NSA + FBI Files Leaked, Massive Snooping on Millions of Americans

[Devil's Due]

Well, we all knew the NSA was a bit of a wonky organization, but who knew they'd go this far?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/06/politics/nsa-verizon-records/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
And
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/06/06/189132530/spy-agencys-collection-of-phone-records-reopens-controversy
And
http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/06/18806685-data-collection-divide-muddles-party-labels-makes-strange-bedfellows?lite


Apparnetly, a whistle blower announced that the NSA and FBI were allowed to collect "Meta Data" on every American phone call made in the past 3 months and check for multiple areas within with no need for a warrant or probable cause.

And not a day later, another leak was announced that the NSA has been "mining" online files of every American at the same time with massive chunks of all their online, email and personal photos and data.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/06/politics/nsa-internet-mining/index.html

The best part? The White House is defending it, Congress is mostly defending it. The NSA director later went on air saying he refuses to step down still and continues on with his mission (MSNBC interview).

I'm just spreading the word so this isn't thrown under the rug and forgotten. I have no idea what to do or suggest, but word needs to spread and a magnifying glass needs to be used on the NSA and FBI now more than ever.

I will update it when I get more info / figure things out.

So what are your feelings on the matter? Is this good for civil defense? Bad for civil liberties? A mix? Please share your feelings.

EDIT: Why is this thread being ignored but the threads involving a few guys making sexist remarks suddenly wildfire that has hundreds of replies? Is what random people say more important than an entire governmental conspiracy and invasion? There is a reason this crap is being allowed because it's ignored. Most news websites aren't even talking about it anymore and it's only been 24 hours.

 

[Vegosiux]

Now, to get this out of the way,

do they have a dedicated unit to sift through people's digital porn stashes? You know, a unit with extra mental fortitude training. Rule 34 is weeeeeeeird.

Now, it also seems the government and the corporations are in cahoots! That's going to cause some fun responses from some people.

 

[Comocat]

The weird part to me is Obama just gave a speech where he called for the drawing down of the War on Terrorism. Now we learn that the US is actively and currently investigating the phone records of millions of American citizens. The words and the actions don't line up.

Edit: It's worth pointing out that the reason Verizon gave up those phone records was they were legally compelled to do so and simultaneously compelled to not say anything about it. I'm puzzled why Verizon didn't fight this though- they certainly are large enough to do so and I doubt there would be much political fallout. "What a mega-corporation wouldn't give the government unlimited access to my phone records? I'm taking my business elsewhere!"

I'd love to see an ATT commercial- US largest 4G network and we aren't giving your info to the government!

 

[Amethyst Wind]

Hahahahahahahaha!

I find this incredibly funny. I'm not American so I can do that.

I have no doubt that my own government is looking more over my shoulder than I realise but I'd prefer they come talk to me directly rather than simply watching. It'd make for a more interesting day. Who knows, I might be able to talk my way into some work for them. There are worse careers than Big-Brothering the general populace who I have no real affinity for. I wouldn't care either way if I found somebody who was up to no good, I could just report them and be done with it. Move onto the next random.

 

[DoPo]

do they have a dedicated unit to sift through people's digital porn stashes? You know, a unit with extra mental fortitude training. Rule 34 is weeeeeeeird.

Yes, they do - that's Skynet. Keep that in mind as it would explain

Spoiler: some things

in the future.

OT: it's not like that's the first time questionable practices [http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=129236621626462&w=2] were reported. What can I say? "Who watches the watchers" seems creepily relevant, for example. Yeah, I'll go with that. It's a cop out but whatever.

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

The weird part to me is Obama just gave a speech where he called for the drawing down of the War on Terrorism. Now we learn that the US is actively and currently investigating the phone records of millions of American citizens. The words and the actions don't line up.

Edit: It's worth pointing out that the reason Verizon gave up those phone records was they were legally compelled to do so and simultaneously compelled to not say anything about it. I'm puzzled why Verizon didn't fight this though- they certainly are large enough to do so and I doubt there would be much political fallout. "What a mega-corporation wouldn't give the government unlimited access to my phone records? I'm taking my business elsewhere!"

I'd love to see an ATT commercial- US largest 4G network and we aren't giving your info to the government!

The US government can kill any court case it wishes by invoking "National Security." Any attempts to fight it could easily be thrown out of court. I also imagine the US could do many nasty things to encourage Verizon to comply (with how many inane regulations we have, and how long our tax code is, they can sight all kinds of nonsense to ruin Verizon's day).

 

[Ferisar]

I'm not indifferent, but I'm fairly hopelessly depressed about it coming to light. It's not surprising, it's irritating, it's idiotic, but it's also the country some of us live in.

I hate news like this because all it does is make me feel incredibly shitty and insignificant (moreso than I already am).
CAPTCHA: time will tell

I sure fucking hope so.

 

[Devil's Due]

I'm not indifferent, but I'm fairly hopelessly depressed about it coming to light. It's not surprising, it's irritating, it's idiotic, but it's also the country some of us live in.

I hate news like this because all it does is make me feel incredibly shitty and insignificant (moreso than I already am).
CAPTCHA: time will tell

I sure fucking hope so.

Agreed, it makes me fairly sad. My entire family has served in the U.S. military and it's almost my turn, but while I really want to continue on the family line and get my own term in, I'm hesitant to join up knowing I'd be defending these sort of actions. I wasn't ignorant that shady things happened, but to openly go out and basically say "fuck everyone" on national TV makes me very hesitant.

 

[Lilani]

Ohnoez, they know I got a call from my boyfriend last week about which theater we were going to see Iron Man 3 at! MY LIFE HAS BEEN RUINED BY THIS INVASION OF MY PRIVACY!!!!!!!!!!!

...Yeah, that's more or less how I feel about it. I sort of thought phone carriers were required to keep phone records, anyway. And with so much conversation moving from straight phone calls to emails and social networking, the idea that they would also want some of that data isn't surprising at all. Again, I sort of thought that was already being done already.

I sort of fell like people who get really freaked out by this stuff are either very arrogant, or just very poor at keeping things in perspective. Like yeah, the government has your web history and emails you've sent. So scary, right? But what exactly are they going to do with that? Surreptitiously send your browser history to your spouse and show them the porn you stream? Forward that email about a surprise birthday party to the friend you were having the party for? Bring you up on charges based on that lasagna you snap chatted to your aunt? Shit on a stick. They've got better things to be doing than assigning five agents to investigate that conversation you had with your mother about what to get your dad for Father's day.

 

[flarty]

Ohnoez, they know I got a call from my boyfriend last week about which theater we were going to see Iron Man 3 at! MY LIFE HAS BEEN RUINED BY THIS INVASION OF MY PRIVACY!!!!!!!!!!!

...Yeah, that's more or less how I feel about it. I sort of thought phone carriers were required to keep phone records, anyway. And with so much conversation moving from straight phone calls to emails and social networking, the idea that they would also want some of that data isn't surprising at all. Again, I sort of thought that was already being done already.

I sort of fell like people who get really freaked out by this stuff are either very arrogant, or just very poor at keeping things in perspective. Like yeah, the government has your web history and emails you've sent. So scary, right? But what exactly are they going to do with that? Surreptitiously send your browser history to your spouse and show them the porn you stream? Forward that email about a surprise birthday party to the friend you were having the party for? Bring you up on charges based on that lasagna you snap chatted to your aunt? Shit on a stick. They've got better things to be doing than assigning five agents to investigate that conversation you had with your mother about what to get your dad for Father's day.

I think its more a case of being treated like a criminal without actually committing any crime.

 

[frizzlebyte]

The weird part to me is Obama just gave a speech where he called for the drawing down of the War on Terrorism. Now we learn that the US is actively and currently investigating the phone records of millions of American citizens. The words and the actions don't line up.

Sure they do. If you proactively monitor and take action against those who would threaten you (not just terrorists in that category), you don't have to war anymore. Law-enforcement can take care of it then.

Ohnoez, they know I got a call from my boyfriend last week about which theater we were going to see Iron Man 3 at! MY LIFE HAS BEEN RUINED BY THIS INVASION OF MY PRIVACY!!!!!!!!!!!

...Yeah, that's more or less how I feel about it. I sort of thought phone carriers were required to keep phone records, anyway. And with so much conversation moving from straight phone calls to emails and social networking, the idea that they would also want some of that data isn't surprising at all. Again, I sort of thought that was already being done already.

I sort of fell like people who get really freaked out by this stuff are either very arrogant, or just very poor at keeping things in perspective. Like yeah, the government has your web history and emails you've sent. So scary, right? But what exactly are they going to do with that? Surreptitiously send your browser history to your spouse and show them the porn you stream? Forward that email about a surprise birthday party to the friend you were having the party for? Bring you up on charges based on that lasagna you snap chatted to your aunt? Shit on a stick. They've got better things to be doing than assigning five agents to investigate that conversation you had with your mother about what to get your dad for Father's day.

The problem is, what if I go to get a government job, and someone who is on the hiring staff doesn't like the things I've accessed or written in my emails, which they have to access to do a background check? The "I don't do anything wrong, so it can't hurt me," is all well and good , but who's to say what is and isn't okay? This is a slippery slope, and that argument ain't always a fallacy.

 

[Ferisar]

Ohnoez, they know I got a call from my boyfriend last week about which theater we were going to see Iron Man 3 at! MY LIFE HAS BEEN RUINED BY THIS INVASION OF MY PRIVACY!!!!!!!!!!!

...Yeah, that's more or less how I feel about it. I sort of thought phone carriers were required to keep phone records, anyway. And with so much conversation moving from straight phone calls to emails and social networking, the idea that they would also want some of that data isn't surprising at all. Again, I sort of thought that was already being done already.

I sort of fell like people who get really freaked out by this stuff are either very arrogant, or just very poor at keeping things in perspective. Like yeah, the government has your web history and emails you've sent. So scary, right? But what exactly are they going to do with that? Surreptitiously send your browser history to your spouse and show them the porn you stream? Forward that email about a surprise birthday party to the friend you were having the party for? Bring you up on charges based on that lasagna you snap chatted to your aunt? Shit on a stick. They've got better things to be doing than assigning five agents to investigate that conversation you had with your mother about what to get your dad for Father's day.

I don't particularly enjoy knowing that everything that I do gets monitored. Yeah, obviously they could not give less of a fuck about the average person and what they do, but it's not a comfortable thought.

etc etc slippery slope and all that stupid shit. An involuntary invasion of privacy is still exactly what it sounds like, sooo, yeah?

Also, what was said above. It isn't "under suspicion until further notice" It's "innocent until proven guilty".

As a note, the only thing humorous about this that I would find funny in application with the internet is catching minors watching porn.

 

[Vegosiux]

But what exactly are they going to do with that? Surreptitiously send your browser history to your spouse and show them the porn you stream? Forward that email about a surprise birthday party to the friend you were having the party for? Bring you up on charges based on that lasagna you snap chatted to your aunt? Shit on a stick. They've got better things to be doing than assigning five agents to investigate that conversation you had with your mother about what to get your dad for Father's day.

But what if you communicate in a foreign language and they're too stupid to translate properly? I mean tropes work here too! [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EitherWorldDominationOrSomethingAboutBananas]

And I'm only 90%-kidding; how often does basic stuff get confused; Slovenia for Slovakia, Chechen Republic for Czech Republic, etc.

Maybe it's arrogant, but whatever I do in the privacy of my home isn't anyone's business, as long as it's legal. Even if nobody's going to "do" anything with the information of what kind of porn, world domination schemes or lasagna recipes I'm browsing in my free time, it's still nobody's business but my own.

Oh and some people would "do" stuff with that information and start spamming me with ads. And that's terrible.

 

[Nurb]

Why is anyone surprised, Obama made parts of the Patriot Act permanent and expanded Bush's domestic spying policies. He's a spineless 70's republican that's done nothing for personal liberties or government transparency. Enjoy your Black Bush.

 

[Lilani]

Sheesh, so many replies so quickly. Here are my responses for tonight, I'm going to bed after this.

I don't particularly enjoy knowing that everything that I do gets monitored. Yeah, obviously they could not give less of a fuck about the average person and what they do, but it's not a comfortable thought.

etc etc slippery slope and all that stupid shit. An involuntary invasion of privacy is still exactly what it sounds like, sooo, yeah?

But it's not even monitoring, really. They have a shitton of data, that doesn't mean anybody's going through it. And they aren't. They simply don't have enough time and resources to have people physically interacting with every single bit of data they have. The most they have is a database they can query for people and keywords and such. Ain't nobody got time fo readin yo emails to yo mama (unless yo mama's planning to set off a bomb someplace).

The problem is, what if I go to get a government job, and someone who is on the hiring staff doesn't like the things I've accessed or written in my emails, which they have to access to do a background check? The "I don't do anything wrong, so it can't hurt me," is all well and good , but who's to say what is and isn't okay? This is a slippery slope, and that argument ain't always a fallacy.

I think you're forgetting that we're talking about Homeland Security and the FBI. I highly doubt your average civil servant is going to have any sort of access to that. Even in a background check, hell the very fact that you brought that up says to me you don't even understand what a background check is. A background check is a compilation of criminal, commercial, and financial records. They're used to confirm past employment, credit history, and criminal history. Nothing "personal" is ever a part of the process, and never will be because private companies can do a check as well as the government.

I think its more a case of being treated like a criminal without actually committing any crime.

Again, who's being treated like a criminal? So they've got a big fat database, and somewhere on it is a few of your emails and phone calls. How is that different from having your fingerprints on record? They aren't going to do anything with it unless they're given a reason to.

But what if you communicate in a foreign language and they're too stupid to translate properly? I mean tropes work here too! [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EitherWorldDominationOrSomethingAboutBananas]

And I'm only 90%-kidding; how often does basic stuff get confused; Slovenia for Slovakia, Chechen Republic for Czech Republic, etc.

Maybe it's arrogant, but whatever I do in the privacy of my home isn't anyone's business, as long as it's legal. Even if nobody's going to "do" anything with the information of what kind of porn, world domination schemes or lasagna recipes I'm browsing in my free time, it's still nobody's business but my own.

Oh and some people would "do" stuff with that information and start spamming me with ads. And that's terrible.

Then if it goes that far that'll get cleared up in litigation. Best case scenario: you settle with the government and either get nothing or a few million for the mishap. Worst case scenario: you're dead on the street because the government hired a hit and their better translator was out to lunch when they went through your emails.

And eh, I'm not going to question your standards for privacy. I personally think it's a bit silly, it costs money to do all this stuff and the way I see it simply agreeing to participate in today's world with today's technology is more or less an automatic surrender of any definition of "privacy."

 

[crimson sickle2]

I don't really get why the NSA is doing this on American sites, they're only supposed to target threats outside the country...Regardless, it's still annoying, both agencies have more important programs being shut-down or screwed, so I don't see how these programs help with anything other than getting even more bad PR for the current and previous administration.

 

[flarty]

34"]
Again, who's being treated like a criminal? So they've got a big fat database, and somewhere on it is a few of your emails and phone calls. How is that different from having your fingerprints on record? They aren't going to do anything with it unless they're given a reason to.

Everyone basically is now being treated like a criminal, where as before you had to be under suspicion of committing a crime, then a warrant would of had to of been obtained to monitor phone calls and internet activity. Now everyone gets monitored on the off chance they might do something illegal. That is pretty much treating someone like a criminal. You argument even supports this, maybe you could tell me how the authorities get your fingerprints in the first place, here in Britain you need to of committed a crime first.

Enjoy your Black Bush.

i loled