Nuclear Energy?

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manic_depressive13

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Sansha said:
BringBackBuck said:
2 pages in and no mention of the hazardous by-products of nuclear power?

Is that because it is not your problem because your country sends it's spent nuclear fuel to Australia to bury in the middle of our desert where it remains dangerous for thousands (maybe tens of thousands) of years causing god knows what damage to the ecosystem?

Or did everyone just forget about nuclear waste?
I don't think the vast, endless desert of Australia where nobody and nothing lives counts as an 'ecosystem'.
Plus, Australia gets paid metric fucktons to have the waste dumped there.
And besides, it's only Australia.
The Australian deserts may seem barren and empty, but in reality they are rich habitats full of things that can kill you.

I also thinks it's strange that whenever a discussion of nuclear energy is brought up, all anyone talks about how unlikely a meltdown is. They talk about how clean and efficient it is, and generally talk it up as if it's the fucking messiah that will deliver us into the future. Okay, say that a meltdown is virtually imppossible. Nuclear power plants still produce fucktonnes of waste that we can't really dispose of properly. Yes, arguably it's a fair bit better than coal, but coal and nuclear are no longer our only options. It's just that no one wants to hear about clean energy. Properly clean energy. Not "clean" in the sense of nuclear energy, which is as clean as my cancerous colon.
 

Major_Tom

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Jun 29, 2008
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They are one of the safest (no that's not a typo) types of power plants (unlike coal plants), have low impact on the environment (unlike dams) and are very efficient (unlike wind or solar plants). Why aren't we all using them? Stupid media scaring people with bullshit.
 

BlackStar42

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Antari said:
Blablahb said:
Bradeck said:
Can someone enlighten me as to what happens to radioactive waste?
For instance it gets re-enriched to be used as fuel a second time.

It's impossible to enrich spent nuclear fuel to weapons-grade radioactive material by the way. The only way to do that is to use the original fuel, and enrich it hugely.
Antari said:
Nuclear energy is just another resource limited power generating system. It will only work for so long until you run out of fuel for it. Hydrogen is the only answer for long term development. Its the only limitless source of fuel.
You're aware that you have to spend more energy than the combustion will yield, to create hydrogen in the first place?
That won't always be so, they are pretty rapidly improving the power requirements to create hydrogen in large amounts. The progress will put Nuclear energy into the history books in time.
It's already been mentioned, but you can't get more energy out of this reaction than you put in.
Thermodynamics is a cruel mistress. Now, assuming that nuclear fusion becomes viable, you could indeed use hydrogen ions and deuterium to produce power. And helium. Who doesn't love helium?
 

Demongeneral109

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Jan 23, 2010
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GoaThief said:
JeanLuc761 said:
Are there other possible environmental factors that could be causing the high cancer rates?
No.

The pattern is repeated elsewhere but these things tend to get brushed under the carpet.

Unless your local plant is experiencing radiation leaks, whether they be airborne or through groundwater, the plant shouldn't be affecting that.
Says you with absolutely no first hand experience. On paper everything is made to be kosher but the reality is radiation always gets into the surrounding area, "venting" happens on nearly every single plant and is often not even covered in the news, even local. There are other methods too, strange how the surrounding seawater is devoid of much life and sits at a few degrees higher than elsewhere in the estuary.
the estuary is because of the reduced oxygen in the higher-temperature water, not nuclear run-off. the water is used to cool the heating power-system, that which isn't vented from the cooling towers goes into local water-sources, and is not irradiated

As far as Fukushima goes, in my opinion that event is not a good argument against the use of nuclear power due to the extreme circumstances surrounding it.
Any nuclear plant built around water (all of them) has the potential to be struck by tsunamis and flooding of various kinds, to assume it's not going to happen just because it hasn't already is folly in the extreme. Nuclear energy has only been around for a blink of an eye, Fukushima is a fine example as is Chernobyl. These things will happen again and in greater numbers if these plants are continued to be built.

Meanwhile, 75% of France's energy demands are provided entirely by nuclear power, and they're having no problems.
You're joking, right? Twice the rate of childhood leukaemia around French nuclear plants [http://jech.bmj.com/content/55/7/469.long] is just one random example. The country has seen many thousands protest against nuclear power within the last year alone.

There are 435 nuclear plants in the world, and only two of which have had a catastrophic problem, and those issues have been rectified by modern reactor designs.
Catastrophic problems are not the only problems, aside from which ONE is too many as it is. If you were born around the immediate area of a disaster you might well be saying otherwise, if you were still living of course.

Most nuclear plants are still using outdated technology, this is all due to money. They aren't cheap and corner-cutting happens all the time. Humans are not infallible either and mistakes will be made and you can bet your ass that terrorist groups are eyeing up nuclear reactors with glee.

Then, there's thorium nuclear power which is quite literally meltdown-proof.
I guess you missed the key part about "scientific" groups and thinktanks backed by some of the richest corporations on the planet responsible for some of, if not the worst man-made disasters the world has seen. Let that sink in for a minute.

Additionally, a wind farm is not nearly efficient enough to feasibly provide enough power to a large population.
You must have glazed over the key tidal barrage part, which accounts for a lot more and is definitely powerful enough to power large populations. As I previously stated, the plans are there it's just the simple fact that energy giants are more interested in making a bigger profit, aka nuclear. Don't try to tell me it's impossible as even the biased media and politicians around here agree it's feasible yet finance plays a big role.

We haven't even touched upon the transport and disposal of nuclear material yet, another big problem that inevitably gets sidelined in these discussions. But hey, what does a guy who has lived in the shadow of a large nuclear plant for years know anyway?[/quote]
 

Necron_warrior

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Mar 30, 2011
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Its nice and all, but I'd go for the Ducks any day

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(Skip to 33:00)

God-damned politician reporters -.-
 

Scylla6

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Nov 17, 2009
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I would like to point out here, considering two people have brought it up, that nuclear waste disposal sites are not really that dangerous. Yes, they are radioactive, and yes, you shouldn't build a town on one, but they aren't likely to explode or anything. The main danger is just in sign-posting the area to keep people from building their house on something that may cause cancer in 20 years. In the end just ask yourself, if nuclear waste was that active, don't you think we would use it in the reactors again as fuel? (spoilers: We do)
 

Alssadar

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Sep 19, 2010
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...and I just decided to make this the subject of my 10 page paper today. Sweetness.
With my rather lack of knowledge on the subject, I am supportive of it for rather clean production capabilities, as well as those that are installed on naval ships to provide longlasting power over the ships' extensive career, for better or worse.
 

OriginalLadders

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Scylla6 said:
I would like to point out here, considering two people have brought it up, that nuclear waste disposal sites are not really that dangerous. Yes, they are radioactive, and yes, you shouldn't build a town on one, but they aren't likely to explode or anything. The main danger is just in sign-posting the area to keep people from building their house on something that may cause cancer in 20 years. In the end just ask yourself, if nuclear waste was that active, don't you think we would use it in the reactors again as fuel? (spoilers: We do)
Not to mention the effort that goes into the storage; it's mixed with glass, which is surrounded by cement, which is kept in a welded-shut steel barrel, which is kept in a welded-shut stainless steel barrel, which is wrapped in a thick layer of clay, which is buried deep underground, away from the water table, in only the most geologically stable places.

Most of the radiation it produces couldn't even escape the glass layer, and most of the remainder could at best just get out of the cement layer.
 

triggrhappy94

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Apr 24, 2010
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Maybe asking what's your favorite form of nuclear energy would have made for a more diverse discussion.
 

Vigormortis

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Antari said:
That won't always be so, they are pretty rapidly improving the power requirements to create hydrogen in large amounts. The progress will put Nuclear energy into the history books in time.
I'm more inclined to think nuclear fusion will be the thing that will put nuclear fission "into the history books".

It's drastically safer, cleaner, has no risk of melt-down, and the only by-product is water.

Yeah. I'm pretty sure when stable, efficient fusion is achieved, all other forms of mass-energy-generation will be "put into the history books".
 

BlackStar42

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Jan 23, 2010
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Vigormortis said:
Antari said:
That won't always be so, they are pretty rapidly improving the power requirements to create hydrogen in large amounts. The progress will put Nuclear energy into the history books in time.
I'm more inclined to think nuclear fusion will be the thing that will put nuclear fission "into the history books".

It's drastically safer, cleaner, has no risk of melt-down, and the only by-product is water.

Yeah. I'm pretty sure when stable, efficient fusion is achieved, all other forms of mass-energy-generation will be "put into the history books".
Sorry, but the byproduct isn't water- you're thinking of hydrogen combustion. Assuming you're fusing hydrogen and tritium, what you will get at the other end is helium. And a crapload of energy.
 

Nooh

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Mar 31, 2011
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I must say that nuclear energy is the most effective, safe, and clean form of energy, second to only solar power which is very, very, very far from being effective. As previously mentioned, the safety on modern nuclear power plants is very high and they are constantly coming up with new methods to reduce the hazard of the waste, and even use the waste as fuel. Last I read was a thorium-based power plant which transferred heat with salt instead of water. Thorium-232 actually decays to Uranium-233 and as it's far more common than uranium, it can prove for even cheaper energy.

Oh yeah, hydro energy is also very good, but like wind it has a very definite limit on how much energy it can produce. And for anyone claiming wind power is unreliable these days, you are far from right.

And on the point of using coal to generate electricity, I have to say it is a bad idea even if the only waste is H2O and CO2, because we all know what CO2 does in too large amounts.
 

Vigormortis

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BlackStar42 said:
Vigormortis said:
Antari said:
That won't always be so, they are pretty rapidly improving the power requirements to create hydrogen in large amounts. The progress will put Nuclear energy into the history books in time.
I'm more inclined to think nuclear fusion will be the thing that will put nuclear fission "into the history books".

It's drastically safer, cleaner, has no risk of melt-down, and the only by-product is water.

Yeah. I'm pretty sure when stable, efficient fusion is achieved, all other forms of mass-energy-generation will be "put into the history books".
Sorry, but the byproduct isn't water- you're thinking of hydrogen combustion. Assuming you're fusing hydrogen and tritium, what you will get at the other end is helium. And a crapload of energy.
Yes. I jumped the gun. I recall hearing talk of the eventual goal of fusion reactors being efficient enough that the only by-product would be water. Whether this is still the case, I've no idea. I haven't read up on the research in while.

My bad.
 

BlackStar42

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Jan 23, 2010
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Vigormortis said:
BlackStar42 said:
Vigormortis said:
Antari said:
That won't always be so, they are pretty rapidly improving the power requirements to create hydrogen in large amounts. The progress will put Nuclear energy into the history books in time.
I'm more inclined to think nuclear fusion will be the thing that will put nuclear fission "into the history books".

It's drastically safer, cleaner, has no risk of melt-down, and the only by-product is water.

Yeah. I'm pretty sure when stable, efficient fusion is achieved, all other forms of mass-energy-generation will be "put into the history books".
Sorry, but the byproduct isn't water- you're thinking of hydrogen combustion. Assuming you're fusing hydrogen and tritium, what you will get at the other end is helium. And a crapload of energy.
Yes. I jumped the gun. I recall hearing talk of the eventual goal of fusion reactors being efficient enough that the only by-product would be water. Whether this is still the case, I've no idea. I haven't read up on the research in while.

My bad.
It's not a question of efficiency- no matter how advanced the technology, you cannot fuse 2H together and get H2O, it just isn't possible. You can't create the extra O out of thin air. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but that's what 4 hours of physical chemistry lectures do to you :)
 

Vigormortis

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BlackStar42 said:
It's not a question of efficiency- no matter how advanced the technology, you cannot fuse 2H together and get H2O, it just isn't possible. You can't create the extra O out of thin air. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but that's what 4 hours of physical chemistry lectures do to you :)
Believe it or not, I AM well aware that you can't fuse two hydrogen atoms to get water. What I had read was a reactor using both hydrogen AND oxygen as it's fuel source.

Specifically, hydrogen gas as the base of the reaction and a combination of liquid oxygen and another chemical I can't recall at the moment. That's what the gist of the article I had read was getting at.

If I could even begin to remember where I read said article, I'd link it. But, it was some years ago, so I've no idea at this point.

Also, I alluded to the efficiency of the fusion reactors because, at this point, the best we've achieved is 65%. As in, for the amount of energy put into starting and maintaining the reaction, we only get 65% back in usable electricity.
 

Angie7F

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Nov 11, 2011
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I'm from Tokyo. I was here a year ago during the 3.11 earthquake. and I still support nuclear reactors.
Especially in Japan, because we cant really use wind and water (not enough land) nor is gas and coal enough to support the highly advanced cities that guzzle electricity.
Solar panels are out of the question as we need more electricity and money to create them in the first place, let alone Japan not having as much sun. (rainy seasons etc)
Sure, many other countries are lucky to have natural disaster free locations for power plants, but for us, even if there were no 100% safe areas, we still need it to keep the country running.
I think currently all our nuclear reactors are stopped (not sure) and thats the reason why our electricity fee will be increased.
But its already so expensive compared to other countries!!!
 

Jegsimmons

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Nov 14, 2010
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best energy source ever.

infact the only downside is the waste (which isnt really a hazard at all) but that could be avoided entirely if we undo the breeder reactor ban (thanks CARTER you dick) which could extend our nuclear power supply by at least a few hundred years.

And for every one bitching about meltdowns: Chernobyl was a shitty communist one, and the japanese ones were not upto date and hit by an earth quake and fucking tsunamis, freak incident.
also three mile island had no leak, it was a busted valve but they shut it down anyway for safety, in actuality, its one of the safest energy sources ever.
 

Jegsimmons

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Marcus Kehoe said:
But nuclear waste the come's from this practice is very dangerous. If their was a proper way to dispose of it then I'd support it more, but it's a little to dangerous of a bi-product for me.
i already made a post about it but, they seal it in concrete and bury it in bumfuck no where hundreds of feet under ground.

they do this because the carter administration banned breeder reactors which could turn waste into fuel and extend the usage of nuclear energy by hundreds of years.