Obama proposes requiring students to stay in high school
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It doesn't even begin to address the problems with the education system, but yes. Kids should be required to finish high-school (or some equivalent -- be that a technical school, cyber-school, home-schooling with staunchly-defined curricular requirements, etc) the same way they're required to attend grade school (or equivalents).
You can barely get a decent job WITH a college degree these days. Some degrees are in fact useless whey you try to apply for jobs, unless of course you are only shooting to manage McDonalds..... Lastly, a college degree is not the "end all be all" to measure intelligence. I have met several people at my college that have doctoral degrees, and roughly half of them are complete and total morons.Zack Alklazaris said:
OT- Anyway, I don't think this is a good I idea. If it is ok for the school system to suspend someone for the year, effectively "perma-banning" them, why is not ok for the student to make the choice that school is not where they need to be? Would this "proposed legislation" limit a school's ability to force students to stop attending school, or is this just another case of "government knows best"? One thing that is taboo that NEEDS to be said though. Our country has need for uneducated and untrained workers. It is the prevailing thought that no American should have to get their hands dirty that has allowed for illegal immigrants to take over such a large portion of our agricultural workforce.
What is the purpose of getting a high school diploma or working hard to get a good job if people can just ride the welfare system and refuse to take the work available?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/14/alabama-immigration-law-workers
This is the important part.
Now don't get me wrong I am not supporting illegal immigrants by any means, but that is a whole other conversation in and of itself.
I think it's an ok idea, and i'm not just saying that because I finished High School 6 years ago and so this does not affect me in the slightest. At the same time... HS isn't for everybody, and for some it can be a very difficult experience (as it was for me during my first two years of it).
Honestly... while I think it is good for people to finish High School, ultimately this issue is irrelevant to me.
Honestly... while I think it is good for people to finish High School, ultimately this issue is irrelevant to me.
You live in or near Dayton, Ohio? No? Ok then. It may not be true everywhere, and I'm not saying it is, but if you live in or near here, it is very much TRUE, so apologies for basing my opinion of something off of something that is a PROVEN FACT where I live.evilneko said:
Even if it weren't, there's not much argument there. Most jobs require you to be drug-free to work to get your money, so why the fuck should people on welfare not be require to be drug-free to get their money? They shouldn't.
I'm not saying everyone that is on welfare is on drugs, that would be stupid, but I am saying that if I'm required to be drug free to bust my ass to earn my living, they should be required to be drug free to be lazy fucks.
I think it's a great thing as long as "until they are 18" is part of the deal. In the United States kids have no real rights until they turn 18 or they are emancipated by marriage or parenthood. If the parents won't force them to finish school then they should be forced to finish high school by law or be able to make the decision to be pretty much screwed here when they turn 18.
I'll add to this. Since most minimum wage jobs require that if you are over the age of 18 you have a High School Diploma OR a GED, welfare should also require the same. If you do not have one or the other, welfare should require you to get one shortly after you start getting assistance so that you can at least get a Mcjob and start working towards getting OFF welfare and back on your feet.Mick Myers said:
No, this is a terrible idea. The decision rests with a kid's legal guardian, not the government.
Since America has such a problem with obesity, how about forcing a healthy diet, and regular exercise on everyone? People would be healthier, live longer, and medical costs would plumment!
While we are saving lives, how about outlawing guns? Think of all the accidental deaths/violence that could be averted if guns simply didn't exist? There were some 650 accidental gun deaths in 2010, bet those people wish this law was in place.
Concerning violence, why not put a nationwide curfew in effect? Since most violence occurs at night, we can avoid the danger by making staying out itself illegal. Think of all we could save by requring less policemen, at the same time saving more lives!
Just because a law has good intentions, doesn't mean it's a good law. If you really want freedom, then you have to allow people to make bad decisions for themselves, not just good ones. (hell, just look at Prohibition. It was supposed to prevent abusive husbands from beating wives, cure people "enslaved" by alcohol, and protect the morals of America. Look how well that turned out.)
Since America has such a problem with obesity, how about forcing a healthy diet, and regular exercise on everyone? People would be healthier, live longer, and medical costs would plumment!
While we are saving lives, how about outlawing guns? Think of all the accidental deaths/violence that could be averted if guns simply didn't exist? There were some 650 accidental gun deaths in 2010, bet those people wish this law was in place.
Concerning violence, why not put a nationwide curfew in effect? Since most violence occurs at night, we can avoid the danger by making staying out itself illegal. Think of all we could save by requring less policemen, at the same time saving more lives!
Just because a law has good intentions, doesn't mean it's a good law. If you really want freedom, then you have to allow people to make bad decisions for themselves, not just good ones. (hell, just look at Prohibition. It was supposed to prevent abusive husbands from beating wives, cure people "enslaved" by alcohol, and protect the morals of America. Look how well that turned out.)
Huh.. Can't believe I forgot to put that part in. Thank you sir, at least a few people here seem to be using their brains on this topic.Digitaldreamer7 said:
I also want to add... before people start flaming me, that welfare should host the courses and pay for them. I have no problem paying for welfare that improves the recipient's ability to provide for themselves. I'd just hope it gets reformed to the point it requires people to further education until they no longer need welfare.Mick Myers said:
This. Took the words right out of my mouth. Glad to find somebody who has good ideas.Lilani said:
I have been thinking for a while now something like reforms towards how the student learns. Another thing would be gearing the system to not force them to take classes like Trigonometry or Chemistry if they don't need to. Early in schooling (elementary/primary, 5-10), you should railroad them through all the stuff they will need no matter what, then as they enter secondary/middle-high school, gear what courses they take by what careers they may want to pursue; the courses, both core and elective, help towards learning about and the matters of what career(s) they're intersted in, plus electives they may be interested in that don't apply to they're career plans. Tangential learning would also be big, to make sure directionless students can learn what interests them and get FUFILLMENT, what some pupils lack.
This is very reasonable. Having people work to try and get out of any holes they might be in so they don't need welfare is alright. Some might not make it out, but it helps to hold down a job, finish education, and try.Digitaldreamer7 said:
As someone on the left, I'd rather it'd be an incentive to work to get a little extra welfare when in bad situations rather than cutting it off for those who don't work, because some disabled people, like those with forms of muscular dystrophy, just can't work at all, but to move people who can work towards working and getting them to try and finish they're education is never a bad thing.
Disability is completely different. Welfare should dump people abusing the system, welfare is there for normal folks who have fallen on hard times, it shouldn't be abuse by people who refuse to help themselves.Lear said:
Precisely. Those who abuse welfare or just live on it and don't help themselves drag down the system and that sometimes leads to overzealous politicans trying to stamp out all welfare for a certain group in a legislative carpet bombing rather than actually helping. As much as helping people is excellent, a bit of pragmatisim is necessary to make sure it runs as best as possible and for the benefit of those who deserve it and are willing to get out of whatever mess they're in.Digitaldreamer7 said:
While it would be great to see more people stay in school, especially given the outlook for the future of the job market, I'm not sure how you would ever enforce this without being too intrusive. This goes double for rural or impoverished areas, where the average age for entry into the work force is much lower than the rest of the country. Not every home situation is the same. I suppose we should try to fix the social safety net first, you know, get on the road toward making sure that everyone has access to clean food and water/modern communications technology/safe infrastructure/quality housing/employment opportunities if they wish to seek them out.
You know what fine, Kid's can drop out. But I want something that those who choose to may not under that of the rarest of circumstances get any kind of welfare. They can get health care, but since they apparently aren't willing to put the work in for their future career, it's clear they don't care enough for their own well being.TheDarkEricDraven said:
And also I'm a pacifist, I hate war and all that comes with it, so I don't believe in kids joining the military and it breaks my heart that all my friends are going into the military and a good deal of them are going to very hot areas. So stop using that their old enough to die crap on me. I just want people to be able to support themselves with out government aid. I don't think the government should have to make kids stay in school but it's clear that so many are doing it they are gonna possibly have to in hope to improve things.
In all honesty I think it's useless no matter what. This generation of youth is sad, I know I was part of it. If you think that we should just allow the nation's youth to destroy their futures go ahead. Me arguing with you on these forums accomplishes nothing. If you wanna reply to this come up with a solution to anything and just don't say it's taking away our freedom because people are taking advantage of that freedom everyday and a lot of people are paying for it.
Disability is completely different. Welfare should dump people abusing the system, welfare is there for normal folks who have fallen on hard times, it shouldn't be abuse by people who refuse to help themselves.[/quote]
Precisely. Those who abuse welfare or just live on it and don't help themselves drag down the system and that sometimes leads to overzealous politicans trying to stamp out all welfare for a certain group in a legislative carpet bombing rather than actually helping. As much as helping people is excellent, a bit of pragmatisim is necessary to make sure it runs as best as possible and for the benefit of those who deserve it and are willing to get out of whatever mess they're in.[/quote]
Haha, the common sense group. Thank you, thank you all. This kind of thinking may actually produce a functioning society one day.
Precisely. Those who abuse welfare or just live on it and don't help themselves drag down the system and that sometimes leads to overzealous politicans trying to stamp out all welfare for a certain group in a legislative carpet bombing rather than actually helping. As much as helping people is excellent, a bit of pragmatisim is necessary to make sure it runs as best as possible and for the benefit of those who deserve it and are willing to get out of whatever mess they're in.[/quote]
Haha, the common sense group. Thank you, thank you all. This kind of thinking may actually produce a functioning society one day.