Nudity, americans and teen pregnancy
- Thread starter Sol_HSA
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We're a bass ackwards country.Sol_HSA said:
Many of the places with the harshest sex laws have the highest rates of teen pregnancy, cheating in marriage, STD transmission, etc. While I'm te first to point out correlation does not prove causation, it does fly in the face of the logic that if we make sex taboo, people won't do it.
In Britain, we're a lot more relaxed, and my boyfriend who lived in America for a while said the only sort of show that showed nudity was Nip/tuck. Apparently America don't have a watershed too? Everything is censored, whereas 9:30pm is watershed over here, where the ruder shows come on TV and no one bats an eye lid.
I think we're the worst for teenage pregnancies though, but I'm not sure.
I think we're the worst for teenage pregnancies though, but I'm not sure.
It really comes down to culture vs parenting in my opinion. Our culture was founded from a puritanical base so the aversion from sex is prevalent right there. However back in those times, it was a little easier to keep your daughters locked up in your house until they married, usually arranged, so teen pregnancy was LESS of an issue.
However, I would bet dollars to francs, euros to dollars, or whatever works out, that French parents create an environment that offers not only a comfortability with sex, but also a responsibility towards it. It's easier to be responsible towards sex when you're open about it. Given that our society promotes that parents are close lip and preach abstinence, the parents don't offer comfortability with sex, therefore, they don't instill the responsibility towards it.
Hence teen pregnancy is rampant here.
However, I would bet dollars to francs, euros to dollars, or whatever works out, that French parents create an environment that offers not only a comfortability with sex, but also a responsibility towards it. It's easier to be responsible towards sex when you're open about it. Given that our society promotes that parents are close lip and preach abstinence, the parents don't offer comfortability with sex, therefore, they don't instill the responsibility towards it.
Hence teen pregnancy is rampant here.
I dont think that the sexuality in advertisements, etc. differs from what we get in Europe. All teens are exposed to that kind of content easily.
Maybe sex ed isn´t working properly in the U.S.? Contraception is key to prevent teen pregnancy, not censorship regarding sexuality in ads,movies etc.
Maybe sex ed isn´t working properly in the U.S.? Contraception is key to prevent teen pregnancy, not censorship regarding sexuality in ads,movies etc.
If people stop making a big deal about seeing a boob then others will not think it is a big deal.
for example if you tell a child that you are not allowed to play with this doll. The child will want to and get the doll and play with it. The thought of something being off limits to them makes them want it more. if you don't make a big fuss about if they play with the doll then they won't care and will go on with their lives.
In the states, they see nudity you should only be doing two things, bathing or having sex. so if your not bathing then your having sex.
for example if you tell a child that you are not allowed to play with this doll. The child will want to and get the doll and play with it. The thought of something being off limits to them makes them want it more. if you don't make a big fuss about if they play with the doll then they won't care and will go on with their lives.
In the states, they see nudity you should only be doing two things, bathing or having sex. so if your not bathing then your having sex.
Most high school girls in America think they have to be whores and don't figure out that they're morons until college.
A friend of mine told me about a girl she knew back in high school who had the same whore mentality as the rest of her friends. She ended up getting pregnant, and the first thing her friends told her she should do was to drop out "because now she had a reason". Unlike the rest of the whores, she responded, "Um, no. I'll just go on maternity leave and come back to finish so I don't waste my life." Of course, her friends couldn't figure out why she would do something like that.
She went on to college, taking care of the baby along the way, even married the guy that knocked her up. While her whore mentality is what got her into that situation in the first place, she ended up taking some goddamn responsibility and turning her life around. Well, about as well as she could, given the circumstances.
A friend of mine told me about a girl she knew back in high school who had the same whore mentality as the rest of her friends. She ended up getting pregnant, and the first thing her friends told her she should do was to drop out "because now she had a reason". Unlike the rest of the whores, she responded, "Um, no. I'll just go on maternity leave and come back to finish so I don't waste my life." Of course, her friends couldn't figure out why she would do something like that.
She went on to college, taking care of the baby along the way, even married the guy that knocked her up. While her whore mentality is what got her into that situation in the first place, she ended up taking some goddamn responsibility and turning her life around. Well, about as well as she could, given the circumstances.
The more strict the taboo, the less information and contraceptives are widely available, and a "the forbidden fruit is extra tasty" effect should not be ruled out either.
It's perfectly natural that prudish countries will see more of the problematic aspects of sexual behaviour, since they don't have the ability to deal with them pre-emptively. The presence of extensive poverty and lack of affordable access to higher education in some parts of American society - whereas the European welfare ones are more evenly spread out - contributes as well.
It's perfectly natural that prudish countries will see more of the problematic aspects of sexual behaviour, since they don't have the ability to deal with them pre-emptively. The presence of extensive poverty and lack of affordable access to higher education in some parts of American society - whereas the European welfare ones are more evenly spread out - contributes as well.
America has the fundamental flaw of 400 years of history and not accepting that any idea thought of in that period of time that was good at that time is no longer good. before contraception nudity needs to be frowned upon but in modern society is generally OK. while violence which was once important isn't good any more. they should say okay this is sex this is how it works good points bad points for gods sake use a condom go have fun and let them understand it have some fun before settling down. while with guns rather than it being a human right they should employ the great point "a man who believes having a gun is a good idea is precisely the sort of person i don't want to have a gun"
kids in the states dont get comprehensive sex ed. just abstinence only, nothing on birth control... the only greater failure i can see is the "war on drugs"
It's about societal norms. If nudity is normal in your society, then constantly referencing nudity is fine. If cultural attitudes toward nudity and sexuality are like they are here in America (that they should be private and between consenting adults), then lacing all your media with nudity can create problems.Sol_HSA said:
What's happening here is the media sees dollar signs with doing as much sex as they can "get away with." As a result, kids are being exposed to it at a younger age. Even if parents were doing the job of teaching sexual responsibility (They're not.), that's still going to entice kids to act like grown-ups.
As for the "no nudity, but murders are okay," I think you really have it backwards. We are far, far more lenient on sex than we are on violence in this country, if you really look into it. The Disney machine teaches kids from an early age that it's not enough to get by on talent, you've got to look/dress cute, too--you have to trade on your looks to be adored. That is media sexuality. It's just fully-clothed, and we allow it because of our pageant-culture fixation.
These kids learn to use cuteness, clothes, and make-up to get attention... and then when they get older, and they no longer get the "Oh, what a talented tween!" points, they learn very quickly that to keep up that attention, they need to amp up the sexuality. The attention that we put into these child stars is a gateway drug like no other.
But I think we need to be harder on media sexuality than media violence, for the following very simple reasons:
1) Sex is not illegal. Murder is. As such, kids are more likely to imitate the one that won't land them in jail.
2) Sex is fun for everyone involved. A gruesome murder is not. So, the child is more likely to find a willing partner for the sex.
3) Sex is easier to hide--both for the media and the kids. You'll likely know if your kid is getting into big fights or killing someone with an axe. You might not know he/she is out having sex.
4) Kids have all of the equipment for sex, but lack much of the equipment for large-scale violence. Availability plays a role in what kids will do.
5) Sex results in more kids, who will then result in even more. At the very least, violence results in a few less people. (Tongue-in-cheek here, but you can see how over-sexed kids are a bigger long-term problem)
Jumping Over Fences pretty much summed it up.
repression and the fact that if you kill someone you get less of a legal beating than if you come in some sort of sexual contact with the opposite sex ... yes, not only men can be a dreaded 'sex offender'
repression and the fact that if you kill someone you get less of a legal beating than if you come in some sort of sexual contact with the opposite sex ... yes, not only men can be a dreaded 'sex offender'
Well the murders are a sign of freedom. France for example has less violence, but also has a lot less personal freedom despite what the people there might think. To put things into perspective the entire "oil for food" scandal years ago demonstrated that France really doesn't have much in the way of freedom of the press. When they were caught red handed it took quite a while before their news really caught up with criticizing the goverment or admitting what it was up to. A point which influances a lot of things like how France voted when it came to "The War On Terror" and the invasion of Iraq. Even now I'm not too sure how many French people really "get" how their country was involved in breaking embargos and sanctions to profit from "under the table" trade with Saddam's regime. The cash flow from this which was substantial and disrupted by the war.Sol_HSA said:
In the US all the violence is because the people aren't powerless either before each other or before the goverment. It leads to a lot of the balance that allows us to maintain our high standard of freedom. One of my favorite Heinlan quotes sort of summarizes it "You can either have freedom, or you can have safety, never both".
A lot of countries *think* they have high degrees of personal freedom, but really don't, and all of the statistics slamming the US in the world is not going to change that.
To put things into perspective, in most first world countries (I'm tempted to say all of them) if there is a serious conflict between the goverment and a majority of citizens, what is going to happen? The answer is not bloody much because The Goverment has all the weapons. Also the higher the standards to join military and police forces (something some nations brag about) the less they truely become a force of "volunteers" and the greater the chance of those groups backing the goverment simply on orders.
In the US the fact that the populance is armed, and our authorities are made up of volunteers both means that a lot of our police and military are likely to refuse to follow orders if made to engage their own people during a power grab, and also that the people themselves are more than capable of fighting back.
Even if the goverment was to unleash the military on the civilian population, when the smoke cleared they would effectively level the entire nation and wind up taking over a wasteland. This simple fact does tend to limit the desire for power grabs.
Also to put things into a smaller scale perspective, in a nation where only the police tend to have guns, what do you do if the police are after you for something that is ridiculously unfair due to some bogus law? If you don't have access to guns yourself you don't do much.
On the other hand in the US you can engage the police. The police are more than capable of dealing with an armed individual, or even a small group of them, but can't deal with a popular revolt. What's more it also means that people passing laws have to be careful about what they do, because in the end you have to convince some cop who volunteered that the law is worth possibly getting their head blown off for. That limits what the goverment can do. If say the goverment made a law banning peanut butter or pokemon cards or something stupid (being random here) the bottom line is that it also needs to get the police to be willing to risk their lives to seize those things and make arrests.
The bottom line here is that the pros to the violence greatly outweigh the cons.
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When it comes to sex and nudity, it can be a difficult point to argue due to the lack of accurate information gathered from other countries.
One of the contreversies in the US for example is the right to an anonymous abortion. This is especially true in the case of teen pregnancies when the girl doesn't want their parents to know that they are getting an abortion.
In other countries such things aren't an issue, and you don't even see a paper trail. This is one of the big "Defenses" made for anonymous abortion, and also one of the reasons why you can't trust the statistics on subjects like this from other nations. All they can report is what the goverment has paperwork on, and how many people really want ANYONE to know about this kind of thing?
Also when it comes to things like crime statistics and the like, you also have to look at the standards of what constitutes a crime, and how the authorities react. I've heard estimates that the violent crime average throughout Europe might be 40 or even 100 times higher than reported. In part because with more gun control, firearms are less likely to be used, and cuts, bruises, etc... are much easier to cover up, treat, or pass off as accidents.
What's more the US apparently has a very liberal missing persons policy (and it has it's flaws) compared to most places in the world. In a lot of places in Europe it can take an act of congress to even get someone acknowleged as missing, despite what the laws might say on the subject. This apparently comes from the simple fact that it's been so relatively easy to cross over into another country, that few people want to start screaming "missing person" when they might have just decided to step out on a girlfriend/boyfriend or whatever and go kill a year or so in the country next door or whatnot. I seem to remember that getting a "missing persons" designation can sometimes as hard as getting a kidnapping acknowleged in the US because so few authorities want to risk wasting their time.
What this means is that murder, rape, white slavery, etc... are all much easier to get away with in a lot of places around the world, despite what the statistics might imply. Especially when you consider nations who want their stats to look good, as opposed to being accurate.
This basic fact is what has inspired admittedly over-the-top movies like the "Hostel" series. While an exagerration, the point is basically that in Europe it's comparitively easier to "disappear" someone, especially an outsider, than it is in the US.
Also a lot of nations (albiet not so much in Europe) take missing persons as a fact of life. This is why you actually see resentment of the US, and bad jokes about "missing white woman syndrome" when someone goes missing overseas and the US goverment gets involved. The neighbor's daughter might disappear for months and nobody bats an eye, but some American goes missing and you have the US Embassy forcing the authorities to take it seriously.
Just some random thoughts, but pretty much the point is that I think you have to take some of these criticisms of the US with a grain of salt. I both think our violent crime rate is not an entirely bad thing, and also greatly exagerrated especially when you consider the reality of other nations. I also think when it comes to sexuality and the negative effects that other countries aren't being accurate in showing the results, especially when it comes to things like abortion.
Understand also that putting the genie back in the bottle is always far more difficult than letting it out. If a nation decided to say raise their age of consent rather than lower it, imagine the problems when it say became illegal for some dude to have sex with his 16 year old wife or whatever.
Not to criticize that paticularly, but understand that in a general sense nations and cultures tend to find it easier to defend existing policies rather than to change them. Even a simple policy change could result in hundreds of thousands of people being put in jail when it comes to something fundemental like sex... and that's what it would take to enforce the law enough to get people to take it seriously. Right or wrong, nobody wants to see that many people getting "vanned" under any circumstances... not to mention the simple logistics of putting that many people into jail in order to pass the laws.