so if they try and force him to be returned to the US they have to internationally announce they're going to put him on trial and that it's worth all the effort, which then brings up the whole story again of why they want him so badly.BoredRolePlayer said:Honestly I'm not mad at what Snowden did, I'm mad he ran from the country like a coward. If he truly believed he was doing it for the good of our country like he claims he shouldn't have ran to China. I honestly can't respect a guy who sits there acting like he is trying to be a hero yet runs like a coward, if your going to stand up for what you feel is right you gotta face any bad thing that comes your way.
Basically, if he stayed, nothing would have accomplished. I'm sorry your ideal world is so perfect, but things just don't work that way. He left to gain asylum because of his crimes, even though they're moral and legal, would have made him disappear.
Hell, I love the US and I want to serve in the USAF still after doing their ROTC programs to become an officer in the Air Force, but we have to know that it's not perfect. Gitmo is a stain on our record and so is the Patriot Act and now the NSA. The more drama Snowden can create the bigger the attention the world will give. Because right now everyone is forgetting about the incident in less than a week and things are going back to normal. What kind of fucked up world is this? People are accepting what happened now. Snowden is making sure there is still news about the story and ensures that there is hope.
I work for an ISP and its actually pretty easy to find someone's address with just an IP. Whether or not the ISP would provide those details to the NSA is questionable.Owyn_Merrilin said:Well, that's scary. The good news is they'd need more than an IP address to get a good location lock if the kind of websites I've seen that try to figure out where you are based on your IP address are anything to go by. I'm constantly being ID'd as being in another town (and not always the same one) several miles away from where I actually am. Granted, even "he's at a house somewhere in this radius of several miles" is a creepy amount of information to get from something like this.
He believed that divulging that information was the right thing. But he knows that his superiors and the people who think that without constant surveillance terrorist/communist/nazis/zombies would take over the world would most certainly want him silenced in any way possible.BoredRolePlayer said:Honestly I'm not mad at what Snowden did, I'm mad he ran from the country like a coward. If he truly believed he was doing it for the good of our country like he claims he shouldn't have ran to China. I honestly can't respect a guy who sits there acting like he is trying to be a hero yet runs like a coward, if your going to stand up for what you feel is right you gotta face any bad thing that comes your way.
I wanna point out the irony of the whole "keyboard" thing you just said, as you typed it from behind a keyboard; also don't put words in my mouth I called anyone a ***** ok. I wonder when protesters in the 60's protested for their rights and police sicked dogs on them and fired water houses on them and did worse for standing up for what they believed in. Because they didn't run for the hills, they took the lumps and fought for what they believed in. It takes just as much balls taking the risk with your action.My name is Fiction said:"If he was brave" Get the fuck out with that bullshit. Because your in front of a key board you can call a man a ***** for running away from his own country? Would you brave face the prospects of never seeing your family again and being locked away in the "New" gulags of gitmo? Its was a sane choice and you should thank him more and criticize less. It takes balls to have a moral compass.BoredRolePlayer said:Hey and those prisoners in Gitmo were making splashes in the news when they went on a hunger strike didn't they? The guy who leaked those documents is in the news for his trail. The more people say this man is a terrorist and know why he was in jail he wouldn't be forgotten. And so fast no one would know who did the leaks, guess the Washington Post and Guardian wouldn't continue this all important story they knew who leaked it. He could have filmed the whole thing and leaked it all over the web so it will always be floating around. No one is going to forget this. No sir I don't think he should have ran, to me he is a coward he leaked important information, I am not here to fight about this with you. I made my peace on it, I will admit he did good but he is not brave. If he truly have honor in what he did, he would've stand your ground.Devil said:If you knew anything about the legal powers of the United States, you'd run too. They just have to claim you're a terrorist and you can be indefinitely locked up in Gitmo bay for the rest of your life with no trial or anything. If he hadn't run, they would have made him disappear so fast the news agencies would have never known who did the leak. By running, he puts international pressure on the US so if they try and force him to be returned to the US they have to internationally announce they're going to put him on trial and that it's worth all the effort, which then brings up the whole story again of why they want him so badly.BoredRolePlayer said:Honestly I'm not mad at what Snowden did, I'm mad he ran from the country like a coward. If he truly believed he was doing it for the good of our country like he claims he shouldn't have ran to China. I honestly can't respect a guy who sits there acting like he is trying to be a hero yet runs like a coward, if your going to stand up for what you feel is right you gotta face any bad thing that comes your way.
Basically, if he stayed, nothing would have accomplished. I'm sorry your ideal world is so perfect, but things just don't work that way. He left to gain asylum because of his crimes, even though they're moral and legal, would have made him disappear.
Hell, I love the US and I want to serve in the USAF still after doing their ROTC programs to become an officer in the Air Force, but we have to know that it's not perfect. Gitmo is a stain on our record and so is the Patriot Act and now the NSA. The more drama Snowden can create the bigger the attention the world will give. Because right now everyone is forgetting about the incident in less than a week and things are going back to normal. What kind of fucked up world is this? People are accepting what happened now. Snowden is making sure there is still news about the story and ensures that there is hope.
I'm not against his leaks, I'm tired of hearing how he believes it's our choice, yet runs to another country. And no less to the Chinese (well Hong Kong for now), because see now people can twist the story that he could possibly give even more secrets to the Chinese government with all of his access and pretty much make him into a villain given the recent Chinese cyber attacks.(which they are trying to do now). So no any good he could have done can be now twisted as "he is a traitor" and him running like that only proves their point more to the public eye. That's why I called him a coward, because now it wouldn't be hard for the government to say "Now we must strengthen our secrets, we must snoop even more, and we can trust anyone with secrets because they might run to the enemy"(although Hong Kong/China isn't our enemy).Honestly I'm not mad at what Snowden did
So why not do it publicly himself, he already went through the press to leak all of this. I mean I still remember the fed getting in trouble for trying to figure out who leaked information last year. If he was scared of the leaks I'm sure he could have tried to leak it to where he wouldn't be fingered, and his story gets out. I stand by my statement.Undomesticated Equine said:He believed that divulging that information was the right thing. But he knows that his superiors and the people who think that without constant surveillance terrorist/communist/nazis/zombies would take over the world would most certainly want him silenced in any way possible.BoredRolePlayer said:Honestly I'm not mad at what Snowden did, I'm mad he ran from the country like a coward. If he truly believed he was doing it for the good of our country like he claims he shouldn't have ran to China. I honestly can't respect a guy who sits there acting like he is trying to be a hero yet runs like a coward, if your going to stand up for what you feel is right you gotta face any bad thing that comes your way.
People aren't scared their vote won't count, because here on a national level we don't count the votes and most wins. We vote for a delegate to hopefully pick who we wanted. It's the issue Ron Paul had, where he couldn't get his delegates at the RNC last year. It caused a huge upset. There is no we vote for obama we get obama, it's we vote for a guy who is most likely to say he is cool with obama.Korolev said:Sadly, I don't think this PRISM system is going to go away. Both of the main US parties support it wholeheartedly, so it's not a campaign issue. You could try voting for a third party candidate.... but good luck with that when you guys have a first-past-the-post system of voting and people are "afraid" of their vote "not counting" if they vote for a third-party. In Australia, we (largely) solved that problem by allowing preference voting - you can vote for a third-party candidate, completely safe in the knowledge that your vote will still count if that candidate doesn't win (it gets moved to your second preference).
So, because both your parties support it and you don't have any viable third-parties (and with your first-past-the-post system, you never will) you are stuck with it, unless you make such a huge, enormous fuss that it threatens to paralyze the functioning of the government. I'm not suggesting anything violent - I'm suggesting that 60% of Americans simply go on strike until this issue is resolved. THAT will make the government panic.
BoredRolePlayer said:I actualy
I actualy type using a grand piano from an anime I saw.BoredRolePlayer said:I wanna point out the irony of the whole "keyboard" thing you just said, as you typed it from behind a keyboard; also don't put words in my mouth I called anyone a ***** ok. I wonder when protesters in the 60's protested for their rights and police sicked dogs on them and fired water houses on them and did worse for standing up for what they believed in. Because they didn't run for the hills, they took the lumps and fought for what they believed in. It takes just as much balls taking the risk with your action.My name is Fiction said:"If he was brave" Get the fuck out with that bullshit. Because your in front of a key board you can call a man a ***** for running away from his own country? Would you brave face the prospects of never seeing your family again and being locked away in the "New" gulags of gitmo? Its was a sane choice and you should thank him more and criticize less. It takes balls to have a moral compass.BoredRolePlayer said:Hey and those prisoners in Gitmo were making splashes in the news when they went on a hunger strike didn't they? The guy who leaked those documents is in the news for his trail. The more people say this man is a terrorist and know why he was in jail he wouldn't be forgotten. And so fast no one would know who did the leaks, guess the Washington Post and Guardian wouldn't continue this all important story they knew who leaked it. He could have filmed the whole thing and leaked it all over the web so it will always be floating around. No one is going to forget this. No sir I don't think he should have ran, to me he is a coward he leaked important information, I am not here to fight about this with you. I made my peace on it, I will admit he did good but he is not brave. If he truly have honor in what he did, he would've stand your ground.Devil said:If you knew anything about the legal powers of the United States, you'd run too. They just have to claim you're a terrorist and you can be indefinitely locked up in Gitmo bay for the rest of your life with no trial or anything. If he hadn't run, they would have made him disappear so fast the news agencies would have never known who did the leak. By running, he puts international pressure on the US so if they try and force him to be returned to the US they have to internationally announce they're going to put him on trial and that it's worth all the effort, which then brings up the whole story again of why they want him so badly.BoredRolePlayer said:Honestly I'm not mad at what Snowden did, I'm mad he ran from the country like a coward. If he truly believed he was doing it for the good of our country like he claims he shouldn't have ran to China. I honestly can't respect a guy who sits there acting like he is trying to be a hero yet runs like a coward, if your going to stand up for what you feel is right you gotta face any bad thing that comes your way.
Basically, if he stayed, nothing would have accomplished. I'm sorry your ideal world is so perfect, but things just don't work that way. He left to gain asylum because of his crimes, even though they're moral and legal, would have made him disappear.
Hell, I love the US and I want to serve in the USAF still after doing their ROTC programs to become an officer in the Air Force, but we have to know that it's not perfect. Gitmo is a stain on our record and so is the Patriot Act and now the NSA. The more drama Snowden can create the bigger the attention the world will give. Because right now everyone is forgetting about the incident in less than a week and things are going back to normal. What kind of fucked up world is this? People are accepting what happened now. Snowden is making sure there is still news about the story and ensures that there is hope.
Also "sir" I believe I said earlier in this post
I'm not against his leaks, I'm tired of hearing how he believes it's our choice, yet runs to another country. And no less to the Chinese (well Hong Kong for now), because see now people can twist the story that he could possibly give even more secrets to the Chinese government with all of his access and pretty much make him into a villain given the recent Chinese cyber attacks.(which they are trying to do now). So no any good he could have done can be now twisted as "he is a traitor" and him running like that only proves their point more to the public eye. That's why I called him a coward, because now it wouldn't be hard for the government to say "Now we must strengthen our secrets, we must snoop even more, and we can trust anyone with secrets because they might run to the enemy"(although Hong Kong/China isn't our enemy).Honestly I'm not mad at what Snowden did